2015 study on school punishment: black students get criminalized, whites get medicated & therapy

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:All of the above PLUS parent choices and level of involvement. Everyone blames schools, but the school is only half of the child's life (and half the problem). If the parent isn't advocating for their child, pushing for help and services, providing support at home, and seeking out therapies, the school can only do so much.

Sorry, this isn't always the case. I gave the example of the autistic boy above. My sister was in a poor area due to her job. While she isn't poor, all around her were. The school was totally responsible for the failure! They dislike allocating extremely limited resources to address problems properly. Behavioral problems take money to solve! If parents cannot control behavior than therapy is required....which costs $$$.

Parents should not have to advocate that much! Poor people don't have the luxury to continuously advocate for their children. They often have inflexible work schedules.

Sorry, but it sounds like that was exactly the case. Your sister wasn't happy with the school's support, so she moved her child.

Furthermore, advocating for your child is not "a luxury", it's your job as a parent. You can't do that or don't want to do that, don't have children.

I almost Hate people like you. People who have no idea what it's like to have any experience outside of their very own narrow perspective people. People like you who don't understand that sometimes life can change on a dime and your circumstances today may not be ur circumstances the day after.PITY on you!
I hope to God that you never suffer a devastating medical catastrophe, job loss, family separation or of some other unforeseen change in circumstance that turns your world up side down. Then again maybe that's what it will take for you to understand that a lot of things that a lot of us especially middle-class people have arecluxuries to those who are struggling in poverty.

You make a whole lot of assumptions about someone whom you know nothing about. I have suffered my share of devastation, unfortunately. However, I'm not sure what any of that has to do with the topic at hand.

You just don't get it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:All of the above PLUS parent choices and level of involvement. Everyone blames schools, but the school is only half of the child's life (and half the problem). If the parent isn't advocating for their child, pushing for help and services, providing support at home, and seeking out therapies, the school can only do so much.

Sorry, this isn't always the case. I gave the example of the autistic boy above. My sister was in a poor area due to her job. While she isn't poor, all around her were. The school was totally responsible for the failure! They dislike allocating extremely limited resources to address problems properly. Behavioral problems take money to solve! If parents cannot control behavior than therapy is required....which costs $$$.

Parents should not have to advocate that much! Poor people don't have the luxury to continuously advocate for their children. They often have inflexible work schedules.

Sorry, but it sounds like that was exactly the case. Your sister wasn't happy with the school's support, so she moved her child.

Furthermore, advocating for your child is not "a luxury", it's your job as a parent. You can't do that or don't want to do that, don't have children.

Yes, the "accountability argument." Works every time doesn't it?

Aye-- what PP is noting is that poor folks have limited time and resources to advocate effectively. They struggle to replicate the suburban stay at home mom militaristic PTAs that make sure their kids school have healthy snacks, better programs, and yoga. They also have very limited resources to fund raise.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:All of the above PLUS parent choices and level of involvement. Everyone blames schools, but the school is only half of the child's life (and half the problem). If the parent isn't advocating for their child, pushing for help and services, providing support at home, and seeking out therapies, the school can only do so much.

Sorry, this isn't always the case. I gave the example of the autistic boy above. My sister was in a poor area due to her job. While she isn't poor, all around her were. The school was totally responsible for the failure! They dislike allocating extremely limited resources to address problems properly. Behavioral problems take money to solve! If parents cannot control behavior than therapy is required....which costs $$$.

Parents should not have to advocate that much! Poor people don't have the luxury to continuously advocate for their children. They often have inflexible work schedules.

Sorry, but it sounds like that was exactly the case. Your sister wasn't happy with the school's support, so she moved her child.

Furthermore, advocating for your child is not "a luxury", it's your job as a parent. You can't do that or don't want to do that, don't have children.

Yes, the "accountability argument." Works every time doesn't it?

Aye-- what PP is noting is that poor folks have limited time and resources to advocate effectively. They struggle to replicate the suburban stay at home mom militaristic PTAs that make sure their kids school have healthy snacks, better programs, and yoga. They also have very limited resources to fund raise.

And when black parents do advocate for their kids they get labeled as "entitled", or "angry", and these labels are used as an excuse for being even more punitive to their kids.

[Anonymous]

The parents have to consent to therapy and pay for medication. For a variety of reasons, they often either don't or can't. I saw this firsthand as the white parent of an ADHD boy in a DC charter. The parents of Hispanic or black boys with the same issues often were working multiple jobs or odd hours or both. It was/is hard enough for me and my DH to get to all of the therapy and doctor's appointments (ADHD meds are highly regulated and you have to pick up a physical prescription every month). I can only imagine how hard it is for parents working multiple jobs to do it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP here

I have actually seen this in action growing up. I grew up in a very diverse neighborhood in Queens, NY. My elementary school was about 20/40/40 asian/white/black & hispanic. In 5th grade, I got into an argument with a black kid from a different class. I started it by making fun of his sister, who I actually had a crush on (I'm Irish). We ended up fighting during lunch one day. I was sent home and was allowed to come back the next day. They sent a letter to my parents and essentially gave me a warning. The black kid, who was really more of a quiet guy who kept to himself and who was very smart since he was in the gifted program (like me), got expelled. This was during the middle of the school year.

Later on in HS, I saw the kid again on an opposing basketball team. He remembered me and we actually became friends. But the expulsion had a severe impact on him. After being expelled, he ended up going to an elementary school primarily made up of "troubled youths." No more gifted program. He got into more trouble as he fell in with the wrong crowd. Despite this, according to him at the time, he scored well enough on city-wide HS entrance exams to get into some of the better HSs in NYC ( I didn't), but they would not accept him because of his prior school record. He ended up going to one of the worst HSs in the city (which was his zone school unfortunately). JR year he was busted with weed at his school and they arrested him for possession. He did 6 months time.

I am facebook friends with him now, but from what I can tell, 10 years out of HS, he has multiple kids and doesn't seem to have a stable job. Hes a grown man and made his choices. But still, I wonder sometimes what would have happened if he never got suspended. I have no idea how that impacts a child. Especially while their brains are still developing.

What a sad story. They branded that kid for life and treated him like a felon when it came time to accept him to HS. Outrageous. Of course he internalized that shit.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here

I have actually seen this in action growing up. I grew up in a very diverse neighborhood in Queens, NY. My elementary school was about 20/40/40 asian/white/black & hispanic. In 5th grade, I got into an argument with a black kid from a different class. I started it by making fun of his sister, who I actually had a crush on (I'm Irish). We ended up fighting during lunch one day. I was sent home and was allowed to come back the next day. They sent a letter to my parents and essentially gave me a warning. The black kid, who was really more of a quiet guy who kept to himself and who was very smart since he was in the gifted program (like me), got expelled. This was during the middle of the school year.

Later on in HS, I saw the kid again on an opposing basketball team. He remembered me and we actually became friends. But the expulsion had a severe impact on him. After being expelled, he ended up going to an elementary school primarily made up of "troubled youths." No more gifted program. He got into more trouble as he fell in with the wrong crowd. Despite this, according to him at the time, he scored well enough on city-wide HS entrance exams to get into some of the better HSs in NYC ( I didn't), but they would not accept him because of his prior school record. He ended up going to one of the worst HSs in the city (which was his zone school unfortunately). JR year he was busted with weed at his school and they arrested him for possession. He did 6 months time.

I am facebook friends with him now, but from what I can tell, 10 years out of HS, he has multiple kids and doesn't seem to have a stable job. Hes a grown man and made his choices. But still, I wonder sometimes what would have happened if he never got suspended. I have no idea how that impacts a child. Especially while their brains are still developing.

What a sad story. They branded that kid for life and treated him like a felon when it came time to accept him to HS. Outrageous. Of course he internalized that shit.

I believe he did. I wonder how many kids in the "troubled youth" school really deserved to be there for something as basic as a fight. I wonder how many black teens end up with a record before they take their SATs. Its extremely hard for people with a record to obtain employment. In some cases it effects your ability to go to certain colleges or trade schools.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:"Black students are more likely to be punished with suspensions, expulsions or referrals to law enforcement, a phenomenon that helps funnel kids into the criminal justice system. Meanwhile, white kids are more likely to be pushed into special education services or receive medical and psychological treatment for their perceived misbehaviors, according to a study released last week in the journal Sociology of Education."

I notice that the articles don't say anything about controlling for the nature of the offense.

If blacks are more likely to do things that deserve suspensions, expulsions, or referrals to law enforcement - e.g., assault, drug use/possession, carrying weapons - then it is appropriate that they are more likely to receive suspensions, expulsions, or referrals to law enforcement.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:"Black students are more likely to be punished with suspensions, expulsions or referrals to law enforcement, a phenomenon that helps funnel kids into the criminal justice system. Meanwhile, white kids are more likely to be pushed into special education services or receive medical and psychological treatment for their perceived misbehaviors, according to a study released last week in the journal Sociology of Education."

I notice that the articles don't say anything about controlling for the nature of the offense.

If blacks are more likely to do things that deserve suspensions, expulsions, or referrals to law enforcement - e.g., assault, drug use/possession, carrying weapons - then it is appropriate that they are more likely to receive suspensions, expulsions, or referrals to law enforcement.

Both articles mention controlling for the offense.

[Anonymous]

It's because of white people and prejudice that black people don't get married. Then black kids grow up in poor unstable homes without strong male role models causing schools to expell black kids whenever there is a problem.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The parents have to consent to therapy and pay for medication. For a variety of reasons, they often either don't or can't. I saw this firsthand as the white parent of an ADHD boy in a DC charter. The parents of Hispanic or black boys with the same issues often were working multiple jobs or odd hours or both. It was/is hard enough for me and my DH to get to all of the therapy and doctor's appointments (ADHD meds are highly regulated and you have to pick up a physical prescription every month). I can only imagine how hard it is for parents working multiple jobs to do it.

I think this plays a role as does the fact that seeking help for problems like ADD is more shunned by Hispanic and Black families. Culturally, I see there is more of the mindset still of they just need a good beating and it will straighten them out and of course that doesn't work.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It's because of white people and prejudice that black people don't get married. Then black kids grow up in poor unstable homes without strong male role models causing schools to expell black kids whenever there is a problem.

I don't see not getting married as the problem but I do see having multiple children with multiple fathers without financial and mental stability by the mother as the problem.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:All of the above PLUS parent choices and level of involvement. Everyone blames schools, but the school is only half of the child's life (and half the problem). If the parent isn't advocating for their child, pushing for help and services, providing support at home, and seeking out therapies, the school can only do so much.

Sorry, this isn't always the case. I gave the example of the autistic boy above. My sister was in a poor area due to her job. While she isn't poor, all around her were. The school was totally responsible for the failure! They dislike allocating extremely limited resources to address problems properly. Behavioral problems take money to solve! If parents cannot control behavior than therapy is required....which costs $$$.

Parents should not have to advocate that much! Poor people don't have the luxury to continuously advocate for their children. They often have inflexible work schedules.

Sorry, but it sounds like that was exactly the case. Your sister wasn't happy with the school's support, so she moved her child.

Furthermore, advocating for your child is not "a luxury", it's your job as a parent. You can't do that or don't want to do that, don't have children.

It is the job of the school to follow an IEP, a parent should not be in the school ever single week showing them where they are failing.

[Anonymous]

A Blair student wrote about how different white kids are treated vs. black kids. For example, just simply walking down the hallway, white kids can go anywhere they want. A black kid is stopped and question about where he is going/what he is doing.

If middle school black kids are loud, they are trouble and often disciplined. If middle school white kids are loud they are asked to settle down.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:"Black students are more likely to be punished with suspensions, expulsions or referrals to law enforcement, a phenomenon that helps funnel kids into the criminal justice system. Meanwhile, white kids are more likely to be pushed into special education services or receive medical and psychological treatment for their perceived misbehaviors, according to a study released last week in the journal Sociology of Education."

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/racial-disparities-american-schools_55b67572e4b0074ba5a576c1

http://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2015-07/ps-swh072215.php

The actual paper is behind a paywall, but from the abstract, it seems to me that the study did not look at kids' discipline by race, but rather schools' and school districts' discipline by racial, ethnic, and economic composition.

In this article, the author examines how school- and district-level racial/ethnic and socioeconomic compositions influence schools’ use of different types of criminalized and medicalized school discipline. Using a large data set containing information on over 60,000 schools in over 6,000 districts, the authors uses multilevel modeling and a group-mean modeling strategy to answer several important questions about school discipline. First, how do school- and district-level racial and ethnic compositions influence criminalized school discipline and medicalization? Second, how do levels of school and district economic disadvantage influence criminalized school discipline and medicalization? Third, how does district-level economic disadvantage moderate the relationship between school racial/ethnic composition and criminalized school discipline and medicalization? The results generally support hypotheses that schools and districts with relatively larger minority and poor populations are more likely to implement criminalized disciplinary policies, including suspensions and expulsion or police referrals or arrests, and less likely to medicalize students through behavioral plans put in place through laws such as Section 504 of the Rehabilitation Act and the Individuals with Disabilities Education Act. However, results from cross-level interaction models suggest that district-level economic disadvantage moderates the influence of school racial composition on criminalized school discipline and medicalization. http://soe.sagepub.com/content/88/3/181

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

I notice that the articles don't say anything about controlling for the nature of the offense.

If blacks are more likely to do things that deserve suspensions, expulsions, or referrals to law enforcement - e.g., assault, drug use/possession, carrying weapons - then it is appropriate that they are more likely to receive suspensions, expulsions, or referrals to law enforcement.

Previous studies have found that black kids and white kids are treated differently for the same minor offense. I'm not going to track down the studies, but the author of the paper that is the subject of the articles OP linked to does mention them:

http://news.psu.edu/story/363597/2015/07/22/research/schools-higher-black-minority-populations-call-cops-not-docs

The study builds on prior research that looked at how educators assessed the behavior of individual students based on race.

"The bulk of my earlier research looked at how, for the same minor levels of misbehaviors -- for example, classroom disruptions, talking back -- white kids tend to get viewed as having ADHD, or having some sort of behavioral problem, while black kids are viewed as being unruly and unwilling to learn," said Ramey.