Sociology article on how private schools screen out disability

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Very interesting, I’ve only read the abstract but thought it might be of interest. Documents how private schools try to screen out disability at the earliest stages, to preference neurotypical and able bodied children.

https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/10.1177/00031224251326096

Of course. If you want to send your kids to a truly inclusive school, send them to public. Privates don’t really care about helping disadvantaged kids. Which is fine, but don’t pretend otherwise.

It’s not about disadvantaged students. It’s about disabled students.

But I take your point. This study is nothing new. Privates are not required to admit students with disabilities or support them beyond the very basics like extra time for tests. Privates, especially the very expensive ones, are not diverse. And they should stop pretending otherwise.

Privates are not pretending to be broadly diverse or help disabled students.

They only want diversity among high performing affluent students.

Of course they pretend. Warm, welcoming, diverse, inclusive of all kinds of kids. BS.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The abstract lost me when it said it was a "qualitative" study.

So no samples, no sample size, and no controls. Its basically an opinion piece.

You don’t really know how social science works, huh? Of course there’s a sample and a sample size. Your comment sounds like a word salad. ASR is a flagship journal of Sociology. This is the journal that professors at Harvard, Princeton, Yale, etc. Are dying to get into. (And yes, all of those schools have Soc faculty who do qualitative work)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The abstract lost me when it said it was a "qualitative" study.

So no samples, no sample size, and no controls. Its basically an opinion piece.

You don’t really know how social science works, huh? Of course there’s a sample and a sample size. Your comment sounds like a word salad. ASR is a flagship journal of Sociology. This is the journal that professors at Harvard, Princeton, Yale, etc. Are dying to get into. (And yes, all of those schools have Soc faculty who do qualitative work)

I share Feynman's view on the above. If it is not reproducible and has a large sample size and good controls then it is not science. Science is inherently quantitative.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Very interesting, I’ve only read the abstract but thought it might be of interest. Documents how private schools try to screen out disability at the earliest stages, to preference neurotypical and able bodied children.

https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/10.1177/00031224251326096

Of course. If you want to send your kids to a truly inclusive school, send them to public. Privates don’t really care about helping disadvantaged kids. Which is fine, but don’t pretend otherwise.

It’s not about disadvantaged students. It’s about disabled students.

But I take your point. This study is nothing new. Privates are not required to admit students with disabilities or support them beyond the very basics like extra time for tests. Privates, especially the very expensive ones, are not diverse. And they should stop pretending otherwise.

Privates are not pretending to be broadly diverse or help disabled students.

They only want diversity among high performing affluent students.

Of course they pretend. Warm, welcoming, diverse, inclusive of all kinds of kids. BS.

Only for the naive. The whole point of the admissions office is to exclude the undesirables.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Then why do over a third of the students at DC’s Big 3 get extra time? Why so much parent conversation about where to get evaluated, and how to complain hard enough to get more baroque accommodations?

(I mean, I know why. Everyone wants their bright healthy kids to have every possible advantage, and we’ve lost all norms of decency around this issue. But the contrast is telling.)

They need to start putting an asterisk next to any scores that were achieved with extra time or other accommodations. Perhaps colleges won’t care, and perhaps they will. Same with college degrees. The degree was conferred with special accommodations. Employers have a right to know what they’re signing up for. I’m sure the numbers would drop significantly after that.

My daughter is autistic. She has and needs accommodations and has had them since kindergarten. Something like 80% of autistic adults are unemployed, but thanks for the suggestion to make it even harder for her.

Hey PP! Don’t listen to the nasty hateful poster. One day they will realize the error of their ways. People with autism (and other disabilities) can and do contribute even at the highest levels of society.

Agree! It was so witch of that poster to right that. She must not have any SN people in her family. May she learn some empathy with SN grandkids some day + then might understand.

[Anonymous]

One thing I've observed over the past few decades supports this. Back in the 80s and 90s, if a child had a super-high IQ score, they were desired by all independent schools and offered scholarships. Now the schools don't want that type and most have disallowed even submitting scores. They don't want to risk enrolling too many 2E kids and want cookie-cutter, high productivity, athletic kids destined for Wall Street.

[Anonymous]

Yeah people have asked me if we've considered mainstream private schools (they are looking into them for their kids) and my answer was that we feel public is the best place for her given her disability (of course, for too many kids with disabilities public doesn't work either)

[Anonymous]

This is a big reason why we chose an independent DC school k-12, without even trying public. Selectivity. Shaping a cohort of fairly homogeneous abilities. Far fewer disruptions due to disregulated kids.

No regrets

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Then why do over a third of the students at DC’s Big 3 get extra time? Why so much parent conversation about where to get evaluated, and how to complain hard enough to get more baroque accommodations?

(I mean, I know why. Everyone wants their bright healthy kids to have every possible advantage, and we’ve lost all norms of decency around this issue. But the contrast is telling.)

They need to start putting an asterisk next to any scores that were achieved with extra time or other accommodations. Perhaps colleges won’t care, and perhaps they will. Same with college degrees. The degree was conferred with special accommodations. Employers have a right to know what they’re signing up for. I’m sure the numbers would drop significantly after that.

This has been settled.

https://dralegal.org/case/breimhorst-v-ets/

https://www.justice.gov/archives/opa/pr/law-school-admission-council-agrees-systemic-reforms-and-773-million-payment-settle-justice

https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2020-10-23/act-settles-lawsuit

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Very interesting, I’ve only read the abstract but thought it might be of interest. Documents how private schools try to screen out disability at the earliest stages, to preference neurotypical and able bodied children.

https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/10.1177/00031224251326096

Of course. If you want to send your kids to a truly inclusive school, send them to public. Privates don’t really care about helping disadvantaged kids. Which is fine, but don’t pretend otherwise.

economically disadvantaged, sure they do.
neurodiverse, not so much, they don't have the resources for it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Very interesting, I’ve only read the abstract but thought it might be of interest. Documents how private schools try to screen out disability at the earliest stages, to preference neurotypical and able bodied children.

https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/10.1177/00031224251326096

Of course. If you want to send your kids to a truly inclusive school, send them to public. Privates don’t really care about helping disadvantaged kids. Which is fine, but don’t pretend otherwise.

It’s not about disadvantaged students. It’s about disabled students.

But I take your point. This study is nothing new. Privates are not required to admit students with disabilities or support them beyond the very basics like extra time for tests. Privates, especially the very expensive ones, are not diverse. And they should stop pretending otherwise.

Privates are not pretending to be broadly diverse or help disabled students.

They only want diversity among high performing affluent students.

They do pretend to be inclusive and warm, but not with disabled kids.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Then why do over a third of the students at DC’s Big 3 get extra time? Why so much parent conversation about where to get evaluated, and how to complain hard enough to get more baroque accommodations?

(I mean, I know why. Everyone wants their bright healthy kids to have every possible advantage, and we’ve lost all norms of decency around this issue. But the contrast is telling.)

They need to start putting an asterisk next to any scores that were achieved with extra time or other accommodations. Perhaps colleges won’t care, and perhaps they will. Same with college degrees. The degree was conferred with special accommodations. Employers have a right to know what they’re signing up for. I’m sure the numbers would drop significantly after that.

My daughter is autistic. She has and needs accommodations and has had them since kindergarten. Something like 80% of autistic adults are unemployed, but thanks for the suggestion to make it even harder for her.

And you think an employer should have to make accommodations for her over hiring other candidates?

Not PP. I don’t think anyone should get extra time - but tests should be timed to 1.5 times what expected time for completion would be. Instead of giving some an advantage, remove time as a decisive factor.

But in the real world, adults meet deadlines. As a parent of two children with disabilities, including one who may not live independently, I think it’s okay to admit when our kids aren’t as fast as neurotypical kids. My kids will hold jobs. Not ideal jobs. I don’t want my moderate needs DS working in the ER. There are some jobs where time is a decisive factor.

I appreciate that / but I’m only talking narrowly about tests like the SAT. I don’t think it need extend to things like assignment deadlines where we can reasonably expect challenged people to navigate as necessary to accomplish a given task.

[Anonymous]

I mean, elite private are exclusive along many vectors.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Very interesting, I’ve only read the abstract but thought it might be of interest. Documents how private schools try to screen out disability at the earliest stages, to preference neurotypical and able bodied children.

https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/10.1177/00031224251326096

Of course. If you want to send your kids to a truly inclusive school, send them to public. Privates don’t really care about helping disadvantaged kids. Which is fine, but don’t pretend otherwise.

economically disadvantaged, sure they do.
neurodiverse, not so much, they don't have the resources for it.

DP. Private schools certainly have the resources. Those schools are not hurting for money. They simply choose to invest all of those tuition dollars elsewhere, rather than in providing resources to educate even mainstream neurodiverse kids.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Then why do over a third of the students at DC’s Big 3 get extra time? Why so much parent conversation about where to get evaluated, and how to complain hard enough to get more baroque accommodations?

(I mean, I know why. Everyone wants their bright healthy kids to have every possible advantage, and we’ve lost all norms of decency around this issue. But the contrast is telling.)

They need to start putting an asterisk next to any scores that were achieved with extra time or other accommodations. Perhaps colleges won’t care, and perhaps they will. Same with college degrees. The degree was conferred with special accommodations. Employers have a right to know what they’re signing up for. I’m sure the numbers would drop significantly after that.

My daughter is autistic. She has and needs accommodations and has had them since kindergarten. Something like 80% of autistic adults are unemployed, but thanks for the suggestion to make it even harder for her.

And you think an employer should have to make accommodations for her over hiring other candidates?

Yes, the law requires that employer's provide reasonable accommodations. Many accommodations that students need aren't necessary in many workplaces anyway. For example, I don't need anyone's permission to stand up and walk around if I need to, or have a fidget, or work in the evening if I need more time to get something done or use a screen reader.