Living facilities and “dumping”

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:People fall in facilities all the time. I am not sure why people think they are so safe.

Because someone picks them up when they do. Unlike living alone where you could go a very long time with no help, possibly in pain or with a head injury.

Correct.

One of my aunts fell in her apartment, and died. Her son found her the next morning. If she had been found sooner, she might have lived.
Another elderly person I know got dehydrated during a heatwave, and was found dead a few days later in her home. This would not have happened in a nursing home.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Facility situation you’re going to put her into is not any safer than living at home. She’s not going to get better care there so don’t fool yourself with that idea. But I’ve done caregiving for my in-home parents and I understand your burnout feeling.

OP here. It will be safer than her current home.
Downsizing (and decluttering) from a packed and cluttered 1 bedroom to a studio will help reduce trip hazards. Less turns, more “space”.
Also, when she falls - there will be people there. That is much safer than living alone.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:If your coworker hasn't personally been through this she is likely just naive. You're not dumping, you're moving her into a place where her needs can be met and she is near to 3 of her adult children. Yes a move is hard for people with cognitive impairment, but living alone is also bad for that, and unsafe. Living alone massively increases the chance of falls, accidents, and elopement which can be fatal. People who are with families, well, they're having un-skilled nursing and they don't have 24/7 awake supervision. The risks of that are real. Some elders are safer and happier with a residential setting and professional care.

+1

In other cultures that "don't dump" it 100% falls on the females in the family to give up everything and "take care of the elderly". That is not right or fair to the women. Your mom will ultimately do better and be safer in a facility. A facility where she will have interactions with other people not just you.

Also, yes, YOUR IMMMEDIATE family (teens and you) deserve to not have to be 100% focused on grandma, 24/7, 365 days per year. It's unskilled nursing and not safe, as well as it is not healthy.
We have facilities for a reason

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:FWIW we just put my dad in a memory care facility and it was 100% the right choice. It is appropriate care for his level of needs. He is a social person, too, so he is enjoying being around people rather than just sitting home with only my mom. 24/7 in home care was prohibitively expensive for them.

People who say we should care for elderly dementia patients at home need to walk the walk before they talk the talk. Reality is so different from whatever they envision in their heads.

Once they adjust, most in memory care do Better in a facility. They have the care they need, interactions with others (a good facility will have activities and encourage all the residents to participate), they will eat meals with others, etc. Also, they will be SAFE, in a locked facility where they cannot wander off or get into trouble (turning on the stove and not shutting it off, etc.)

[Anonymous]

My grandmas went to assisted living as well for dementia. Heads up that immediately both were tagged as needing to be in the locked memory care floor which was almost double the price. We loved the assisted living, but the memory care floor was bananas. It was on par with One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest (the movie). All the residents were in and out of each other's rooms. They stole from each other nonstop and they partied all night long. I was there when they put all the residents down to sleep at about 9pm (and by this I mean they helped them put pajamas on, dimmed lights, etc). By 10pm they were all 100% out of their rooms and partying. Falls were handled very very poorly. My one grandma was constantly falling and they'd send her to the ER weekly. It was a state law that she couldn't have rails on her bed, which would have helped her a lot.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My grandmas went to assisted living as well for dementia. Heads up that immediately both were tagged as needing to be in the locked memory care floor which was almost double the price. We loved the assisted living, but the memory care floor was bananas. It was on par with One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest (the movie). All the residents were in and out of each other's rooms. They stole from each other nonstop and they partied all night long. I was there when they put all the residents down to sleep at about 9pm (and by this I mean they helped them put pajamas on, dimmed lights, etc). By 10pm they were all 100% out of their rooms and partying. Falls were handled very very poorly. My one grandma was constantly falling and they'd send her to the ER weekly. It was a state law that she couldn't have rails on her bed, which would have helped her a lot.

I wonder why?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My grandmas went to assisted living as well for dementia. Heads up that immediately both were tagged as needing to be in the locked memory care floor which was almost double the price. We loved the assisted living, but the memory care floor was bananas. It was on par with One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest (the movie). All the residents were in and out of each other's rooms. They stole from each other nonstop and they partied all night long. I was there when they put all the residents down to sleep at about 9pm (and by this I mean they helped them put pajamas on, dimmed lights, etc). By 10pm they were all 100% out of their rooms and partying. Falls were handled very very poorly. My one grandma was constantly falling and they'd send her to the ER weekly. It was a state law that she couldn't have rails on her bed, which would have helped her a lot.

I wonder why?

I think because it's inhumane to confine people to their beds. But she needed and wanted to be confined a bit. Confined to me means being strapped down, whereas we just wanted her to wait for someone to assist her out of bed and she wouldn't. This wasn't in the DC area though, a different state.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If your coworker hasn't personally been through this she is likely just naive. You're not dumping, you're moving her into a place where her needs can be met and she is near to 3 of her adult children. Yes a move is hard for people with cognitive impairment, but living alone is also bad for that, and unsafe. Living alone massively increases the chance of falls, accidents, and elopement which can be fatal. People who are with families, well, they're having un-skilled nursing and they don't have 24/7 awake supervision. The risks of that are real. Some elders are safer and happier with a residential setting and professional care.

+1

In other cultures that "don't dump" it 100% falls on the females in the family to give up everything and "take care of the elderly". That is not right or fair to the women. Your mom will ultimately do better and be safer in a facility. A facility where she will have interactions with other people not just you.

Also, yes, YOUR IMMMEDIATE family (teens and you) deserve to not have to be 100% focused on grandma, 24/7, 365 days per year. It's unskilled nursing and not safe, as well as it is not healthy.
We have facilities for a reason

I will also argue that the care received is sub-par. It's just throwing them in a bedroom and household help is so cheap that they help with daily tasks. We don't have that option in the US, and even in India, nursing homes are becoming more prominent because of the gaps in care.

I had to place my mom in a facility because she simply would not listen to us and we tried. She didn't listen in her frailest state, and if she made better decisions by listening to us say 20 years ago, her life would not have been as complicated. We tried hiring help, she fights with them and shoos them away. SO the work is on us to find someone else. We both work full time and have SN kids. I am responsible for her care, but in a way that suits my priorities--which is the future generation.

[Anonymous]

Think of it this way, OP. If you walked into an eldercare job interview and said "I have a separate full-time job and two kids of my own, and I have no special training or credentials whatsoever. Please hire me to be the sole 24/7 go-to caregiver for all issues", would you get hired? Would you hire yourself for this? Or would you think your mother is safer and might be happier with someone who's actually competent and able to do it without tremendous personal strain?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If your coworker hasn't personally been through this she is likely just naive. You're not dumping, you're moving her into a place where her needs can be met and she is near to 3 of her adult children. Yes a move is hard for people with cognitive impairment, but living alone is also bad for that, and unsafe. Living alone massively increases the chance of falls, accidents, and elopement which can be fatal. People who are with families, well, they're having un-skilled nursing and they don't have 24/7 awake supervision. The risks of that are real. Some elders are safer and happier with a residential setting and professional care.

+1

In other cultures that "don't dump" it 100% falls on the females in the family to give up everything and "take care of the elderly". That is not right or fair to the women. Your mom will ultimately do better and be safer in a facility. A facility where she will have interactions with other people not just you.

Also, yes, YOUR IMMMEDIATE family (teens and you) deserve to not have to be 100% focused on grandma, 24/7, 365 days per year. It's unskilled nursing and not safe, as well as it is not healthy.
We have facilities for a reason

I will also argue that the care received is sub-par. It's just throwing them in a bedroom and household help is so cheap that they help with daily tasks. We don't have that option in the US, and even in India, nursing homes are becoming more prominent because of the gaps in care.

I had to place my mom in a facility because she simply would not listen to us and we tried. She didn't listen in her frailest state, and if she made better decisions by listening to us say 20 years ago, her life would not have been as complicated. We tried hiring help, she fights with them and shoos them away. SO the work is on us to find someone else. We both work full time and have SN kids. I am responsible for her care, but in a way that suits my priorities--which is the future generation.

OP here. This part is similar to what I’ve been dealing with for over 5 years. She has had a couple hospital stays, and afterwards they always send people to do an assessment on whether she needed assistance living alone. She always sent them away. They sent physical therapists. She sent them away. When she was still driving, I encouraged her to get involved with activities at the local senior center or library - “no, too hard to drive there, I’ll get lost” - when they are quite literally next to the shopping center with the Starbucks that she liked going to several days a week. So incredibly frustrating. I hope when I’m her age I don’t make the same mistakes and make life difficult for my family.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If your coworker hasn't personally been through this she is likely just naive. You're not dumping, you're moving her into a place where her needs can be met and she is near to 3 of her adult children. Yes a move is hard for people with cognitive impairment, but living alone is also bad for that, and unsafe. Living alone massively increases the chance of falls, accidents, and elopement which can be fatal. People who are with families, well, they're having un-skilled nursing and they don't have 24/7 awake supervision. The risks of that are real. Some elders are safer and happier with a residential setting and professional care.

+1

In other cultures that "don't dump" it 100% falls on the females in the family to give up everything and "take care of the elderly". That is not right or fair to the women. Your mom will ultimately do better and be safer in a facility. A facility where she will have interactions with other people not just you.

Also, yes, YOUR IMMMEDIATE family (teens and you) deserve to not have to be 100% focused on grandma, 24/7, 365 days per year. It's unskilled nursing and not safe, as well as it is not healthy.
We have facilities for a reason

I will also argue that the care received is sub-par. It's just throwing them in a bedroom and household help is so cheap that they help with daily tasks. We don't have that option in the US, and even in India, nursing homes are becoming more prominent because of the gaps in care.

I had to place my mom in a facility because she simply would not listen to us and we tried. She didn't listen in her frailest state, and if she made better decisions by listening to us say 20 years ago, her life would not have been as complicated. We tried hiring help, she fights with them and shoos them away. SO the work is on us to find someone else. We both work full time and have SN kids. I am responsible for her care, but in a way that suits my priorities--which is the future generation.

OP here. This part is similar to what I’ve been dealing with for over 5 years. She has had a couple hospital stays, and afterwards they always send people to do an assessment on whether she needed assistance living alone. She always sent them away. They sent physical therapists. She sent them away. When she was still driving, I encouraged her to get involved with activities at the local senior center or library - “no, too hard to drive there, I’ll get lost” - when they are quite literally next to the shopping center with the Starbucks that she liked going to several days a week. So incredibly frustrating. I hope when I’m her age I don’t make the same mistakes and make life difficult for my family.

Oh, I told DH that if I start acting like that then there needs to be a family interveniton

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Think of it this way, OP. If you walked into an eldercare job interview and said "I have a separate full-time job and two kids of my own, and I have no special training or credentials whatsoever. Please hire me to be the sole 24/7 go-to caregiver for all issues", would you get hired? Would you hire yourself for this? Or would you think your mother is safer and might be happier with someone who's actually competent and able to do it without tremendous personal strain?

NP - I like this a lot! Great way to frame it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Facility situation you’re going to put her into is not any safer than living at home. She’s not going to get better care there so don’t fool yourself with that idea. But I’ve done caregiving for my in-home parents and I understand your burnout feeling.

OP here. It will be safer than her current home.
Downsizing (and decluttering) from a packed and cluttered 1 bedroom to a studio will help reduce trip hazards. Less turns, more “space”.
Also, when she falls - there will be people there. That is much safer than living alone.

OP just be prepared that facilities are NOT all the same. Even those that are exorbitantly expensive and "high-end". Safe can be a relative word. Adjust your expectations.

I've been to high-end facilities where you walk in and everything is calm and clean and orderly. Then you discover virtually all the residents are lying in their beds watching TV. Some aren't even watching TV - just lying there. At 11 a.m. And 3 p.m.

Why? Because they were all drugged. It's so much easier when you don't have to do anything to care for people because they aren't capable of DOING anything. That includes falls. You don't have to worry about picking them up if they aren't walking around. It's also easier on your payroll budget if you don't have to hire as many people.

Some facilities have the policy that if anyone falls the staff do not pick them up but call emergency services (911) instead. It's for liability reasons. So the people lie on the floor until EMTs arrive, they take them to hospital to be checked over and then return them to facility. And local taxpayers wind up paying for this and the facility owners laugh all the way to the bank.

The fact of the matter is that elder care is big business. It is not unusual for venture capitalists to buy up smaller facilities and then turn around and sell them to larger conglomerates, helping to establish monopolies. I've looked at licensing documents for ownership and have also been shocked when meeting some of these owners and their blatant honesty about being in it for the money and doing the bare minimum until facilities can be sold.

All I can tell you is practice due diligence and look carefully beyond the glossy pamphlets and smiles and assurances of the intake coordinators. Or their well-oiled tour that is designed to show you shiny, happy people.

Check with your state and find out about complaints. Ask other people's family members visiting the facility what their thoughts are. Maybe even stop by the nearest fire station and ask how often they get called out to the facility. See if there is a volunteer ombudsman assigned to the facility and talk to them.

[Anonymous]

I am sorry you are in this boat. On another thread, I was told I am an embarrassment for wanting to be paid for caring for my parent. I was not able to work during that time. I bet that person would not even take time off for their parent yet they judge others. Meanwhile, there are people who think we are horrible for using facilities to handle our parents.

In sum, I would do what is best for you and your family and ignore people who have no clue what they are talking about. I am not familiar with Vietnamese culture but maybe it's economically easier to have one person not work and care for one old person 24 hours a day in Vietnam.

Usually, people who say we should take care of elders ourselves have never done the work of wiping butts, transferring people back and forth from the toilet, dealing with screaming dementia patients, managing all of the medications, feeding them, chasing down dementia patients who leave the house and wander, preparing three meals a day, transferring them from bed to wheelchair to toilet every morning, plus managing their medical appointments, driving them to and from the doctors, taking notes on medical appointments, attending follow ups, scheduling physical therapy, and on and on.

If someone is not willing to do what they think you should do, you can ignore them.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:People fall in facilities all the time. I am not sure why people think they are so safe.

Because someone picks them up when they do. Unlike living alone where you could go a very long time with no help, possibly in pain or with a head injury.

Correct.

One of my aunts fell in her apartment, and died. Her son found her the next morning. If she had been found sooner, she might have lived.
Another elderly person I know got dehydrated during a heatwave, and was found dead a few days later in her home. This would not have happened in a nursing home.

Think so? I've seen people whose water cups/pitchers in their rooms (which were supposed to be dated on refill per facility policy) and were empty and the date was from 2 or 3 days prior.