Parenting limits different now than in the 90s?

[Anonymous]

This might be specific to where you live. In DC, tons of kids, starting in middle school, ride public buses and Metro to school, often making a transfer or walking a mile or so. Think kids on Capitol Hill commuting to upper NW. They navigate around to get to their after school activities on their own. My kids walk a mile or more to visit friends or go to a specific store, or they might ride bikes or take a bus.

They have so much more freedom than I did as a middle schooler growing up in suburbia.

We drive so little that it's going to be a challenge to get hours behind the wheel to get a license.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This might be specific to where you live. In DC, tons of kids, starting in middle school, ride public buses and Metro to school, often making a transfer or walking a mile or so. Think kids on Capitol Hill commuting to upper NW. They navigate around to get to their after school activities on their own. My kids walk a mile or more to visit friends or go to a specific store, or they might ride bikes or take a bus.

They have so much more freedom than I did as a middle schooler growing up in suburbia.

We drive so little that it's going to be a challenge to get hours behind the wheel to get a license.

This is our life too and we sought it out so our kids wouldn’t be as isolated as we were out in remote suburbs. We made the decision before people realize how bad social media and smartphones are for kids’ mental health but I’m even happier that we did it now.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My oldest is 11, so I'm barely entering the tween zone with him. Maybe my question will come off the same way questions from parents of babies come off to me, when they're like "I'll never let my child go to bed past 8pm" and "just offer them a rainbow of foods and they'll eat what their body requires, it's not that hard for me to do this with my 8 month old, you're just lazy!"

My question is basically, why are teens not allowed the same freedoms and responsibilities that we had when we were younger? I see on this board, and in some cases with the teenagers in our neighborhood, that they aren't allowed to drive more than a few hours away, aren't allowed to babysit past 10pm even on weekends, have parents stay at their sports practices, have their parents coordinating their college apps for them, etc. Obviously this stuff is a few years off for me, but what's changed? I let my 11 year old walk the half a mile to school alone with a friend, on a residential 25mph road with sidewalks and a crossing guard present at the 4 way road intersection he needs to cross to get to the school. Even if it's cold, or rainy, they walk. But barely anyone else does this even on gorgeous days. Kids get driven the half a mile by their parents. On rainy or cold days, the line to drop off in the morning is blocking traffic because it stretches down the 4 lane road that the school is on. Next year they'll be at middle school and the middle school is a mile away as opposed to a half mile away, but also completely on residential roads with one street crossing at a traffic light and his friend's mom has said she won't allow her kid to walk to middle school because of that street crossing. It's disappointing to me but am I in the minority here that I think that walk would be safe and fine, with a friend, at age 12?

I live in DC and have a middle schooler, and like the vast majority of our peers, we let our middle schooler commute to school on his own. A small minority still drive them.

So, there's that!

[Anonymous]

Your teen will find their people — which will include parents that parent like you.

For example, my daughter is friends with the girls whose parents are generally pretty strict on tech, but fairly free range. The girls did generally have Apple Watches in 6th grade. Some didn’t have actual phones until 8th grade. None of them have social media as 8th graders.

But these friends were allowed to come to our beach house for long weekends when the parents barely knew us. They did likely check behind the scenes with parents who had known us since elementary, but they were cool with us taking their kids three hours away for three nights. I was super clear with them before the kid came for the first time, that we let kids be pretty free range at the beach. They can swim without an adult, but no one swims alone. They don’t swim without a red flag warning. They can walk the beach on their own and get up early and go get breakfast by themselves. These are all girls who could go to the mall together on a Saturday afternoon with no parent starting in 6th grade. These are girls who have gone to the pool with no parents since 6th grade. Not my kid, but two of them go on long runs by themselves (they are into track). No one freaks out if these girls are hanging out at one house and the parents leave the girls at the house while the parents go out to dinner.

Middle school is where relationships are built on common interests. Your free range kid with find other free range kids because they will want to do similar things together — beach, mall, whatever the activity of their choice is without having some random parent hanging out all the time.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This might be specific to where you live. In DC, tons of kids, starting in middle school, ride public buses and Metro to school, often making a transfer or walking a mile or so. Think kids on Capitol Hill commuting to upper NW. They navigate around to get to their after school activities on their own. My kids walk a mile or more to visit friends or go to a specific store, or they might ride bikes or take a bus.

They have so much more freedom than I did as a middle schooler growing up in suburbia.

We drive so little that it's going to be a challenge to get hours behind the wheel to get a license.

I think this is right. Doesn't even have to be DC. We live in Arlington and most kids here by middle school (6th grade for us) are trending way more independent. Walking home from school, walking and biking to friends houses, meeting up to do things independently, taking a bus to get places (which is free for them).

I think this is something to think about very intentionally as a parent and there are parents doing developmentally normal letting the strings go gradually.

[Anonymous]

It depends on your preferences and where you live. My older two kids rode bikes about 2 miles to school starting in about 4th grade. The alternative was riding the bus. Due to a schedule change, my youngest got herself ready and either rode the bus or her bike starting in 5th. They ride to the pool and library. The library is all bike path or neighborhood streets, but about 4 miles. They have a decent amount of independence. I’d allow them to ride the bus around town as well.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Hasn’t changed here. I don’t let my kids walk as we know several kids hit and severely injured and two died from cars.

So you think that not allowing your tween to walk on sidewalks on a residential road, without a parent, will protect them? Don't you want them to learn some awareness of pedestrian safety in the lowest risk way possible- walking on a sidewalk, followed by crossing at an intersection with both a walk sign AND an adult crossing guard? My kid is perfectly aware now, at age 11, that cars will sometimes rush through that right turn on red even when the walk sign is up and a "NO TURN ON RED" sign is in their face, and to always check the turn lane before crossing. And it's lower risk than it will be when he's older because now, in elementary, a crossing guard is right there and she will whistle and hold out her arms and not let the kids start to cross if she sees a car trying to sneak through a light that just turned red.

Imagine if your kid hadn't been in these situations and then suddenly, at 18, has free reign to wander around with airpods in and assumes that when that walk sign turns on, he's free to stroll out into the road without looking.

Don't do them a disservice by not teaching them this stuff! And you teach them by letting them do it, in a controlled way!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Your teen will find their people — which will include parents that parent like you.

For example, my daughter is friends with the girls whose parents are generally pretty strict on tech, but fairly free range. The girls did generally have Apple Watches in 6th grade. Some didn’t have actual phones until 8th grade. None of them have social media as 8th graders.

But these friends were allowed to come to our beach house for long weekends when the parents barely knew us. They did likely check behind the scenes with parents who had known us since elementary, but they were cool with us taking their kids three hours away for three nights. I was super clear with them before the kid came for the first time, that we let kids be pretty free range at the beach. They can swim without an adult, but no one swims alone. They don’t swim without a red flag warning. They can walk the beach on their own and get up early and go get breakfast by themselves. These are all girls who could go to the mall together on a Saturday afternoon with no parent starting in 6th grade. These are girls who have gone to the pool with no parents since 6th grade. Not my kid, but two of them go on long runs by themselves (they are into track). No one freaks out if these girls are hanging out at one house and the parents leave the girls at the house while the parents go out to dinner.

Middle school is where relationships are built on common interests. Your free range kid with find other free range kids because they will want to do similar things together — beach, mall, whatever the activity of their choice is without having some random parent hanging out all the time.

OP here- see and I wouldn't even consider any of this stuff "free range" except maybe the swimming in the ocean without an adult present as a middle schooler- I don't think I'd allow that one personally. But a few 13 year old girls going for a walk on the beach together without mom? Walking down the boardwalk to get breakfast together without mom? Staying home alone together for a couple hours without mom? This stuff to me seems pretty basic!! i'd say free range would be if they were alone all weekend and also in charge of an 8 year old or something. Or they leave the house all day with no watch or phone and parents don't know where they are all day (as opposed to having an apple watch to check in with mom, and telling mom at lunchtime, hey i'm walking to the pool with Larla and i'll be back around 5).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Hasn’t changed here. I don’t let my kids walk as we know several kids hit and severely injured and two died from cars.

So you think that not allowing your tween to walk on sidewalks on a residential road, without a parent, will protect them? Don't you want them to learn some awareness of pedestrian safety in the lowest risk way possible- walking on a sidewalk, followed by crossing at an intersection with both a walk sign AND an adult crossing guard? My kid is perfectly aware now, at age 11, that cars will sometimes rush through that right turn on red even when the walk sign is up and a "NO TURN ON RED" sign is in their face, and to always check the turn lane before crossing. And it's lower risk than it will be when he's older because now, in elementary, a crossing guard is right there and she will whistle and hold out her arms and not let the kids start to cross if she sees a car trying to sneak through a light that just turned red.

Imagine if your kid hadn't been in these situations and then suddenly, at 18, has free reign to wander around with airpods in and assumes that when that walk sign turns on, he's free to stroll out into the road without looking.

Don't do them a disservice by not teaching them this stuff! And you teach them by letting them do it, in a controlled way!

This is a really important point. Kids who are overprotected end up LESS SAFE because they don't understand how to assess risk correctly. Protecting them by limiting them is an illusion.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Hasn’t changed here. I don’t let my kids walk as we know several kids hit and severely injured and two died from cars.

So you think that not allowing your tween to walk on sidewalks on a residential road, without a parent, will protect them? Don't you want them to learn some awareness of pedestrian safety in the lowest risk way possible- walking on a sidewalk, followed by crossing at an intersection with both a walk sign AND an adult crossing guard? My kid is perfectly aware now, at age 11, that cars will sometimes rush through that right turn on red even when the walk sign is up and a "NO TURN ON RED" sign is in their face, and to always check the turn lane before crossing. And it's lower risk than it will be when he's older because now, in elementary, a crossing guard is right there and she will whistle and hold out her arms and not let the kids start to cross if she sees a car trying to sneak through a light that just turned red.

Imagine if your kid hadn't been in these situations and then suddenly, at 18, has free reign to wander around with airpods in and assumes that when that walk sign turns on, he's free to stroll out into the road without looking.

Don't do them a disservice by not teaching them this stuff! And you teach them by letting them do it, in a controlled way!

This is a really important point. Kids who are overprotected end up LESS SAFE because they don't understand how to assess risk correctly. Protecting them by limiting them is an illusion.

Totally!! And of course that wasn't meant to come across as any sort of blame placing on the poor kids or parents that the previous poster knew, because who knows what happened in those cases and also, I'm almost always the first person to solely blame the driver when i hear of a pedestrian struck. But it surprises me that despite seeing these tragedies unfold in her neighborhood, her solution is to just shelter her kids from learning how to be a safe pedestrian, on their own, in a low risk situation. like never letting your kid drive once he has his license because you think it's dangerous, and then he goes off to college having barely ever driven before and borrows his friends car to drive and visit his girlfriend out of state, despite never having driven on a highway before.

[Anonymous]

I don’t know what parents are so scared of. If you look at statistics from 1990 vs 2020 results vary. Cars have gotten safer with multiple air bags, improved seatbelts and other hi tech safety features. Car accident fatalities have gone way down, so has drunk driving. Firearm fatalities are now the leading cause of death under 17. And most accidental firearm deaths are in the usual states - Louisiana, Alabama, Mississippi.

Teen suicides are still up and down over the years. Stranger abductions are extremely rare, it’s usually missing kids are runaways or a relative took them.

Unlike 1990 we now have tracking devices, phones for emergencies. There shouldn’t be much to be nervous about.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Social media and the constant reposting of stories has made it seem as though the world is more dangerous.

We used to watch the news in the evening or read the paper and you sometimes saw a bad thing happened story. Now you log on and can see 100s of a bad thing happened story and it is shared and posted over and over.

The world is a little more dangerous in that an increased population means more cars on the road, cars are faster, people are more distracted in their cars, etc. But people are still people, they aren't more dangerous.

Many people do not know actual facts or statistics. They base their sense of danger on their perception, not on reality.

Car accident fatalities in 1990 were 17.88 per 100,000 people.
Car accident fatalities in 2020 were 11.67 per 100,000 people.

Cars are much safer now than they’ve ever been.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Read some of Lenore Skenazy’s writing on this. That and Jonathan Chait’s book, The Anxious Generation, have motivated me to push against this trend and to give my kids a lot of autonomy and independence in the real world. This is to build confidence but also make the real world more interesting than the virtual one. My 11 y/o gets off the bus in the afternoon and goes to the park with friends. She often walks around our very walkable DC neighborhood by herself or with friends and goes to stores by herself, including to pick up milk etc for us. This summer I’m going to let her start riding the metro or DC bus by herself. To each their own but I am already seeing so much confidence in my kid and it has helped massively with her anxiety. She feels competent and happy. Eliminating all risk is impossible and attempting to do so just creates other risks, like getting sucked into online worlds, IMHO.

Keep going !! I started this young based on the same principles and mine are 16 and 18 and zero regrets. The “protected” kids seem to lack confidence and view the world as a fearful place. And the parents seem frustrated by their kids who seem frozen in anxiety now that they are “old enough” to be more independent, but these are steps you have to work up to. You walk to school first before you drive there!

[Anonymous]

And I agree - your kid will find other kids like them. Lots of parents struggle with transitions like 6th grade but the kids themselves will push back usually when they stop getting invites bc no one wants Larla’s mom trailing them at the mall.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This might be specific to where you live. In DC, tons of kids, starting in middle school, ride public buses and Metro to school, often making a transfer or walking a mile or so. Think kids on Capitol Hill commuting to upper NW. They navigate around to get to their after school activities on their own. My kids walk a mile or more to visit friends or go to a specific store, or they might ride bikes or take a bus.

They have so much more freedom than I did as a middle schooler growing up in suburbia.

We drive so little that it's going to be a challenge to get hours behind the wheel to get a license.

I think this is right. Doesn't even have to be DC. We live in Arlington and most kids here by middle school (6th grade for us) are trending way more independent. Walking home from school, walking and biking to friends houses, meeting up to do things independently, taking a bus to get places (which is free for them).

I think this is something to think about very intentionally as a parent and there are parents doing developmentally normal letting the strings go gradually.

Yep I do think there was a switch. One of the few good things parenting wise that came out of the pandemic.