Is divorce ever NOT the answer?

[Anonymous]

intermittent explosive anger is associated with adult ADD.

Treatment with ADD drugs can help. Look up the list of adult ADD symptoms and consider whether your DH could fit the list.

[Anonymous]

Op what you may need to do is just live separately for awhile. That gives you a bit of time to see what being a part is like and it also gives him time to seek counseling and deal with his issues if he is going to. Don't feel you have to make any big decisions when you live apart - can you move in with family for a bit- even a couple months? or would he voluntarily live with friends/family for a couple months if he knows that one of you needs to move out? What you need first is space to think and to be safe.

After you have been apart for awhile you will have a different perspective on your situation and you can also better gauge the efforts he has made. Don't put the pressure on yourself right now to divorce is right or wrong for your family.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I frequently think divorce is not the answer. If there are kids involved, every effort should be made to stay together for their sake.

However, if one partner is physically abusive that goes right out the window. Divorce IS the answer. You should leave and stay away. Child visitation should be supervised until he has undgone substantial amounts of counseling.

Sorry. I know it's hard.

op here. I agree with this. I agree with you. In theory.

But I don't have proof of what has happened. Dh will deny it. He does not want a divorce at ALL. he thinks our problems are "not that bad" and that they are solvable. He used to say that I provoked him. After what happened recently, he has agreed to seek counseling and has been semi-proactive.

I am also scared. I am scared of what people will think of me if/when they find out. I am scared of what our friends will think, what my colleagues will think of me. I am scared of what he might do to keep the kids. he's good with them. If you asked my older one, I guarantee she will say she wants to be with her daddy all the time. he will fight for custody. without proof of abuse, i fell certain he will get it. and then i'll be worried about how he is with them (again, no abuse there, just rougher than i think he should be).

Honestly, I am trying to convince myself that its ok to stay. I am appreciating the honest feedback from everyone. Its just not that easy to walk out and start over. I wish it was. If I could make him leave and keep the kids here (to keep them in their safe place), I would do it in a heartbeat. If he agreed to divorce, or even to a separation, there would be no issue. The issue is that he will fight it. And he can fight.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:op here.

thank you so very much for your kindness and candor.

i contacted my old post-partum depression provider and told her a bit about the situation and she has provided several referrals specific to anger management/violence/men's issues. i have sent them by email, as DH has continued to say that he will go as soon as he finds someone who can help him with his specific issues (didn't want to see a general therapist; we were in couples therapy for 1 yr before birth of first child)

if there is a hope of raising children in a happy SAFE home, i will do my best to try to achieve it. my goal in life is to have secure, happy, well-adjusted children. i am very aware that our current home does not provide that. i am just trying to figure out if there is a way to achieve it, or if we have to divorce.

i worry about the legal stuff - if i move out, will he say i kidnapped the kids without his consent? will an iphone recording of his anger be admissible? if we leave the house, do i lose the house? [ i realize these seem like silly concerns, but as two dc people having somewhat prominent, important jobs, i am CERTAIN he will want none of his history to come out in the open.]

i appreciate the comments about communication. i have serious concerns about our ability to have a cordial relationship after a divorce.

This is why you need to talk to a lawyer. I don't know about the iphone, I think it depends on what state you are in. I googled and read that in VA you CAN record your own conversation, but you need to ask a lawyer. If you call 911 and just put the phone down on the counter, they will record what they hear. Also, let's say you happen to have a nanny cam, and accidentally happen to record your husband committing a crime by physically assaulting you (pushing you down on the floor?). Ask a lawyer if that is admissible.

[Anonymous]

Two kids with issues at your kids' school is not really a very good sample size. They could have been f'ed up anyway; some of it is genetic. I know a ton of really well-adjusted kids who are the products of divorces, some of them when they were very young. I also know some really screwed-up kids whose parents were together. My half-brother is 16 and the product of a pretty acrimonious divorce - he has no issues whatsoever. My daughter is the product of parents who split up while we were pregnant with her - she is a happy kid. I don't think anyone would or should tell you that it's better to stay with an abuser than divorce.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I frequently think divorce is not the answer. If there are kids involved, every effort should be made to stay together for their sake.

However, if one partner is physically abusive that goes right out the window. Divorce IS the answer. You should leave and stay away. Child visitation should be supervised until he has undgone substantial amounts of counseling.

Sorry. I know it's hard.

op here. I agree with this. I agree with you. In theory.

But I don't have proof of what has happened. Dh will deny it. He does not want a divorce at ALL. he thinks our problems are "not that bad" and that they are solvable. He used to say that I provoked him. After what happened recently, he has agreed to seek counseling and has been semi-proactive.

I am also scared. I am scared of what people will think of me if/when they find out. I am scared of what our friends will think, what my colleagues will think of me. I am scared of what he might do to keep the kids. he's good with them. If you asked my older one, I guarantee she will say she wants to be with her daddy all the time. he will fight for custody. without proof of abuse, i fell certain he will get it. and then i'll be worried about how he is with them (again, no abuse there, just rougher than i think he should be).

Honestly, I am trying to convince myself that its ok to stay. I am appreciating the honest feedback from everyone. Its just not that easy to walk out and start over. I wish it was. If I could make him leave and keep the kids here (to keep them in their safe place), I would do it in a heartbeat. If he agreed to divorce, or even to a separation, there would be no issue. The issue is that he will fight it. And he can fight.

OP, your posts are alarming to me for a number of reasons.

The first is that if your husband thinks your problems are "not that bad" and that you provoke him, what sort of solution does he imagine? That you will just "stop provoking him" or something? If he does not want to divorce, he needs to get his ass in therapy, go to couples counseling with you and demonstrate a real commitment to SOLVING the problems that (at least from your side) seem to be created by him.

The second is that your posts make it sound like you are afraid to try to leave him because your parents, your friends and your children will take his side. This is where a lawyer and a domestic violence counselor can help you. If you truly believe that your husband's anger issues can be resolved through counseling, then by all means, go to counseling. I am just skeptical that a person who blames their anger on you, who says they will seek counseling and does not, etc. will actually change their behavior.

[Anonymous]

Reread your posts, OP. What would you say to the woman who told you all this?

[Anonymous]

For me, the answer was clear when I looked at my kids and thought "Do I want them to act or be treated like this in twenty years?" Will I be happy if their lives are just like mine?" Because that's what will happen if you stay in this marriage.

[Anonymous]

But I don't have proof of what has happened. Dh will deny it.

Why do you need proof? You said he's good with the kids so just agree to have shared custody. Unless you are planning on becoming divorce lawyers' ATM machine, just work it out with him.

I don't understand why you want to alienate the father. It sounds like you are making excuses to stay with him and using the kids as your security blanket.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

But I don't have proof of what has happened. Dh will deny it.

Why do you need proof? You said he's good with the kids so just agree to have shared custody. Unless you are planning on becoming divorce lawyers' ATM machine, just work it out with him.

I don't understand why you want to alienate the father. It sounds like you are making excuses to stay with him and using the kids as your security blanket.

Are you really suggesting that a woman whose husband is physically abusive "just work it out"? Because WOW. That's bullshit.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:For me, the answer was clear when I looked at my kids and thought "Do I want them to act or be treated like this in twenty years?" Will I be happy if their lives are just like mine?" Because that's what will happen if you stay in this marriage.

for me, the answer was, "what would I want my daughter to do if this were HER life and HER husband?".

[Anonymous]

You're living in lala-land if you think he won't ever turn his temper toward your children. Most likely, you'll legally separate before a divorce. That is his time to work on himself and prove he can make changes that will allow him back into your life. Otherwise, staying together for the kids isn't good enough.

[Anonymous]

Divorce is never the answer unless you are being physically abused or if your spouse is a sociopath.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Divorce is never the answer unless you are being physically abused or if your spouse is a sociopath.

...as the OP is, whether she is willing to admit it or not.

Sometimes I think that people read the subject of the post but do not actually read the OP or any of the follow up posts.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Divorce is never the answer unless you are being physically abused or if your spouse is a sociopath.

...as the OP is, whether she is willing to admit it or not.

Sometimes I think that people read the subject of the post but do not actually read the OP or any of the follow up posts.

That PP constantly posts the same thing. I had a post where she said that not knowing I am a victim. She never apologized for being an ass.

Anyway, OP some practical advice for you from someone who has been there:

1) Do what will make you feel better about making it work. I recommend ADAPT the certified Fairfax program.
2) The next time this happens make sure there is proof - recording would be best. In VA the person has to know they are being recorded.
3) Call the police when it happens
4) Go to the doctor to have any injuries documented.
5) Pursue legal recourses (protective order, etc)

Do the above and you can limit contact to only about the kids (no manipulation) he will be forced by the system to get help and you will also get help.

Right now I never see my ex, only communicate regarding our child, and he is getting the help he needs. He has limited visitations and there have been anger outbursts, but no physical abuse. Regardless of whether I stayed and allowed to get myself hurt or left his impact on my child would be not good. At least now that I've left, he has less than 1/3 custody so I'm hoping minimal impact.