How much of this is normal teen stuff?

[Anonymous]

I should probably wait until I hear the results of 14yo DD's school evaluation results to post this question. How else should we be intervening for our DD?

It's been nearly 2 months since we formally requested an eval and I haven't heard a peep from the school. I'm hearing from our DD that in the last week or so they have been pulling her out of classes for all types of evaluations - and essentially, it sounds like it all might have been a waste of everyone's time - especially DD's. They are evaluating her for disabilities and academic challenges she does not have. I feel fairly certain that after all of this time wasted, they are going to come back to us and say she does not qualify for an IEP.

And then we are back to square one, and we will have used up any crumbs of patience and goodwill that DD may have had left on this waste of time. I do think we will now need to do a private neuropsych eval.

She is very rigid and stubborn and has decided that she wants to take all of the highest level classes in HS, even when she is struggling to keep up with her MS classes, which are standard except for Math. She refuses any extracurriculars and does not socialize, and really struggles with social interactions. She wants to continue an instrument that she never practices, because all of her free time during weeknights and weekends is either used doing homework and catching up on classwork that she was supposed to complete during school, or random trash projects like spending 6 hours straight making hundreds of tiny clay balls, or cutting out hundreds of paper figures.

She keeps staying up late to do homework. She is increasingly more rigid with food as well. She was always a picky eater, but seemed to overcome it, but now has become picky again, and now she never has time for breakfast, rarely finishes her lunch (which I pack daily with foods I know she will eat, because she refuses any school food), and never snacks.

And she has mostly disappeared from our home life. She locks herself in her room all day, doesn't speak to us, except to say rude things or yell at us for making her life hell, and in the same breath, will make demands of us (to buy her things, etc). When I say I miss her and want to spend time with her, she says "who would ever want to spend any time with YOU?" She won't do her chores unless we relentlessly nag her about it. The house and her room becomes a complete disaster within a day of not staying on top of her to clean up after herself, or me or DH just cleaning up her messes for her. I'd feel better if someone just told me this was normal teen stuff, and that I just need to keep having patience and keep showing up for her, despite the fact that she has been behaving so selfishly.

But a part of me is worried that we are raising an antisocial who will not be able to function as a productive member of society.

[Anonymous]

This sees more than usual yeen stuff to me. Neuropsych is a great idea.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This sees more than usual yeen stuff to me. Neuropsych is a great idea.

Plus curb the staying up late and monitor electronics overdose.

[Anonymous]

I’ll concur that it seems extreme. We did an eval for my son at Mindwell, and it was a very thorough report. If you can afford a private evaluation, I think you’ll find it helpful.

How long has she been this way? What was she like as a toddler and during the elementary years? Any trauma or family challenges?

[Anonymous]

Reminds me of a friend’s son, who has been diagnosed with autism. He insisted on maxing out on hard classes in high school, and would stay up all night doing homework. Also very rigid and often surly with his family.

[Anonymous]

She is very rigid and stubborn and has decided that she wants to take all of the highest level classes in HS,

This should not be her choice. This should be a parental choice. With teacher/school input. She does not gt to decide. If you want some framework, this is what I would do: Re: Final Year-End Grades only ... she can choose 1 more advanced level subject for next year for every 2 B+s she gets. She selects 1 class choosing between those 2 subjects. (you could make a B rather than a B+ be the criteria)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I’ll concur that it seems extreme. We did an eval for my son at Mindwell, and it was a very thorough report. If you can afford a private evaluation, I think you’ll find it helpful.

How long has she been this way? What was she like as a toddler and during the elementary years? Any trauma or family challenges?

No trauma or family challenges. She's lived a charmed life. She was always a little different since she was a newborn. As a baby and toddler, she was always extremely tuned into her surroundings down to the microscopic details - like pieces of dust. She never was able to figure out how to nurse (got too distracted, and never was able to properly latch). She barely napped, even as a newborn. She took a 45 minute max nap, and then stopped naps altogether at age 2. Always endlessly inquisitive and stopped to smell the roses - a walk down the block took half an hour. Never liked being constrained (seatbelts) or hugs or any affection. Always had an almost photographic memory. Never liked any of our sitters or nannies (except 1) - mainly because they either tried to keep her from doing unsafe things or they asked her "too many questions" like "are you hungry?".

[Anonymous]

Sounds like Autism. Is her school considering that?

[Anonymous]

Can you afford a full neuropsych? They'll look for anxiety, depression, etc. along with any other concerns (ADHD, Autism, etc.).

Our school said it was good we went for a private evaluation, fwiw.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

She is very rigid and stubborn and has decided that she wants to take all of the highest level classes in HS,

This should not be her choice. This should be a parental choice. With teacher/school input. She does not gt to decide. If you want some framework, this is what I would do: Re: Final Year-End Grades only ... she can choose 1 more advanced level subject for next year for every 2 B+s she gets. She selects 1 class choosing between those 2 subjects. (you could make a B rather than a B+ be the criteria)

I'd rather not be in the position to impose something on her that she is 100 percent against.

When I say she struggles in MS - I specifically mean that it takes her at least 5-6 times longer to do everything than other kids. Grade-wise and test-wise - she absolutely excels and usually gets straight A+s across the board. The only time she doesn't is when she forgets to turn work in. And this is completely self-driven - we do not pressure her at all to get As.

[Anonymous]

Ok. My kid takes 3-4 times as long as everyone else in middle school and gets straight As. But she also really understands her sleep needs. She is inattentive ADHD. FWIW — her close friend who also takes forever to do her work, gets As, but obsessive about exactly how the work gets done so she stays up all night, and has major food restrictions is on the autism spectrum. She also has an eating disorder and ADHD.

You need an actual neuropsych to tease out what is going on. You need to enforce a bedtime and no late night electronics even if she needs some sort of sleep medication. Teenagers need LOTS of sleep. And the lack of sleep just makes the ADHD worse.

I hear you on the classes thing. My kid has been recommended for every honors class in high school. She did not get recommended for AP US Gov, but she wants to take it with a tutor. I assume she did not get recommended because they know how long the reading and writing take her. She has agreed with me that she will not do a 4 hour extracurricular for first semester so we can see if she can balance all this. But given your situation, I would have 100% said no to the AP and perhaps dialed down on the hardest honors classes. It is ok to say no sometimes.

[Anonymous]

If she gets A's she deserves to take harder classes. But it was you who said the only advanced class she had was math

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:If she gets A's she deserves to take harder classes. But it was you who said the only advanced class she had was math

We’re in a state where they don’t offer advanced classes in middle school, except for math. But in high school, you can basically choose honors or standard for all classes. But you’re expected to follow the teacher’s recommendations.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

She is very rigid and stubborn and has decided that she wants to take all of the highest level classes in HS,

This should not be her choice. This should be a parental choice. With teacher/school input. She does not gt to decide. If you want some framework, this is what I would do: Re: Final Year-End Grades only ... she can choose 1 more advanced level subject for next year for every 2 B+s she gets. She selects 1 class choosing between those 2 subjects. (you could make a B rather than a B+ be the criteria)

I'd rather not be in the position to impose something on her that she is 100 percent against.

When I say she struggles in MS - I specifically mean that it takes her at least 5-6 times longer to do everything than other kids. Grade-wise and test-wise - she absolutely excels and usually gets straight A+s across the board. The only time she doesn't is when she forgets to turn work in. And this is completely self-driven - we do not pressure her at all to get As.

DP. The bolded is concerning. With all due respect, you are the parent and she is the child. She does not get an equal say in something like this when it's affecting quality of life and other issues. Also, this is not how the world works. Just because she wants something and is being inflexible about it doesn't mean she is entitled to it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

She is very rigid and stubborn and has decided that she wants to take all of the highest level classes in HS,

This should not be her choice. This should be a parental choice. With teacher/school input. She does not gt to decide. If you want some framework, this is what I would do: Re: Final Year-End Grades only ... she can choose 1 more advanced level subject for next year for every 2 B+s she gets. She selects 1 class choosing between those 2 subjects. (you could make a B rather than a B+ be the criteria)

I think this is really the wrong take - that the parent decides and she does not get to decide. For some students, taking challenging classes is the only thing that motivates them to any degree in school. This was certainly the case with my DD who was taking all the hardest classes but at the same time had a 504 plan with many accommodations. It would definitely made her life worse if we had pulled her from the harder courses. We respected her decision but made sure that she had accommodations that she needed to support her in that effort. Several times I had to insist (at her request) that she be put into a class over the objections of a teacher or counselor. In one instance, the school "lost" her application to an AP class (for which there were no pre-requisites, so I'm not sure why there was an application process at all) and in another instance when a counselor registered for 2 classes that the counselor insisted would be too hard to take together. She got As in both classes and went on to be a TA in one of the classes. We also went to bat for her when teachers refused to implement the 504 plan. Partnering with her in HS to support her desire to access advanced classes was an important demonstration of our support for her, but also modeled how to self-advocate and use supports when necessary.

The parent and the student should have an honest discussion about the course load. The student should say why they want to take the course & the parent should listen. The parent should express any concerns about stress management, failure to turn in course work, ramifications of a "bad" grade in terms of college apps, and supports necessary (accommodations, tutoring, etc.). The best outcome if you let the student decide but get some agreement what supports to put in place and when to pull the trigger on them (i.e. it's better to have agreement on a tutor upfront and withdraw that over time if the student doesn't need it. It's better to have an extra time accommodation if eligible and not use it if it becomes unnecessary.)

OP, the kind of rigidity you mention is not normal teen behavior. School teams are notorious for being inaccurate and underplaying issues. If there is autism or ADHD or mental illness, your school team will be unlikely to "diagnose" this in a way that makes it apparent to you that there is a basis for diagnosis. If you can afford a supplemental private neuropsychological assessment, I would do that. If you can't, I would look for a screening by a psychiatrist in your health plan. A qualified psychiatrist should be able to spot possible autism, ADHD, anxiety, depression, etc.