Need some advice about dealing with 17yo tyrant

[Anonymous]

Will he still be in high school at 18 because he messed up or are the issues separate.

If a child is in high school until 19 because of issues beyond their control, perhaps they were red shirted, or there were medical issues, or they lived in a state with an early cutoff, then I think that parents have some degree of responsibility to them to allow them to be supported through graduation. That support can be at boarding school or a therapeutic placement of course.

If he's done 4 years of high school and isn't graduating because he screwed up, then I don't think you owe him any more than you would a child who was graduating at 18 and kicking him out is totally reasonable.

If it's the former, I could see giving him 2 offers for summer -- you either attend X summer program (can be residential or day you choose) of your choosing, or you leave. If he leaves, make it clear that he can return in the fall, but the choices will be Y (boarding school, job corps). Continuing as is isn't an option. You could offer the same if it's the latter, but I don't think you have the same responsibility.

Will the military take him without a high school diploma? I don't think so.

[Anonymous]

Can you give him a warning? Tell him you realize he'll legally be an adult in two months. Give him the choice that if he has not accomplished X/Y/Z in X amount of time, you will be prepared to change the locks on the door and he will effectively be on his own. Can you list everything down in a letter to him, so that he has time to study it on his own volition? Maybe having him brood on it for a few days would be helpful.

Good luck to you, I was a hellion to my parents in high school and barely graduated. I got the crappola beat out of me by I guy I didn't know (I'm 5'3 and back then was probably 105 pounds), just after graduation. That was my wake-up call, I had to go to community college and ended up loving it - aced it all and got into and graduated from UVA. So I guess my message is that there is hope, although it sounds pretty rough for you and your family right now. Hang in there!

[Anonymous]

I think you need to hire a social worker who specializes in mental health issues. I had to do this for my sister. My parents let her run all over them and the household and when they were no longer able to care for her, she became my problem. I hired a social worker who specializes in mentally ill people, she was very helpful. You care looking for a case manager.

She was non-compliant, rude, violent and and expert at manipulating people and she was 40 years old and supported by my parent's money. They were scared of her. I had to call adult protective services for my parents several times. So hire a professional to help you through this. Now is the best time before he turns 18.

[Anonymous]

OP, I don't think I have advice, but wanted to say it sounds like you are doing all you can and I admire you for that.

I can relate - I am a parent to a 14 yo who needs A LOT of structure, consequences, and a lot of limits to do well. It is exhausting and as far as I can tell, outside of what is typical at this age. You are not alone in dealing with these challenges, and your son is lucky to have you. Maybe as PPs have said, the best thing is to let him truly feel the consequences of his actions early on. I am worried that you are concerned he will hurt you or your kids. That worry is coming from somewhere - listen to it and let it be a factor in your decisions.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What do you think is behind this? What is he so angry about? Why does he not think you are worth his respect?

When you dig deep, most really angry, rude kids have a story to tell - their sense of injustice / entitlement comes from somewhere.

Seeing as he was sent away to boarding school he may not feel that he is part of the family does he feel that he has been singled out as the problem child and that everyone else is out to make him miserable. he may feel he has never fit into the family given it sounds like the rest of you all get along great and have few problems - he may have felt different and excluded in a way since he was young. his behavior may be a defense, a protective wall to push everyone away and to show he doesn't care so he can act tough - all as bravado for feeling unwanted or like a misfit.

I think you need to be firmer with your limits / boundaries and more consistent with your consequences. Especially if he is going to live at home for the next year. Is there anyone in the family / extended family he has more respect for? Or a teacher or other adult? Do you see signs of antisocial personality stuff - can he be empathetic?

What are his strengths?

Sometimes it comes from mental illness or chemical imbalances - not from bad parenting.

I guess I don't see it as "kicking him out". I think the expectation all along should have been when he turned 18 that he would move on to independent living - either at college or on his own. If he wants to choose the military, let him. If not, tell him your expectation that he find his own place to live and make no exceptions. Part of the issue you are having is "say what you mean, and mean what you say". My guess is you have told him before you aren't going to give him rides anywhere but then you back down and do it when it is convenient. I would have told him no rides and made no exception. At 17 he can figure it out.

Absolutely it does, I agree. I didn't mean to imply bad parenting as I didn't get that impression at all from the OP. Different kids though have very different perspectives of the home they grew up in and how they fit in the family. Often mental illness can then distort that perspective even more. It can be really, really hard to be the ADHD / ODD kid in a house of high achievers who sail through life. he may actually have a very bleak view of himself although that isn't what he presents to others. There may be more going on than a kid just choosing to behave badly.

[Anonymous]

What a wonderful and kind group of people who would take time out of their lives to give me some advice. Thank you so much for all of it. I have read it and will continue to read it again and again. This has been a rough time in our lives, not what I ever expected in raising kids. I hope we can all survive and be happy and peaceful at some point. Until he turns 18, I guess we just need to hang in. Dealing with the day to day explosions is the hardest on everyone. We try hard not to give in, but find that we cannot fight every single battle and he battles 24/7. We are sure that there must be something/many things wrong, but he won't spend enough time with a mental health professional to sort through it. He is a smart young man with so much potential and I hope he can find his way. Thanks again.

[Anonymous]

OP, I want to wish you and your family the best of luck. I don't know what the answer is but either way it will work itself out. The thing is letting him face consequences and sink or swim on his own will happen whether you prolong it several years or let it happen sooner, it will happen. I say let it because your love for your son is obvious, so is your desire tread water while holding on to him. Please don't forget to give attention to yourself, your marriage and your other children. I am the younger sibling of a brother like your son. I am 39 and he is 41 now. It mostly turned out okay but not for Years. he created a lot of resentment and difficulty and pain because my parents kept protecting, saving, bailing him out...literally and figuratively at the expense of themselves and me. I love my brother and who he is now, but sometimes I do not like him. It turned out ok for us, and i hope for your family as well! My brother dreams in physics but he only passed high school by the grace of my mother, teachers who cared and quite frankly luck! It has not been an easy journey but we all got there. This is shaping who your other children are, how they view relationships. Please make sure you give them family time without the brother if necessary. Hang in there and be strong enough to let what be will be. I am hoping strength and peace for your family.

[Anonymous]

OP, you seem to be doing everything you can, and then some, to help your son. Hopefully, you're aware of all of his behaviors, esp. behaviors toward siblings and other vulnerable people in his life. Speaking from the perspective of a younger sibling of a brother who became an adult psychopath, sometimes those vulnerable people have been threatened with dire consequences, and so are too scared to confide in parents until after the abuser has stormed out of the house.

[Anonymous]

OP you are describing my older brother who, unfortunately, is now dead. His death was directly as a result of his poor choices, a trend which started, as your son, with oppositional, non compliant, violent anger issues, at home. He also raised a fist to my father.
My parents threw good money after bad sending him to one private school after another where he flunked out.  They pulled strings to get him into private colleges to pursue "his dream" and he refused to attend because he thought college was a waste of time and he could do what he wanted to do without it. My parents would not contemplate asking him to leave so he basically used our house as a hotel, coming and going as he pleased and taking no responsibility for his life because he could fall back on my parents for financial support. 
By the time my brother left home, he was incapable of making his own choices and taking responsibility. He, of course, moved in with the first wealthy woman who would support him and continued to do so over the years, moving lower and lower on the totem pole until he was living in really dangerous surroundings. In the year before he died, my father visited him and advised him to move away from where he was living because it was way too dangerous. Within a year he was dead. He wasn't doing anything wrong, just in the wrong place at the wrong time.

With my rather long story I am trying  to tell you that , though painful, you have to force your son to grow up and take life seriously. As painful as it will be for you and for him right now, the better it will be in the long run. The army is a fabulous option also. Please don't make the mistake my parents did. He has to realize early in adulthood that he is responsible for his life, not you. You have to also realize that how you deal with him now, will impact how he deals with life as an adult.

All the very best OP. Keep us posted.

[Anonymous]

OP, I am 7:51, a youger sibling- it seems a bunch of us have chimed in... please listen to us and get your other children counseling, regardless of what you decide to do. We are all wishing your family the best but sometimes you can't save them all... in my case it worked out so far but not without A LOT of pain , stress and aggravation to all. When I say it worked it I mean 20 years later.... were there good times during those years, sure but there were also a lot of bad times. I had a lot of issues and anger towards my parents for being so stupid and supportive and at him for being so selfish and getting all of the attention and money. I still wait for the day when I hear that my older brother is dead. It is never really over. Others have not been so lucky... we are not telling you to scare you but to let you know that your insticncts are probably spot on. Pleasekeep us posted.

[Anonymous]

I haven't read all the PPs, so sorry if someone else said this, but I want to highly recommend taking your son to speak with a military recruiter now.

My nephew joined the Navy right out of high school. But he first met with a recruiter the summer before his senior year. They put him in a program that prepared him for service by monitoring his academics, helping him get in shape and motivating him with success stories and "meet the recruits" events.

He graduated, sailed through bootcamp and has been promoted twice in his first two years of service.

Go talk to a recruiter now.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP,

I am a criminal defense attorney and I love kids like your son. I can usually keep a kid like him out of serious trouble with the law until their early to mid twenties. And by then their families have paid me tens of thousands of dollars in fees. I have a several families that I can set my watch by. Usually at some point either the mom or the dad will ask me if I think they could something differently. I tell them all the same thing. Put them out of the house and stop supporting them. No money. No cell phone. No car. No gas card. No family credit card. Nothing. Change the locks and give him a trespass notice. Show your two younger kids that you value them and put him out on his 18th birthday literally ready or not.

I think that this is really good advice. This is what my parents did to my brother. It's very hard advice to follow, but it works. Good luck OP.

[Anonymous]

I haven't read all the PPs, so sorry if someone else said this, but I want to highly recommend taking your son to speak with a military recruiter now.

My nephew joined the Navy right out of high school. But he first met with a recruiter the summer before his senior year. They put him in a program that prepared him for service by monitoring his academics, helping him get in shape and motivating him with success stories and "meet the recruits" events.

He graduated, sailed through bootcamp and has been promoted twice in his first two years of service.

Go talk to a recruiter now.

[Anonymous]

This is the attorney posting again. Let me clarify. I can keep a kid like your son out of serious trouble until (typically) their mid twenties. Around that time is when they have usually accrued enough charges that their sentencing guidelines demand a prison sentence, or they get a probation violation on an earlier suspened sentence (or low sentence I got them), etc. It is not the case that I can typically keep a kid like your son out of trouble and they straighten themselves out. In 15 years of practice I can count one hand the number of kids like your son who have gone on to have successful, productive lives.

Another thing I would urge you to consider is if there is some place else your younger two can live until you evict him, if that is what you decide to do.

[Anonymous]

Op- my thoughts are with you and your family. You mentioned that your DS has been to boarding schools, were they therapeutic boarding schools? There are some great residential programs (mostly on the west coast) that provide structure, therapy and opportunities to finish school. Often traditional, once a week therapy doesn't work for this type of kid, especially in an environment full of triggers- but it does work in a more controlled environment. This type of school has more of a focus on therapy than academics in the initial phase, but will have the opportunity to complete high school. Most programs also have a family therapy component. Since your DS is close to his 18th birthday I'm not sure how enrollment would work, but it might be worth looking inot. Unfortunately, these programs can be very expensive and most of the costs may not be covered by insurance. Here is a website about one such program.. http://www.turningwinds.com/