How to intervene

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The dilemma I am having with CPS is that there is not neglect or physical abuse. I will try to report him for verbal abuse, but I don't know how far that will go.

Talking to a lawyer is probably our best, realistic option now.

No maternal family contact... brother successfully cut them off a long time ago, and they have not fought it.

I would love to let her come live with us. I am worried the state might just take her away and put her in foster care before placing her with family. That's a risk we'll just have to take though.

Call CPS. The fact that he's a suicidal alcoholic should be reason enough for them to investigate and offer services.

[Anonymous]

Okay, thanks all. We're (both my mother and I) are going to do what we can by calling CPS and trying to get in touch with my brother's wife command. Maybe we'll be fortunate and she can live with one of us.

There is no negotiating with him, so it will have to be the hard way or no way at all.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Okay, thanks all. We're (both my mother and I) are going to do what we can by calling CPS and trying to get in touch with my brother's wife command. Maybe we'll be fortunate and she can live with one of us.

There is no negotiating with him, so it will have to be the hard way or no way at all.

Your neice is lucky to have you and your mom really trying to look out for her. Your brother is lucky too, even though he can't see that right now.

A few things:

1. You do NOT only need to have physical abuse or neglect to call CPS. If you can detail the impacts on your neice (i.e. not sleeping, parentified (she takes care of your brother in ways a 10yr old should not have to care for their parent), whatever signs there are of stress, anything that her teachers say about how she's doing in school... if you can detail the impacts of your brother's verbal abuse and the stress of his alcoholism/suicidal behaviors, you may indeed have enough for a CPS report. It is MISinformation that someone else is spreading that it has to only be physical abuse or neglect to get an investigation. The key is in detailing how the parent's behaviors are negatively impacting the child (and what negative results there are for the child).

And indeed, most CPS systems prefer working with the family first and looking for family placements before removing a child and putting them in foster care.

2. Does your mom get to talk to your neice alone much? Does she get to ask her how she's doing, how she feels when her dad goes off the rails, and assure her that she's a great kid and that the family loves both her and her dad? I say this because whatever path you take (and I am SO glad you are taking some path to help her), at some point your brother is probably going to try to take it out on her or blame her (or your mom). She's old enough, she needs to know (even if it's not said directly) that she's an awesome kid, that family is proud of her, everyone wants her to succeed, wants her dad to succeed (even if it's not looking good), and just general positive feedback to counter any negative that she's already getting in the vebal abuse and may get more of if her dad realizes steps are being taken.

3. Your mom needs a safety plan for her and your neice. I know your brother hasn't been physcially abusive yet, but if he's doing this badly, you just never know. Your mom needs a plan of how, if ever necessary, she's going to get your neice physically out of the house and herself out and get to safety. Hopefully she'll never need to use it, but she should know just in case, if he already gets bad enough that he kicks her out and threatens suicide.

4. You are SO SMART to consult a lawyer as well. And to try to contact the mom, although be careful, what's deployed mom's relationship with your brother? Would she ever tell him what you guys are asking about? Make sure she's on your side and understand what you're worried about, as much as you can try to. But the laywer idea is a really good one too, in terms of understanding how your brother's rights as her father are balanced against her wellbeing/concerns about her wellbeing.

I wish you luck OP, most of all because your neice does need help. Your brother does too, but he may not be in a place to receive it right now, which is really really sad. But kids need interventions, they can't fix these situations themselves. Thank you for being a great aunt and your mom for being such an involved grandmother. Wishing you all safety and somehow a much better place soon.

[Anonymous]

my #4 above wasn't very clear - I mean when you contact your brother's deployed wife, be careful and make sure she shares your concerns. What is her relationshiop with your brother like? With your neice? Just be careful, and if you don't know what she's like with your neice, make sure your mom asks your neice about her relationship with her deployed mom/stepmom. You just want to have the best heads up you can if the mom would NOT support you guys trying to intervene.

The lawyer is a great idea, and if you're feeling really ready to research, you should try speaking to an AAG (Assistant Attorney General) or whoever the lawyers for CPS are in your town. Sometimes you can do this by finding out where CPS cases are heard and just going down and trying to flag down a lawyer to run the situation by them and ask for advice or referrals. If I didn't already know a lot about CPS, this is what I"d do to understand my full range of options. Sometimes private attorneys don't know as much of the details as they need to (if they don't work with CPS regularly) about the subtleties of a situation like this and the legalities. But it's still a really good idea to have your own laywer that you work with as well. If this goes a legal route, you'll absolutely need your own lawyer.

[Anonymous]

I'm glad you are calling CPS OP. I hope your situation works out for the best. When CPS interviews you they will ask about substance abuse and can compel him to go for a drug & alcohol screen. They can suggest treatment. So you know, it may take more than one call and lots of documenting for CPS to take action. How recent was the suicide threat?

I wouldn't recommend the lawyer route unless you are willing to litigate (30K plus retainer) gives you an idea for the costs involved.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I'm glad you are calling CPS OP. I hope your situation works out for the best. When CPS interviews you they will ask about substance abuse and can compel him to go for a drug & alcohol screen. They can suggest treatment. So you know, it may take more than one call and lots of documenting for CPS to take action. How recent was the suicide threat?

I wouldn't recommend the lawyer route unless you are willing to litigate (30K plus retainer) gives you an idea for the costs involved.

But you should sit down NOW with a lawyer to find out the legal landscape, what costs might be involved, what your chances are, etc. Most lawyers with either do this for free or do the cosultation for a one time, up front cost and then if you retain them, there are additional costs. I do not recommend waiting to talk to a lawyer at all, although you may find it's not the time to actually hire one now. But you should get an idea of what you're dealing with in your jurisdiction and what your options are NOW.

[Anonymous]

I just asked my sister (DC social worker for 6 years) about whether they'd place her with family or a certified foster home if they do decide to take her out of her house. She said that DC has an expedited process to help you get certified, sometimes just a day or two, so the child should be able to quickly come to you if it comes to that. Good luck OP. That child needs help for sure.

[Anonymous]

OP here. This situation is taking place between three states, frankly (not going to say which even though this is an anonymous forum).

I called CPS. Things came to a head though on their own. My brother had a hypotensive episode when he was drinking late at night. 911 was called (by my mom), he went to the ER, the dominoes fell... at least for now, she is safe with my mother until Monday. We will see what happens then.

CPS did assure that despite the distance challenges, they will try to place her with family.

To the question about his wife, as it turns out she volunteered for this deployment (to get away from him) and gave him an ultimatum before she left to work stuff out. We just found this out during the hospital visit.

Thanks for the reminder to a PP about speaking well about her father especially. I think that is something is difficult for my parents (and me) to keep in mind since we've been witness to his destruction for 20 years now. I think my mom is pretty good about telling her that she is strong, capable, and smart.

& thanks again for all the advice, everyone.

[Anonymous]

Good luck, OP. You sound like a wonderful aunt. I truly hope you are able to bring this girl into your home and let her be a 10-year-old child again. What she has seen she cannot unsee, but I certainly hope that with love and attention and time she can find happiness and a feeling of safety. I think the way you talk about your brother to her is important--let her know that you believe strongly that he needs help but that someone can be sick and hurting and we can still love them. Sometimes they need more help than we can give them--it is important that she know she has done everything right and nothing wrong. My guess is that she has been trying to protect him and herself for so long she has taken on the burden of what happens to him. She is probably very confused about her loyalties, her obligations, her feelings. This is her only surviving parent, so this is even more complicated.

God bless you and good luck.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP here. This situation is taking place between three states, frankly (not going to say which even though this is an anonymous forum).

I called CPS. Things came to a head though on their own. My brother had a hypotensive episode when he was drinking late at night. 911 was called (by my mom), he went to the ER, the dominoes fell... at least for now, she is safe with my mother until Monday. We will see what happens then.

CPS did assure that despite the distance challenges, they will try to place her with family.

To the question about his wife, as it turns out she volunteered for this deployment (to get away from him) and gave him an ultimatum before she left to work stuff out. We just found this out during the hospital visit.

Thanks for the reminder to a PP about speaking well about her father especially. I think that is something is difficult for my parents (and me) to keep in mind since we've been witness to his destruction for 20 years now. I think my mom is pretty good about telling her that she is strong, capable, and smart.

& thanks again for all the advice, everyone.

Hi OP, I'm 05:14 above, SO GLAD you called CPS. But really, isn't it also mind-blowing how things "take care of themselves" in some ways. Given that you've been looking for a way to support your neice, IF your brother was going to be hospitalized, this was the time for it to happen. Facilitates everything in terms of intervening.

You don't have to give the details here, but hopefully your mom is making the most of this time that your brother isn't home. Is there a plan? Where can your neice go, or is your mom planning to just stay there with your neice and your brother? If your goal is to get her out, did CPS give you helpful info about what that can/would look like, and what else needs to happen? Has your mom assured your neice that you guys all see what's going on with her, and fully intent to support her? ANd yes, support her dad too (although that may not look like your neice wants it to, since she's so used to protecting him herself). Hopefully all these conversations are going on.

It sounds like you're doing an AMAZING job (and your mom too), and your neice is so so very lucky to have you as aunt and grandma. Thanks for the update, you're doing the right thing, and you're changing a young life for the better because of it. Maybe between your brother's wife's ultimatum and this, your brother may get a wake up call and start figuring out if he's ready to do some healing... but no one can wait for him re: your neice. She needs help now, and you guys are awesome to be giving her that help.

Wishing the best for you all! Please do update again if you can.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Good luck, OP. You sound like a wonderful aunt. I truly hope you are able to bring this girl into your home and let her be a 10-year-old child again. What she has seen she cannot unsee, but I certainly hope that with love and attention and time she can find happiness and a feeling of safety. I think the way you talk about your brother to her is important--let her know that you believe strongly that he needs help but that someone can be sick and hurting and we can still love them. Sometimes they need more help than we can give them--it is important that she know she has done everything right and nothing wrong. My guess is that she has been trying to protect him and herself for so long she has taken on the burden of what happens to him. She is probably very confused about her loyalties, her obligations, her feelings. This is her only surviving parent, so this is even more complicated.

God bless you and good luck.

Excellent points. All so very very true.

[Anonymous]

One other thought that I didn't see raised. . . if your niece stays with your brother (for whatever reason), is there anyone at her school that could help/be another adult she could talk to? A counselor? School psychologist?

A school counselor is also a mandated reporter and more voices speaking up for your niece will help. They would also be able to meet with her during the school day, when she is already away from her father.

I know those kinds of support staff are getting cut at schools and not every school has them, but it would be worth checking into. I had a counselor in middle school that was a life-saver.

[Anonymous]

The quick and dirty update is that my brother agreed to do inpatient rehab for 30 days. My mom will be staying at his house for now so she can take his daughter to her school daily while he is there. That's the deal that was struck between him and CPS. He is on his way there now.

Thanks so much for the advice about the school counselor. I will have my mom look into that. I am not optimistic about 30 days giving him what he needs to get better, but it's a start - and it gives us some time to try to build safety nets for his daughter. If we can find someone at the school who she can (and will) confide in, even if/when my mom leaves, there will be a lifeline there.