Fitting into Upper Income Neighborhood Or Where Should Live/School

[Anonymous]

TL;DR

[Anonymous]

We left Arlington, and it actually did seem to have much of the vibe you described. It's not old cars converted to biodiesel; it's tons of new Priuses mixed in with the BMWs. Lots of upscale green--Whole Foods, nice restaurants with lots of locally-grown foods, nice parks, smart growth.

We couldn't afford to stay, and some of it was wearing on us, though on the whole it was pretty lovely in a lot of ways. With your budget and outlook and commute and desire for good public schools, I think it would work out just fine.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:AU Park.

Its full of "mid 200" income couples.

You'll be dead center on the income range.

+1, and Glover Park.Good public schools, parks,quiet neighborhood. Our HHi is more like $130k and we fit in or at least nobody has to us to take a hike.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:AU Park.

Its full of "mid 200" income couples.

You'll be dead center on the income range.

+1, and Glover Park.Good public schools, parks,quiet neighborhood. Our HHi is more like $130k and we fit in or at least nobody has to us to take a hike.

Once the kids hit middle school, the private school tuition starts to take its toll if you're making less than $250,000. Or you can gamble on Deal and Wilson, which are not very good.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Not all of TP is wealthy hippies...it is a very bohemian environment. You could also look at downtown Silver Spring, there are homes under $1 million in a great, diverse environment. Plus you have MoCo schools.

The average income and demographics of silver spring vs north Arlington are VERY different...

[Anonymous]

Where do you live now? How about Capitol Hill?

[Anonymous]

Somebody in the other thread the OP referenced noted that many desirable neighborhoods are full of residents that were "grandfathered in" and could not now easily afford the houses they live in. So if you move into a $1 million house, there probably many families that bought their houses for half that a few years ago and are living a lifestyle well below what a $1 million house implies. So this would pose a favorable force on OP's concerns about being "outclassed" by neighbors.

[Anonymous]

How do you get that it takes 1 hour to go from Taky Park to Federal South. Metro says 30-35 min. Even driving would not be an hour.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I know this is something of a beaten dead horse, since it has been covered in many similar threads, such as:

http://www.dcurbanmom.com/jforum/posts/list/105/309642.page

But we have some variation on our perspective and were looking to solicit some input?

First our situation:

HHI: little over $200k, mid-career unlikely to rise anytime soon, both parents work full-time and commute to the southern side of DC.
Commute: Would like to keep it under 30 minutes to south DC (Capital South/National Stadium), so clearly need close-in neighborhood
Housing budget: $1M, though that would be for a move-in ready home, no resources for extensive renovation. Townhouse is fine.

At this point, we are typical upper middle parents in DC, but our perspective is a little different than some folks. Our philosophy is probably a little bohemian tiger mom, to mix metaphors and probably self-contradict. We want our kids to be happy and try to relax, but have high expectations for them for education. We tend to be organic and environmental (1st DC ate strictly organic until 3; lived for many years with no or only 1 car; even now our main family car is a sub-compact), and we really have not much interest in a big house or fancy cars. We do like to travel, and that will be a big part of family budget in years to go.

We live close-in now, and are at a public elementary, but we worry about our family not fitting in. There is lots of family discussions about exotic vacations, private schools, and folks dressing well and driving nice cars. As a whole, the parents are great and all seem interesting and more or less on-level; we know us parents will have no probably relating in PTA etc, and kids are young enough now that really we have no complaints.

But we worry down the line, when our kids become most obviously some of the have-nots in the class; we've heard about the effects of growing up with less than your peers and now it cause issues later on. And end of the day, it would be nice to 'fit' in to the community and the school and not feel a bit like interlopers.

I suspect we would like Takoma Park a great deal, but it would be a Faustian bargain: we *might* find a community (though given the prices in TP, MD, it isn't exactly middle class), but it would give us both an hour long commute. Most of the folks we work with and the most like us in age and income have made the move to the out-ring suburbs of Burke, Vienna, Rockville, Olney. I suspect someplace like Clarksville or Olney would also be wonderful neighborhoods, but if we both work then our commutes would be hour+ each (most of the families we know who do this have extended family living near/with them and sometimes a nanny -- we are an atomic family on our own). Changing jobs won't help, our careers to migrate to those areas *at* all. One of us could stay home, but we would likely return to the original problem: with our reduced income we would now be much poorer than our cohorts. And a single income opens us up to additional risks we aren't ready to grapple with.

So the real question for us is: is a theoretically better 'fit' to values/neighborhood worth the loss of time with our children because of the longer commute??

We have a slightly lower HHI than yours, and our housing budget is similarly somewhat lower. We live in Arlington, in the W-L High school zone. There are plenty of families with very high HHI and huge houses. There are also plenty of families in small homes (like ours) and apartments. I don't think my children feel in the least bit underprivileged (as certainly they are not).

I feel very comfortable here, driving my 8-year-old 2-door cheapo car. We bought a house that would sell for much less than $1 million today, but it also is older and and small and lacking many of the amenities that so many DCUMers want. I am actually quite fond of it. My commute to DC is usually quite easy.

I have relatives and friends who are long-time teachers in APS and feel confident that the schools are solid everywhere in Arlington, south as well as north.

Can I ask where you live now?

[Anonymous]

10:24 - Not so. There are new homes being built quicker than you know.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:10:24 - Not so. There are new homes being built quicker than you know.

Yeah prices weren't half what they were a couple of years ago; the doubling took place in 2003-2005, so all those middle income buyers are quite old now and kids are likely in middle or high school. So not really relevant to today's younger parents.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I know this is something of a beaten dead horse, since it has been covered in many similar threads, such as:

http://www.dcurbanmom.com/jforum/posts/list/105/309642.page

But we have some variation on our perspective and were looking to solicit some input?

First our situation:

HHI: little over $200k, mid-career unlikely to rise anytime soon, both parents work full-time and commute to the southern side of DC.
Commute: Would like to keep it under 30 minutes to south DC (Capital South/National Stadium), so clearly need close-in neighborhood
Housing budget: $1M, though that would be for a move-in ready home, no resources for extensive renovation. Townhouse is fine.

At this point, we are typical upper middle parents in DC, but our perspective is a little different than some folks. Our philosophy is probably a little bohemian tiger mom, to mix metaphors and probably self-contradict. We want our kids to be happy and try to relax, but have high expectations for them for education. We tend to be organic and environmental (1st DC ate strictly organic until 3; lived for many years with no or only 1 car; even now our main family car is a sub-compact), and we really have not much interest in a big house or fancy cars. We do like to travel, and that will be a big part of family budget in years to go.

We live close-in now, and are at a public elementary, but we worry about our family not fitting in. There is lots of family discussions about exotic vacations, private schools, and folks dressing well and driving nice cars. As a whole, the parents are great and all seem interesting and more or less on-level; we know us parents will have no probably relating in PTA etc, and kids are young enough now that really we have no complaints.

But we worry down the line, when our kids become most obviously some of the have-nots in the class; we've heard about the effects of growing up with less than your peers and now it cause issues later on. And end of the day, it would be nice to 'fit' in to the community and the school and not feel a bit like interlopers.

I suspect we would like Takoma Park a great deal, but it would be a Faustian bargain: we *might* find a community (though given the prices in TP, MD, it isn't exactly middle class), but it would give us both an hour long commute. Most of the folks we work with and the most like us in age and income have made the move to the out-ring suburbs of Burke, Vienna, Rockville, Olney. I suspect someplace like Clarksville or Olney would also be wonderful neighborhoods, but if we both work then our commutes would be hour+ each (most of the families we know who do this have extended family living near/with them and sometimes a nanny -- we are an atomic family on our own). Changing jobs won't help, our careers to migrate to those areas *at* all. One of us could stay home, but we would likely return to the original problem: with our reduced income we would now be much poorer than our cohorts. And a single income opens us up to additional risks we aren't ready to grapple with.

So the real question for us is: is a theoretically better 'fit' to values/neighborhood worth the loss of time with our children because of the longer commute??

We have a slightly lower HHI than yours, and our housing budget is similarly somewhat lower. We live in Arlington, in the W-L High school zone. There are plenty of families with very high HHI and huge houses. There are also plenty of families in small homes (like ours) and apartments. I don't think my children feel in the least bit underprivileged (as certainly they are not).

I feel very comfortable here, driving my 8-year-old 2-door cheapo car. We bought a house that would sell for much less than $1 million today, but it also is older and and small and lacking many of the amenities that so many DCUMers want. I am actually quite fond of it. My commute to DC is usually quite easy.

I have relatives and friends who are long-time teachers in APS and feel confident that the schools are solid everywhere in Arlington, south as well as north.

Can I ask where you live now?

Agreed arlington elementary schools can generally al be excellent. But high middle school and high school have a big divide in quality. You could argue a bright upper middle kid will do fine anywhere; but that is a desperate debate over current question of good schools and commute and community balance.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Agreed arlington elementary schools can generally al be excellent. But high middle school and high school have a big divide in quality. You could argue a bright upper middle kid will do fine anywhere; but that is a desperate debate over current question of good schools and commute and community balance.

Please provide your evidence for this statement?

[Anonymous]

We know families at every middle and high school in Arlington. The big divide is in socioeconomic status, not quality of education.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Nothing is worth the loss of time with your children.

OP here; that is our feeling as well, but we see a lot of middle income families moving out to those far-flung neighborhoods instead of living in the condos and townhouses we are squeezing into. We feel like we might have missed a memo!

No no no, I am almost similar to you with few exceptions. I live in a condo because I do not want a house and I do not want to live far out. My condo building have a lot of foreigners so I feel it's a place I belong. However, the non foreigners in the building are a bit more frazzled about living in an apartment and they tend to look out of place - like it's hard for them to relax. My kids do get judge for living in an apart building instead of sfh, my kids have probably missed out on play dates because of it. It never registered to me that I needed to fit in one way or another until I found dcum. But I have been called a tigerish mom and I feel we will help our kids make it to anywhere they want to and their goals are pretty high. From that sense, I don't care if we fit in, but I know it is not the reality for others. We can move out and maybe be able to afford a 1.5m sfh, but that won't happen, at least not so we can fit in. That's the good part of being ignorant of some of the cultural nuances around here. So OP, for some, a condo is a preference not a must.