SN/Gifted DD accused of cheating -- legal rights?

[Anonymous]

Why on earth in middle school do a group of students get to decide punishments for other students?

What a terrible idea! This is the age when peer control has so many negative effects for kids, including bullying, gossiping, ostracizing. I say BS to the principal who says all the kids keep things completely confidential. At that age, no way.

Hand picked by the teachers and principals? Teachers pets? Kids of the volunteer mom squad? Queen bees (who often look like very responsible kids in the eyes of the adults who never see behind the scenes). I am sure many of them are good kids, but just as many might be kids who put on a good face to adults or good kids with PITA gossipy moms.

OP, I am not a ruffle the feathers type person, but I would take this peer review issue all the way up to the highest district level, and see how this is allowed by district policy. It is the adults' job to keep order and discipline in the school, NOT a group of hand picked students.

[Anonymous]

Still ranting here. What kind of Lord of the Flies school is that principal running??? He can't use his own ADULT judgement and professional training give out punishments until they are recommended and approved by a group of students? Really? Why is he even principal? Go all the way to the school board and superintendant for this one OP. It is wrong on so many levels.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I would also immediately request an IEP meeting to get her a 504. If you don't have the plan, you don't have a basis for them to address her LDs or accommodate her.

Bright kids need support too, and she can't be denied a 504 because she's bright. Maybe the only accommodation she would need is a different kind of test instructions. But I don't think you are doing her any favors by not getting her a 504.

There's no shame in having one and schools are good about students' privacy.

If you are in MCPS, the person to talk to is Marissa Stemple, and also maybe call your community superintendent.

That is the problem. She is too bright for a 504. She is not GT. This makes me so mad.

Huh? Two of my kids are GT (2E) and each have a 504 plan.

[Anonymous]

Not necessarily agreeing it's proper to have them but think peer review tribunals are supposed to be like the jury system, to be judged and a sentence determined by ones' peers. To include students in the process and to provide an opportunity for the kids on the panel to be involved in student issues. Also, student panelists may bring a different point of view or have a different understanding of the cases that come before them than the adults.

Colleges have these. But then again, college students are older and the universe of college is much larger and less personal than a MS setting.

[Anonymous]

College students are adults. Colleges have HUGE populations where an accused might very well have never met the peer revieiw panel members and will likely never see them again. College students are not as prone to queen bee behavior, targeted group bullying of weeker individuals, and the fragile sense of self esteem and confidence that middle school students have.

How dare this principal do this to this girl, or any student. Give an appropriate punishment (a strong one at that) but have the adults who are paid for their judgement and also professionally bound to confidentiality be the ones to handle this. In short, the principal needs to do his job, and not pass it off to a group of kids.

There are real life consequences to this system for children like OPs, way more important than whether she used the wrong type of calculator in 8th grade. The cheating scandal will go away but the humiliation never will. The child knows this, and that is why she would rather get suspended. Mom, you know this too. You are right. Fight this one to the end.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Email the principal and say that you DD will not be attending the peer review counsel because it violates the HIPAA Privacy rules. Cc: the superintendent of schools.

Sit you daughter down and explain HIPAA and if anybody approaches her during school hours have her pull out a piece of paper and read...

I can not disccuss this with you because it violate HIPAA Privacy Rmules.

Thank you! This is exactly what I need.

To the other PPs: Thanks for your suggestions about getting an IEP. I need to figure out whether it's worth the effort in this case. The IEP we had in the past for DD resulted in minimal (and useless) school-provided therapy for DD because her disability didn't affect her ability to function at school (which of course it did, but don't get me started....) We ended up using private therapists for DD.

Does anyone know whether DD's diagnosis from a licensed clinician qualifies her as legally disabled?

A few years ago when DD had an IEP, I was told that DD qualified as disabled under the ADA, which gave her specific legal rights.

At DD's current school, I gave a copy of DD's diagnosis to the school's learning specialist and to the principal, who clearly never looked at it. It's in DD's file somewhere. I also gave copies directly to each of DD's teachers, and explained the nature of DD's disability. She does not have formal accommodations, but the teachers do make adjustments for her as anyone would, say, for someone with a bad knee or poor eyesight.

Until this incident, there has been no need for any legal protection for DD. I posted here because there are so many lawyers, and so many parents of SN kids who might be able to tell me what DD's legal rights are.

I will protect her from this peer review because I'm certain it would harm her.

PP, do you have a link that explains the HIPPA rules in layman's terms?

Thanks.

[Anonymous]

Not attending will force the issue and they will have to review their policy. But DD will probably end up getting suspended while they look into it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Still ranting here. What kind of Lord of the Flies school is that principal running??? He can't use his own ADULT judgement and professional training give out punishments until they are recommended and approved by a group of students? Really? Why is he even principal? Go all the way to the school board and superintendant for this one OP. It is wrong on so many levels.

OP again. Thanks for saying what I was thinking. I don't get it either, but this principal thinks peers are the best judge of their peer's actions. It makes no sense to me. There are teachers in the room as well, but peers get the most say, according to the principal. It's been approved by his superiors, he tells me, and studies back up the value of peer review, according to the principal. I don't think the studies were done on SN kids, however.

[Anonymous]

Op, I understand that you don't want to say where you live, but is your dd in a private school? The laws regarding IEP's ad 504 plans only apply to public schools.

[Anonymous]

OP, I have a couple of observations.

First of all, if you tell us your DD's diagnosis we can better help you know what you can push for. Unless it's something super-specific, no one will know.

Second, I feel like you are almost willfully NOT listening to what a lot of people are saying. you gave teachers and administrators copies of your DD's evaluation but you are balking at the idea of a 504 and formal accommodations. Why?

I agree that school-provided therapists are often not the best fit and we also went outside the school system and used private therapists for our child. But this is different from pursing formal accommodations that your child clearly would benefit from.

Teaching her to stalk around and wave a copy of HIPAA regs isn't going to help her as a long-term strategy, and will probably make things worse for her. Instead, why not take advantage of a system already in place to legally obtain for her the accommodations you clearly think she needs?

[Anonymous]

^^ Sorry, I mean "no one will know who she is."

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:College students are adults. Colleges have HUGE populations where an accused might very well have never met the peer revieiw panel members and will likely never see them again. College students are not as prone to queen bee behavior, targeted group bullying of weeker individuals, and the fragile sense of self esteem and confidence that middle school students have.

How dare this principal do this to this girl, or any student. Give an appropriate punishment (a strong one at that) but have the adults who are paid for their judgement and also professionally bound to confidentiality be the ones to handle this. In short, the principal needs to do his job, and not pass it off to a group of kids.

There are real life consequences to this system for children like OPs, way more important than whether she used the wrong type of calculator in 8th grade. The cheating scandal will go away but the humiliation never will. The child knows this, and that is why she would rather get suspended. Mom, you know this too. You are right. Fight this one to the end.

Thank you for this supportive post, PP. It brought tears to my eyes. Yes, this is exactly what I fear. My child will break down sobbing during this peer review panel, and yes, she will be humiliated and scarred for life. She told me she wasn't scared of the adults, but did not want to appear before kids, all of whom she will see around school. It would be completely shattering for her and undo years of work building her confidence.

[Anonymous]

Here is what I see as the problem (public MS teacher here). If DD had no LD issues whatsoever, then she would be required to go before this panel. Let's leave out the fact that I feel the panel is a bad idea, and acknowledge that it is part of school rules (this sounds very private school to me, btw, I've never heard of this in public school, but my private MS and HS both had one). You say DD has an LD issue, but you unfortunately have no LEGAL documentation of such. No IEP, no 504. Therefore, in the eyes of the school, your DD is "normal", and that is why the principal is insisting on the appearance in th tribunal.

PP was correct that if you are in private school, you are at their mercy when it comes to LD issues. There are no laws governing the process in privates. If you are in rpivate, I would gently suggest, given the setup and principal's attitude, that it may not be the best fit for your DD. Although you say it hasn't really affected her in the past, it honestly has (two times a fairly serious issue has arisen due to her LD), and you need to advocate for your DD so she gets the official support she needs to succeed. And a public school is required by law to do this. This is not about "labeling", it's about utilizing tools that will put your DD on EQUAL footing with peers, and not placing so much of the burden on her shoulders. A good 504 is nothing to fear!

Good luck with this-as I said, legally I don't think you have much wiggle room (morally and humanely is another story!!), as you have not set any precedent with the school prior to this. I hope the principal sees reason, but if he doesn't, it's a clear sign to me that you need to find a better school to fit DD, and get the ball rolling in terms of getting the proper documentation.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Op, I understand that you don't want to say where you live, but is your dd in a private school? The laws regarding IEP's ad 504 plans only apply to public schools.

If it's private she has no "legal rights" in this matter at all.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Op, I understand that you don't want to say where you live, but is your dd in a private school? The laws regarding IEP's ad 504 plans only apply to public schools.

If it's private she has no "legal rights" in this matter at all.

What country do you live in?