How much of this is normal teen stuff?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

She is very rigid and stubborn and has decided that she wants to take all of the highest level classes in HS,

This should not be her choice. This should be a parental choice. With teacher/school input. She does not gt to decide. If you want some framework, this is what I would do: Re: Final Year-End Grades only ... she can choose 1 more advanced level subject for next year for every 2 B+s she gets. She selects 1 class choosing between those 2 subjects. (you could make a B rather than a B+ be the criteria)

I think this is really the wrong take - that the parent decides and she does not get to decide. For some students, taking challenging classes is the only thing that motivates them to any degree in school. This was certainly the case with my DD who was taking all the hardest classes but at the same time had a 504 plan with many accommodations. It would definitely made her life worse if we had pulled her from the harder courses. We respected her decision but made sure that she had accommodations that she needed to support her in that effort. Several times I had to insist (at her request) that she be put into a class over the objections of a teacher or counselor. In one instance, the school "lost" her application to an AP class (for which there were no pre-requisites, so I'm not sure why there was an application process at all) and in another instance when a counselor registered for 2 classes that the counselor insisted would be too hard to take together. She got As in both classes and went on to be a TA in one of the classes. We also went to bat for her when teachers refused to implement the 504 plan. Partnering with her in HS to support her desire to access advanced classes was an important demonstration of our support for her, but also modeled how to self-advocate and use supports when necessary.

The parent and the student should have an honest discussion about the course load. The student should say why they want to take the course & the parent should listen. The parent should express any concerns about stress management, failure to turn in course work, ramifications of a "bad" grade in terms of college apps, and supports necessary (accommodations, tutoring, etc.). The best outcome if you let the student decide but get some agreement what supports to put in place and when to pull the trigger on them (i.e. it's better to have agreement on a tutor upfront and withdraw that over time if the student doesn't need it. It's better to have an extra time accommodation if eligible and not use it if it becomes unnecessary.)

OP, the kind of rigidity you mention is not normal teen behavior. School teams are notorious for being inaccurate and underplaying issues. If there is autism or ADHD or mental illness, your school team will be unlikely to "diagnose" this in a way that makes it apparent to you that there is a basis for diagnosis. If you can afford a supplemental private neuropsychological assessment, I would do that. If you can't, I would look for a screening by a psychiatrist in your health plan. A qualified psychiatrist should be able to spot possible autism, ADHD, anxiety, depression, etc.

OP here. Thank you so much for this perspective. I feel like our daughter might be similar in needing to be challenged. That makes sense to me and also explains why she adamantly refuses to pursue anything that feels "easy" to her even if she excels in it or has a natural interest in it.

I'm not sure if we are just stuck in a vicious cycle, but we haven't been able to have a civil "honest discussion" in a long time. Maybe our relationship has degraded over this. I did attempt - I told her I wanted to understand the reasons she wanted to take all advanced classes - she said because she know she's capable of it, even though I think she's not. She says she has "high standards".

I told her I know she's capable but I had concerns -- that taking all 5 advanced classes next year would multiply her workload by a lot compared to the 1 advance class she has now. And that based on how much time it takes her to complete her workload now, I was concerned about what she had to give up to keep up - either her grades (during a time in might actually matter), sleep, or something else.

That didn't go over well at all. She said I was trying to ruin her life, said it wasn't my decision to make, and I should go mind my own business, and she knew it was pointless talking to me and stormed out. The biggest issue is this opposition.

We will likely pursue an outside eval. I wish we had just started there. At this point it feels like we wasted a lot of time

[Anonymous]

The multiple advanced classes if she’s already stressed is going to be too much. Can her advisor/counselor/a teacher aka a neutral 3rd party talk to her.

We are going through 5 advanced classes with my son who’s the same ago and it’s rough. He’s dropping down in a couple of things for next year

[Anonymous]

OP, I'm going to suggest you tackle this as if you were eating an elephant.

First things first. You think the school evaluation is likely going to prove useless. So it's time to make an appointment for a private neuropsych or get a referral from your pediatrician for a psychiatrist to do some screening tests. If you can afford it, I'd recommend a neuropsych because it will give you the most information. The big practices that do these know their stuff - I recommend them over the smaller 1-2 person shops.

Second. Focus on connecting with your kid. See what you can do NOW to improve your relationship with her, find common ground etc. Start trying to figure out what kinds of scaffolding help fill in the gaps for her vs. exacerbating them. Let go of 'age appropriate' expectations and try to meet her where she is now. Focus on what you like about her and what she does well and come back to that when you are frustrated or worried or mad.

Third. Let her sign up for advanced classes next year - the start of high school is nearly six months away and whatever path you/she chooses now is not set in stone. Pick your battles, play the long game. If you are able to successfully execute steps 1 and 2, you'll have a lot more information to work with by the time high school starts.

Good luck! This stuff is really hard.

[Anonymous]

My kids are older (younger DD is graduating this year), and it doesn't seem to me that the advanced classes require much more homework than the regular ones. Most of the work seems to be done in class, and my DD (who is taking all IB/DE classes with a few electives) seems to have little to do at home).

In general, she has found the advance classes less stressful than the regular ones because of the peer group. When she has taken regular-level classes, the kids are often more disruptive and the teacher has to spend a great deal of time on discipline. There also seems to be more busywork.

The other thing is that if she tries the advanced classes and realizes they are too challenging, she can drop down a level during the first quarter.

[Anonymous]

This sounds like ADHD (magical thinking, weak time management, focus, and execution) plus Anxiety (withdrawal, avoidance, rigidity, making demands on others). It's a lethal combination. Don't expect much help from the school. Look into interventions for both.

[Anonymous]

You need to have her professionally tested and evaluated.

Schools cannot do that or diagnose your kid.

My money is that she is 2e….everything you posted suggests probably high iq, with something else average or below average l. Commonly working memory but did not hear she loses stuff all the time which is the most common symptom.

[Anonymous]

my son is also ambitious with classes(app this, ap that) and does classwork and homework all the time at home (he is so SLOOOW), but needs us next to him so he doesn't get off task and then FIGHTS us about staying on task and does say awful things to us when we fuss and yell and try to get him back on task. He makes it a game of trying to sneak on youtube. If he can make us the enemy making him do something, it takes pressure off himself? Then he breaks down if we walk away and says he needs us.

9th grade, unmedicated ADHD, ASD, LDs around writing.

It's extreme immaturity and stress around doing difficult task he doesn't want to do.

So that is what you likely have too.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:You need to have her professionally tested and evaluated.

Schools cannot do that or diagnose your kid.

My money is that she is 2e….everything you posted suggests probably high iq, with something else average or below average l. Commonly working memory but did not hear she loses stuff all the time which is the most common symptom.

my 2e is low average processing speed. It's a killer. Daughter has low average working memory, and it's less of an issue right now in middle school. She can bop through classwork and homework quickly the way my son CANNOT. It might become more of an issue for her when academic tasks get more complicated?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP, I'm going to suggest you tackle this as if you were eating an elephant.

First things first. You think the school evaluation is likely going to prove useless. So it's time to make an appointment for a private neuropsych or get a referral from your pediatrician for a psychiatrist to do some screening tests. If you can afford it, I'd recommend a neuropsych because it will give you the most information. The big practices that do these know their stuff - I recommend them over the smaller 1-2 person shops.

Second. Focus on connecting with your kid. See what you can do NOW to improve your relationship with her, find common ground etc. Start trying to figure out what kinds of scaffolding help fill in the gaps for her vs. exacerbating them. Let go of 'age appropriate' expectations and try to meet her where she is now. Focus on what you like about her and what she does well and come back to that when you are frustrated or worried or mad.

Third. Let her sign up for advanced classes next year - the start of high school is nearly six months away and whatever path you/she chooses now is not set in stone. Pick your battles, play the long game. If you are able to successfully execute steps 1 and 2, you'll have a lot more information to work with by the time high school starts.

Good luck! This stuff is really hard.

This is good but I would add the off the internet, take the phone, and let her sleep. No one ca speak calmly with a sleep deprived teen - it’s simply not possible - so she needs to catch up on sleep.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP, I'm going to suggest you tackle this as if you were eating an elephant.

First things first. You think the school evaluation is likely going to prove useless. So it's time to make an appointment for a private neuropsych or get a referral from your pediatrician for a psychiatrist to do some screening tests. If you can afford it, I'd recommend a neuropsych because it will give you the most information. The big practices that do these know their stuff - I recommend them over the smaller 1-2 person shops.

Second. Focus on connecting with your kid. See what you can do NOW to improve your relationship with her, find common ground etc. Start trying to figure out what kinds of scaffolding help fill in the gaps for her vs. exacerbating them. Let go of 'age appropriate' expectations and try to meet her where she is now. Focus on what you like about her and what she does well and come back to that when you are frustrated or worried or mad.

Third. Let her sign up for advanced classes next year - the start of high school is nearly six months away and whatever path you/she chooses now is not set in stone. Pick your battles, play the long game. If you are able to successfully execute steps 1 and 2, you'll have a lot more information to work with by the time high school starts.

Good luck! This stuff is really hard.

OP here. Thanks, I think this is good advice. Working on the connection. And you may be right about the advanced classes.

I did learn today that she will qualify for an IEP - for executive functioning, anxiety, and social supports. So that is good news and it aligns with our understanding of her gaps as well. We will just need to deal with the anger and fallout from letting her know.

We don't have the full report yet, but based on my conversation with the school, her evaluations indicate she has a high IQ and is very advanced in all areas, especially cognitive and verbal skills, but average or below average in processing speed in fluid reasoning - which makes total sense. She's so smart but is often unable to connect the bigger dots and solve basic problems.

All that to say - I am encouraged again that the school seems to have picked up on her challenges and is willing to address those needs.

The biggest hurdle of all will be getting our daughter to accept the help. But I'm hopeful that if she starts hearing it from all different sides - from us, from the school counselor, her teachers, her therapist the school psychologists, that it will start to sink in for her. Right now, she is extremely resistant to receiving any help at all, because to her, accepting "help" is a sign of weakness.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:You need to have her professionally tested and evaluated.

Schools cannot do that or diagnose your kid.

My money is that she is 2e….everything you posted suggests probably high iq, with something else average or below average l. Commonly working memory but did not hear she loses stuff all the time which is the most common symptom.

She has very high iq, cognitive and verbal abilities and average to below average processing speed and fluid reasoning skills.

And she does lose things all the time.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My kids are older (younger DD is graduating this year), and it doesn't seem to me that the advanced classes require much more homework than the regular ones. Most of the work seems to be done in class, and my DD (who is taking all IB/DE classes with a few electives) seems to have little to do at home).

In general, she has found the advance classes less stressful than the regular ones because of the peer group. When she has taken regular-level classes, the kids are often more disruptive and the teacher has to spend a great deal of time on discipline. There also seems to be more busywork.

The other thing is that if she tries the advanced classes and realizes they are too challenging, she can drop down a level during the first quarter.

Thank you for this feedback- very helpful!!

[Anonymous]

It can be normal but I'd get a private evaluation just to make sure. Schools generally will not help if they don't have to.

[Anonymous]

You should get the book gifted and distracted.

Author had 3 2e kids before it was even a diagnosis. Now she trains schools on how to teach them. They are pretty rare.