What is leave abuse?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I think 6:39 is 6:18's former manager!

Snort

[Anonymous]

That makes no sense. If you've accrued leave, it's not "abuse" to take every Friday off assuming it doesn't affect your productivity. It's your leave. Abusing sick leave is a whole different issue.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:That makes no sense. If you've accrued leave, it's not "abuse" to take every Friday off assuming it doesn't affect your productivity. It's your leave. Abusing sick leave is a whole different issue.

If you call in sick every friday, it is leave abuse. I work for a private company; I do not get sick leave and vacation, but rather PTO. Much harder to abuse that. For me leave abuse would be taking leave in 15 minute intervals when my manager wanted to talk to me .

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:That makes no sense. If you've accrued leave, it's not "abuse" to take every Friday off assuming it doesn't affect your productivity. It's your leave. Abusing sick leave is a whole different issue.

If you call in sick every friday, it is leave abuse. I work for a private company; I do not get sick leave and vacation, but rather PTO. Much harder to abuse that. For me leave abuse would be taking leave in 15 minute intervals when my manager wanted to talk to me .

But callng in sick is sick leave. AL (at least in my DHs agency) is his to use however he chooses. We knew an Agent that took almost every Friday off for a year right before he retired. He earned that leave. That's not abuse.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Leave abuse means a suspicious pattern of calling in sick on certain days (usually Monday or Friday) or asking for time off for inconsequential matters. In other words, taking leave you do not need.

This is absurd, asking leave for inconsequential matters? Leave us yours to take for whatever reason you want. And, who would judge whether a request is consequential enough?

No, leave is not yours to take whenever you want. Sick leave is for when you are genuinely ill. Annual leave is granted for annual vacations, planned in advance, in accord with when the employer can spare employees without detriment to the business mission. There is no type of leave that you can take at will, in drips and drabs, for your own personal convenience whenever you want. Leave is a privilege, not a right.

Moreover, employees are granted a number of leave hours per year or per pay period. When employees routinely use up all those hours, plus more, they are abusing leave if they do so without any justification such as chronic illness.

I have employees who ask for leave, every single week, for things like:

Preparation for the church picnic
Attend a personal growth seminar
Holiday shopping
Spa appointment
Baking


If all these requests were granted, nothing would get done. That's leave abuse. If you want to take a mental health day once a year, fine. But once a week? Every Friday and Monday? Leave every Wednesday after lunch? Come in late every Tuesday morning?

I'm not talking about FMLA, chronic illness, doctor's appointments, or alternate work schedules. I'm talking about clear patterns of abuse.

These are all completely valid reasons to take annual leave.

[Anonymous]

6:39 - where is your source for what reason is "allowed" for taking annual leave? I've never heard of such restrictions! And I've never heard of staff having to PROVIDE a reason for using their annual leave. Some may do so, but I've never been unde the impression that it's required.

At my agency, under three different managers over the course of 10 years, the only requirement is to request use of your annual leave in advance. The manager can approve or deny the request, but it has nothing to do with HOW you will be spending your time on annual leave (e.g., church picnic, attending a seminar, etc.).

Sick leave is a different story as PPs have already said; plenty of restrictions for using that type of leave.

[Anonymous]

8:11 here again.

Here is OPM guidance on use of annual leave:
http://www.opm.gov/policy-data-oversight/pay-leave/leave-administration/fact-sheets/annual-leave/

As you can see, 6:39, annual leave is for much more than "annual vacations."

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:6:39 - where is your source for what reason is "allowed" for taking annual leave? I've never heard of such restrictions! And I've never heard of staff having to PROVIDE a reason for using their annual leave. Some may do so, but I've never been unde the impression that it's required.

At my agency, under three different managers over the course of 10 years, the only requirement is to request use of your annual leave in advance. The manager can approve or deny the request, but it has nothing to do with HOW you will be spending your time on annual leave (e.g., church picnic, attending a seminar, etc.).

Sick leave is a different story as PPs have already said; plenty of restrictions for using that type of leave.

Yes, 6:39 seems like an awful manager.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Leave abuse means a suspicious pattern of calling in sick on certain days (usually Monday or Friday) or asking for time off for inconsequential matters. In other words, taking leave you do not need.

This is absurd, asking leave for inconsequential matters? Leave us yours to take for whatever reason you want. And, who would judge whether a request is consequential enough?

No, leave is not yours to take whenever you want. Sick leave is for when you are genuinely ill. Annual leave is granted for annual vacations, planned in advance, in accord with when the employer can spare employees without detriment to the business mission. There is no type of leave that you can take at will, in drips and drabs, for your own personal convenience whenever you want. Leave is a privilege, not a right.

Moreover, employees are granted a number of leave hours per year or per pay period. When employees routinely use up all those hours, plus more, they are abusing leave if they do so without any justification such as chronic illness.

I have employees who ask for leave, every single week, for things like:

Preparation for the church picnic
Attend a personal growth seminar
Holiday shopping
Spa appointment
Baking


If all these requests were granted, nothing would get done. That's leave abuse. If you want to take a mental health day once a year, fine. But once a week? Every Friday and Monday? Leave every Wednesday after lunch? Come in late every Tuesday morning?

I'm not talking about FMLA, chronic illness, doctor's appointments, or alternate work schedules. I'm talking about clear patterns of abuse.

You have to be kidding!!! As long as I get the leave requests in advance, I could not care less what my folks use their annual leave for. After all, if I REALLY need that person, I can deny the request. But my folks ususally work out coverage among themselves before I get the request. I wonder what your subs think about you as a manager.


Signed,

Manager at an agency that is regularly cited as one of the best to work for.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
Annual leave is granted for annual vacations, planned in advance, in accord with when the employer can spare employees without detriment to the business mission. There is no type of leave that you can take at will, in drips and drabs, for your own personal convenience whenever you want. Leave is a privilege, not a right.

That is just....wrong.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Annual leave is granted for annual vacations, planned in advance, in accord with when the employer can spare employees without detriment to the business mission. There is no type of leave that you can take at will, in drips and drabs, for your own personal convenience whenever you want. Leave is a privilege, not a right.

That is just....wrong.

Actually, leave is something you earn. You can take it as you decide. But, just with warning. I can decide I want my 24 days of leave to be in fridays off for 24 weeks; it is my choice. My boss can say no, of course.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Leave abuse means a suspicious pattern of calling in sick on certain days (usually Monday or Friday) or asking for time off for inconsequential matters. In other words, taking leave you do not need.

This is absurd, asking leave for inconsequential matters? Leave us yours to take for whatever reason you want. And, who would judge whether a request is consequential enough?

No, leave is not yours to take whenever you want. Sick leave is for when you are genuinely ill. Annual leave is granted for annual vacations, planned in advance, in accord with when the employer can spare employees without detriment to the business mission. There is no type of leave that you can take at will, in drips and drabs, for your own personal convenience whenever you want. Leave is a privilege, not a right.

Moreover, employees are granted a number of leave hours per year or per pay period. When employees routinely use up all those hours, plus more, they are abusing leave if they do so without any justification such as chronic illness.

I have employees who ask for leave, every single week, for things like:

Preparation for the church picnic
Attend a personal growth seminar
Holiday shopping
Spa appointment
Baking


If all these requests were granted, nothing would get done. That's leave abuse. If you want to take a mental health day once a year, fine. But once a week? Every Friday and Monday? Leave every Wednesday after lunch? Come in late every Tuesday morning?

I'm not talking about FMLA, chronic illness, doctor's appointments, or alternate work schedules. I'm talking about clear patterns of abuse.

You have to be kidding!!! As long as I get the leave requests in advance, I could not care less what my folks use their annual leave for. After all, if I REALLY need that person, I can deny the request. But my folks ususally work out coverage among themselves before I get the request. I wonder what your subs think about you as a manager.


Signed,

Manager at an agency that is regularly cited as one of the best to work for.

+1. I'm in the private sector and we can use our leave for whatever we want. Of course, it would be leave abuse if we were using sick leave to take a vacation instead of using up our vacation time. As long as we request at least a week in advance and staffing needs are met, it's never turned down. People use their vacation time for church picnics, holiday shopping, hair appointments, or just because, all the time. Let's stop treating people like babies and start treating them like grown-ups.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Annual leave is granted for annual vacations, planned in advance, in accord with when the employer can spare employees without detriment to the business mission. There is no type of leave that you can take at will, in drips and drabs, for your own personal convenience whenever you want. Leave is a privilege, not a right.

That is just....wrong.

Actually, leave is something you earn. You can take it as you decide. But, just with warning. I can decide I want my 24 days of leave to be in fridays off for 24 weeks; it is my choice. My boss can say no, of course.

Agreed. I don't see what the issue is if someone gets approved to have every Friday off. I do see why it could be an issue if they call in sick every Friday. Two totally different things. I had a former coworker who would take 1 or 2 sick days after almost every vacation/holiday. That's a bit of an abuse.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Leave abuse means a suspicious pattern of calling in sick on certain days (usually Monday or Friday) or asking for time off for inconsequential matters. In other words, taking leave you do not need.

This is absurd, asking leave for inconsequential matters? Leave us yours to take for whatever reason you want. And, who would judge whether a request is consequential enough?

No, leave is not yours to take whenever you want. Sick leave is for when you are genuinely ill. Annual leave is granted for annual vacations, planned in advance, in accord with when the employer can spare employees without detriment to the business mission. There is no type of leave that you can take at will, in drips and drabs, for your own personal convenience whenever you want. Leave is a privilege, not a right.

Moreover, employees are granted a number of leave hours per year or per pay period. When employees routinely use up all those hours, plus more, they are abusing leave if they do so without any justification such as chronic illness.

I have employees who ask for leave, every single week, for things like:

Preparation for the church picnic
Attend a personal growth seminar
Holiday shopping
Spa appointment
Baking


If all these requests were granted, nothing would get done. That's leave abuse. If you want to take a mental health day once a year, fine. But once a week? Every Friday and Monday? Leave every Wednesday after lunch? Come in late every Tuesday morning?

I'm not talking about FMLA, chronic illness, doctor's appointments, or alternate work schedules. I'm talking about clear patterns of abuse.

Wow, I wouldn't want to work for you. Leave is yours to take for WHATEVER reason you want and it is none of your manager's business. Now, I am assuming the requests are approved but that is a different matter. As long as your time off does not interfere with your work, it is yours to use. You sound like a terrible manager.

[Anonymous]

Not fed but where I work leave is abuse is all the things mentioned above please playing the system.

For example there is a rule about short-term disability. I think it is more than 20 days. We had someone who would take sick leave for 20 days, then work for a day or two or take annual leave and then go back on sick leave for another 20 days so he didn't have to file for short term disability. Everntually he was dinged for it.

BTW for us sick leave also covers well appointments. I know lots of people to take a day or two of sick leave a year to get all their medical appointments out of the way. But there are also those people who take the day off for one appointment. Unless it is a colonoscopy or the like, it should not take 8 hours to get a physical. So that would be leave abuse.

We also have something called family leave and there are strict reules around it. Can't use it for well visits but can use it to take family members to the doctor when unwell. Can't use it for planned school closures but can use it for unplanned ones like snow days. We had someone try to take family leave b/c he needed to be home for a roof repair. I guess that roof protects his family but that is about the extent of the connection. That is leave abuse.