Fitting into Upper Income Neighborhood Or Where Should Live/School

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I would have said it more nicely, but I also don't understand the impulse to liquidate retirement assets to keep up with the Joneses. One of the best gifts you can give your children is the ability to be happy with what they have. Followed by the ability to take care of yourself in retirement.

So, buy the house you can afford in the school district you have your heart set on, and forget about what other people think.

That's the rub. It's house you can afford with all-in or time in the car? Or stick renting apartments and gamble on our kids being odd man out ? We couldn't care less about joneses, but kids are by nature more sensitive to such things.

I disagree that kids are "sensitive to such things." I think this is a learned thing from parents for the most part. When a kid says, "you have a small backyard" it is rooted in fact, not judgment. When you get huffy about it over wine with your DH and your DD hears you, she learns your reaction. And, while young kids may like big yards, when they are in middle school they will want subway access, so unless you plan on moving every few years, you can't have a home that fits your needs perfectly at all times. You are really overthinking this.

We have a small backyard but our house is 8000sqrft and takes up most of the lot , will they still make fun of my kid?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I would have said it more nicely, but I also don't understand the impulse to liquidate retirement assets to keep up with the Joneses. One of the best gifts you can give your children is the ability to be happy with what they have. Followed by the ability to take care of yourself in retirement.

So, buy the house you can afford in the school district you have your heart set on, and forget about what other people think.

That's the rub. It's house you can afford with all-in or time in the car? Or stick renting apartments and gamble on our kids being odd man out ? We couldn't care less about joneses, but kids are by nature more sensitive to such things.

I disagree that kids are "sensitive to such things." I think this is a learned thing from parents for the most part. When a kid says, "you have a small backyard" it is rooted in fact, not judgment. When you get huffy about it over wine with your DH and your DD hears you, she learns your reaction. And, while young kids may like big yards, when they are in middle school they will want subway access, so unless you plan on moving every few years, you can't have a home that fits your needs perfectly at all times. You are really overthinking this.

We have a small backyard but our house is 8000sqrft and takes up most of the lot , will they still make fun of my kid?

No, your kid will be the asshole who makes fun of the other kids for not having a basketball court in their basement.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:AU Park.

Great schools, and Deal is a great middle school, the PP that said otherwise does not have recent information. Over 90% of the kids going to the sought after elementary feeder schools move on to Deal now. That was always the problem for many parents, whether the middle school cohort was equally prepared. There are good high school options in DC and they are only getting better.

I commute to SW DC and it is 20 minutes (I go early like OP), DH commutes to the same area after school drop off and it takes him 30 minutes in the middle of rush hour.

While there are families with more, a $200K income is not poor by AU Park standards, plenty of older hybrids in the hood. And we have 3, count em 3, whole foods within a 5 minute drive from almost anywhere in the neighborhood so plenty of neighbors getting their organic fix.

Most houses are walking distance to a metro (Friendship Heights or Tenleytown), and most families are there for the good commute and schools, not the housing stock.

+1. Its an "affordable" neighborhood where you can still get a SFH home for under a million (in some cases quite a bit under). I want the PP to tell me where the other whole foods are - I only know of one - but between the spring valley shopping center, fresh and green, and the whole foods on Wisconsin we are well covered. The metro is nearby. Its quiet but not overly suburban (you can walk to at least a handful of restaurants and bars). There's a great park for the kids (Turtle Park), the bus runs down Yuma, the neighborhood is full of kids who play in their front yards, there's at least three of four block parties a year, the proximity to delacarlia means you have a fast route to bridges if you need them, the palisades sunday farmers thing is 5 minutes drive, AU is not a throughfare for traffic for the most part (yuma an exception), its a big mix of middle class folks, lots of school teachers/administrators, mid level government employees, etc. HHI of $150K here is probably just about the average. You'll see more hondas, nissans, toyotas and subarus than you will audis, bmws, and teslas. Birthday parties are in backyards, not at the Harvard club. Critter pants are not mandatory sunday attire. Theres a good mix of private pre-k's as well.

What you loose is your carerra marble countertop with the miele dishwasher. What you gain is all of the above.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Somebody in the other thread the OP referenced noted that many desirable neighborhoods are full of residents that were "grandfathered in" and could not now easily afford the houses they live in. So if you move into a $1 million house, there probably many families that bought their houses for half that a few years ago and are living a lifestyle well below what a $1 million house implies. So this would pose a favorable force on OP's concerns about being "outclassed" by neighbors.

Waving hand-- Over here! We are in southern McLean HHI of $150-$180k. We could not afford our current home and still keep our current work/family life balance. However, unless poster has children in MS and HS, that is changing fast. Families with younger kids definitely make more than the MS/HS cohort. We used to call our section of McLean the "braownbag" section, but that is changing faster than the teardowns are being turned into McMansions.

This stuff makes me upset but whatever. We have a HHI of over 300K but since we just started out and are in our early 30s and have high kids costs we don't have enough saved to buy in places where people make half.

If your HHI is $300k you can afford to buy in southern McLean and in Northern Arlington. Plenty of house are inthe $800-$900k range (within reach for a HHI of $300k). Yes, they are old, yes they are smaller that you want, yes they have ugly bathrooms in pink, baby blue, green or yellow, but they are sturdy and livable. So, if you are upset ahtat you can't afford the $1.5-$2m houses, go for it, but those are not the house we are living in on an income o $150k. With your income, you can save a ton, even with daycare costs. Plenty of people are living here with half and a quarter of your HHI- you can live like them for a few years, save a bundle and buy then.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I would have said it more nicely, but I also don't understand the impulse to liquidate retirement assets to keep up with the Joneses. One of the best gifts you can give your children is the ability to be happy with what they have. Followed by the ability to take care of yourself in retirement.

So, buy the house you can afford in the school district you have your heart set on, and forget about what other people think.

That's the rub. It's house you can afford with all-in or time in the car? Or stick renting apartments and gamble on our kids being odd man out ? We couldn't care less about joneses, but kids are by nature more sensitive to such things.

I disagree that kids are "sensitive to such things." I think this is a learned thing from parents for the most part. When a kid says, "you have a small backyard" it is rooted in fact, not judgment. When you get huffy about it over wine with your DH and your DD hears you, she learns your reaction. And, while young kids may like big yards, when they are in middle school they will want subway access, so unless you plan on moving every few years, you can't have a home that fits your needs perfectly at all times. You are really overthinking this.

We have a small backyard but our house is 8000sqrft and takes up most of the lot , will they still make fun of my kid?

Not your kid..........

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:AU Park.

Great schools, and Deal is a great middle school, the PP that said otherwise does not have recent information. Over 90% of the kids going to the sought after elementary feeder schools move on to Deal now. That was always the problem for many parents, whether the middle school cohort was equally prepared. There are good high school options in DC and they are only getting better.

I commute to SW DC and it is 20 minutes (I go early like OP), DH commutes to the same area after school drop off and it takes him 30 minutes in the middle of rush hour.

While there are families with more, a $200K income is not poor by AU Park standards, plenty of older hybrids in the hood. And we have 3, count em 3, whole foods within a 5 minute drive from almost anywhere in the neighborhood so plenty of neighbors getting their organic fix.

Most houses are walking distance to a metro (Friendship Heights or Tenleytown), and most families are there for the good commute and schools, not the housing stock.

+1. Its an "affordable" neighborhood where you can still get a SFH home for under a million (in some cases quite a bit under). I want the PP to tell me where the other whole foods are - I only know of one - but between the spring valley shopping center, fresh and green, and the whole foods on Wisconsin we are well covered. The metro is nearby. Its quiet but not overly suburban (you can walk to at least a handful of restaurants and bars). There's a great park for the kids (Turtle Park), the bus runs down Yuma, the neighborhood is full of kids who play in their front yards, there's at least three of four block parties a year, the proximity to delacarlia means you have a fast route to bridges if you need them, the palisades sunday farmers thing is 5 minutes drive, AU is not a throughfare for traffic for the most part (yuma an exception), its a big mix of middle class folks, lots of school teachers/administrators, mid level government employees, etc. HHI of $150K here is probably just about the average. You'll see more hondas, nissans, toyotas and subarus than you will audis, bmws, and teslas. Birthday parties are in backyards, not at the Harvard club. Critter pants are not mandatory sunday attire. Theres a good mix of private pre-k's as well.

What you loose is your carerra marble countertop with the miele dishwasher. What you gain is all of the above.

Whole Foods: (1) Tenleytown - right at Albermarle and Wisconsin;(2) Friendship Heights - in the Wisconsin Place Shopping Center, with the Blommingdales (Wisconsin and Western Ave); (3) Bethesda - River Road, drive out of DC on River Road and it is on your right after you pass Little Falls Road, across from American Plant Food.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Whole Foods: (1) Tenleytown - right at Albermarle and Wisconsin;(2) Friendship Heights - in the Wisconsin Place Shopping Center, with the Blommingdales (Wisconsin and Western Ave); (3) Bethesda - River Road, drive out of DC on River Road and it is on your right after you pass Little Falls Road, across from American Plant Food.

And 4) "Georgetown" - Glover Park, really. Wisconsin and Calvert.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I know this is something of a beaten dead horse, since it has been covered in many similar threads, such as:

http://www.dcurbanmom.com/jforum/posts/list/105/309642.page

But we have some variation on our perspective and were looking to solicit some input?

First our situation:

HHI: little over $200k, mid-career unlikely to rise anytime soon, both parents work full-time and commute to the southern side of DC.
Commute: Would like to keep it under 30 minutes to south DC (Capital South/National Stadium), so clearly need close-in neighborhood
Housing budget: $1M, though that would be for a move-in ready home, no resources for extensive renovation. Townhouse is fine.

At this point, we are typical upper middle parents in DC, but our perspective is a little different than some folks. Our philosophy is probably a little bohemian tiger mom, to mix metaphors and probably self-contradict. We want our kids to be happy and try to relax, but have high expectations for them for education. We tend to be organic and environmental (1st DC ate strictly organic until 3; lived for many years with no or only 1 car; even now our main family car is a sub-compact), and we really have not much interest in a big house or fancy cars. We do like to travel, and that will be a big part of family budget in years to go.

We live close-in now, and are at a public elementary, but we worry about our family not fitting in. There is lots of family discussions about exotic vacations, private schools, and folks dressing well and driving nice cars. As a whole, the parents are great and all seem interesting and more or less on-level; we know us parents will have no probably relating in PTA etc, and kids are young enough now that really we have no complaints.

But we worry down the line, when our kids become most obviously some of the have-nots in the class; we've heard about the effects of growing up with less than your peers and now it cause issues later on. And end of the day, it would be nice to 'fit' in to the community and the school and not feel a bit like interlopers.

I suspect we would like Takoma Park a great deal, but it would be a Faustian bargain: we *might* find a community (though given the prices in TP, MD, it isn't exactly middle class), but it would give us both an hour long commute. Most of the folks we work with and the most like us in age and income have made the move to the out-ring suburbs of Burke, Vienna, Rockville, Olney. I suspect someplace like Clarksville or Olney would also be wonderful neighborhoods, but if we both work then our commutes would be hour+ each (most of the families we know who do this have extended family living near/with them and sometimes a nanny -- we are an atomic family on our own). Changing jobs won't help, our careers to migrate to those areas *at* all. One of us could stay home, but we would likely return to the original problem: with our reduced income we would now be much poorer than our cohorts. And a single income opens us up to additional risks we aren't ready to grapple with.

So the real question for us is: is a theoretically better 'fit' to values/neighborhood worth the loss of time with our children because of the longer commute??

Not enough in the world