Living facilities and “dumping”

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If your coworker hasn't personally been through this she is likely just naive. You're not dumping, you're moving her into a place where her needs can be met and she is near to 3 of her adult children. Yes a move is hard for people with cognitive impairment, but living alone is also bad for that, and unsafe. Living alone massively increases the chance of falls, accidents, and elopement which can be fatal. People who are with families, well, they're having un-skilled nursing and they don't have 24/7 awake supervision. The risks of that are real. Some elders are safer and happier with a residential setting and professional care.

+1

In other cultures that "don't dump" it 100% falls on the females in the family to give up everything and "take care of the elderly". That is not right or fair to the women. Your mom will ultimately do better and be safer in a facility. A facility where she will have interactions with other people not just you.

Also, yes, YOUR IMMMEDIATE family (teens and you) deserve to not have to be 100% focused on grandma, 24/7, 365 days per year. It's unskilled nursing and not safe, as well as it is not healthy.
We have facilities for a reason

I will also argue that the care received is sub-par. It's just throwing them in a bedroom and household help is so cheap that they help with daily tasks. We don't have that option in the US, and even in India, nursing homes are becoming more prominent because of the gaps in care.

I had to place my mom in a facility because she simply would not listen to us and we tried. She didn't listen in her frailest state, and if she made better decisions by listening to us say 20 years ago, her life would not have been as complicated. We tried hiring help, she fights with them and shoos them away. SO the work is on us to find someone else. We both work full time and have SN kids. I am responsible for her care, but in a way that suits my priorities--which is the future generation.

This is key. My parents moved in with my sibling, contribute financially so that they can live in a bigger place, much of household chores & their care can be outsourced so that my sibling also benefits, and they can continue to have their own social connections. All this happened when they were still able and healthy. They have their own home which was rented out and it has made all them (and eventually the offsprings) pretty well off.

A multi-gen family works when everyone can pool resources and start putting support in place way before it is needed.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Think of it this way, OP. If you walked into an eldercare job interview and said "I have a separate full-time job and two kids of my own, and I have no special training or credentials whatsoever. Please hire me to be the sole 24/7 go-to caregiver for all issues", would you get hired? Would you hire yourself for this? Or would you think your mother is safer and might be happier with someone who's actually competent and able to do it without tremendous personal strain?

A lot of professionals in this field aren't very bright and don't care about their patients. This leads to constant little moments of disrespect and mistakes, and sadly, a real risk of abuse.

The only thing a family member is supposed to have that a paid caregiver doesn't is that they love the patient. I entirely agree that love cannot compensate for stress and workload. I entirely agree that women in the family should have a choice in whether they want to care for the elders or not. I am not advocating for us taking care of our parents and in-laws in our homes.

All I'm saying is that the treatment of the patient is not necessarily better in nursing homes. There is no win-win here, just various options of win-lose.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:People fall in facilities all the time. I am not sure why people think they are so safe.

Because in a facility, if you fall, there is someone around to help. It doesn't happen at 8pm and you have to wait until 8am when your nursing staff for the day arrives (at home situation). My parents are in IL in a CCRC, and they are required to wear their "pagers/beepers" with an emergency button. It works anywhere on campus, including outside 1 mile from the main building. You push it, someone is to your location in 5 mins. You push it from inside your apartment, and they are there faster and assist with what needs to happen. Have to imagine in a AL/Memory care, they are checking on patients much more frequently.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My grandmas went to assisted living as well for dementia. Heads up that immediately both were tagged as needing to be in the locked memory care floor which was almost double the price. We loved the assisted living, but the memory care floor was bananas. It was on par with One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest (the movie). All the residents were in and out of each other's rooms. They stole from each other nonstop and they partied all night long. I was there when they put all the residents down to sleep at about 9pm (and by this I mean they helped them put pajamas on, dimmed lights, etc). By 10pm they were all 100% out of their rooms and partying. Falls were handled very very poorly. My one grandma was constantly falling and they'd send her to the ER weekly. It was a state law that she couldn't have rails on her bed, which would have helped her a lot.

Well that is a facility you should run away from fast!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Facility situation you’re going to put her into is not any safer than living at home. She’s not going to get better care there so don’t fool yourself with that idea. But I’ve done caregiving for my in-home parents and I understand your burnout feeling.

OP here. It will be safer than her current home.
Downsizing (and decluttering) from a packed and cluttered 1 bedroom to a studio will help reduce trip hazards. Less turns, more “space”.
Also, when she falls - there will be people there. That is much safer than living alone.

OP just be prepared that facilities are NOT all the same. Even those that are exorbitantly expensive and "high-end". Safe can be a relative word. Adjust your expectations.

I've been to high-end facilities where you walk in and everything is calm and clean and orderly. Then you discover virtually all the residents are lying in their beds watching TV. Some aren't even watching TV - just lying there. At 11 a.m. And 3 p.m.

Why? Because they were all drugged. It's so much easier when you don't have to do anything to care for people because they aren't capable of DOING anything. That includes falls. You don't have to worry about picking them up if they aren't walking around. It's also easier on your payroll budget if you don't have to hire as many people.

Some facilities have the policy that if anyone falls the staff do not pick them up but call emergency services (911) instead. It's for liability reasons. So the people lie on the floor until EMTs arrive, they take them to hospital to be checked over and then return them to facility. And local taxpayers wind up paying for this and the facility owners laugh all the way to the bank.

The fact of the matter is that elder care is big business. It is not unusual for venture capitalists to buy up smaller facilities and then turn around and sell them to larger conglomerates, helping to establish monopolies. I've looked at licensing documents for ownership and have also been shocked when meeting some of these owners and their blatant honesty about being in it for the money and doing the bare minimum until facilities can be sold.

All I can tell you is practice due diligence and look carefully beyond the glossy pamphlets and smiles and assurances of the intake coordinators. Or their well-oiled tour that is designed to show you shiny, happy people.

Check with your state and find out about complaints. Ask other people's family members visiting the facility what their thoughts are. Maybe even stop by the nearest fire station and ask how often they get called out to the facility. See if there is a volunteer ombudsman assigned to the facility and talk to them.

obviously you must do your research. My parents are in a CCRC (still in IL). The memory care and assisted living have tons of activities daily. I've toured the facitilites. My parents know people who have transitioned there (but have a spouse still in IL so they still get brought to meals and part of the day with spouse in IL), and the facility is nothing like the horrors you describe above. Heck, the assisted living/memory care had an indoor "petting zoo" and "carnival" for residents. They have at least 1-2 major activities like this weekly, and many more smaller events for residents daily to keep them engaged.

[Anonymous]

This is so very sad.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This is so very sad.

Yes. But the alternative - death - is not usually something people prefer, except when they're suffering enormously.

I strongly believe assisted suicide should be embraced by society. Humans cannot choose whether to be born, but they sure as heck should have the right to choose when to leave!

[Anonymous]

Dying while she still recognizes family is winning. I know this sounds horrible, but it's a counterpoint to "reduced life expectancy" guilt trips.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I’m 51, my mom is 88. She is getting ready to go into a transitional independent living – assisted living – skilled nursing facility near where 3 of my siblings live. It is past time – beginning signs of dementia, fall risk, etc. As expected, her emotions are all over the place. She knows it’s time and I cannot care for her, but she wants to stay at her apartment and keeps saying she won’t bother me anymore. Every few weeks I am taking her to the ER for one issue or another. And most times her issues are dismissed because... she’s old. It is hard to diagnose causes of pain (my whole body is sore!), “wobbliness”, etc. when someone already has many underlying conditions (COPD, thyroid issues, kidney issues, compressed spinal cord, etc…). She falls, they do x-rays, but if nothing is broken, home she goes. I have been taking her out once a week for shopping over the last year – most Saturdays I spend with her. I take her to all her doctor appointments. It has been exhausting. Add in the dementia… I need someone else to take over.
A co-worker (2nd generation child of Vietnamese immigrant) made a comment about how sad we dump our elders at a time they need us. She is old and confused, she should be taken care of by family. My cousin (a doctor) said a big move like this at an advanced age decreases life expectancy.
I work full time – no way I could stay home and take care of her. Plus I have 2 teenagers that I want to be there for. Running my mom around takes time away from my children.
Honestly, I don’t feel guilty, but I do feel sad for her. Her mom was in a transitional facility for her last few years. I plan on moving into some sort of community that offers transitional care well before “it’s time”. I do not want to be a burden to my children.
However, it is an interesting observation. I know “dumping” is the American way. It is also compounded by larger age gaps. If I was retired and my children grown, I may have been more willing to do more for longer.
Thoughts? Anyone else in this boat?

My mom is 87 and I'm 55. My mom moved into independent living 5 minutes away from me at age 84 following a major depressive episode and health declines (during the covid isolation). She had been very independent, driving, doing all her cooking, etc. prior to this. Moving to independent living was a game changer for her - the social connections and provided meals and activities were game changers. All was great for 2 yrs or so though she is having further declines now. I cannot imagine having her living with me full time and honestly she has done far better in senior living than she was living with me for the 6 months before she moved in. I also have 2 teens that need me as much as my mom does. I see my mom almost daily and my 2 siblings each see her 1-2 times per week, so she gets a lot of family contact. She also has a group she dines with daily and sees at daily activities.

By contrast, when my mom's parents died, she was living a thousand miles away and only spoke to them maybe once a month. Both her parents died rather suddenly. She spent zero time doing anything resembling caring for them as they aged and never experienced the role-reversal we are doing through right now, where her children are now in the parenting role. I'm at the maximum level of caring I can do while retaining my sanity. I'm working to have enough retirement savings to live in a high quality senior living facility and not be a terrible burden to my family. Don't feel guilty about the next steps. Becoming a martyr isn't going to help your mother live longer and it's really important to have as much time with your children as possible. I also think it isn't helpful to compare your level of sacrifice with others who literally had no choice but to become their parents' 24/7 caregivers.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is so very sad.

Yes. But the alternative - death - is not usually something people prefer, except when they're suffering enormously.

I strongly believe assisted suicide should be embraced by society. Humans cannot choose whether to be born, but they sure as heck should have the right to choose when to leave!

I also agree it should be an option. I personally don't want to be around if I cannot recall who I am, who my kids and grandkids are when they visit me, etc. Doesn't seem like much of a life. However, if I'm in a wheelchair and just "age appropriate brain demise" I want to be around to enjoy life

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m 51, my mom is 88. She is getting ready to go into a transitional independent living – assisted living – skilled nursing facility near where 3 of my siblings live. It is past time – beginning signs of dementia, fall risk, etc. As expected, her emotions are all over the place. She knows it’s time and I cannot care for her, but she wants to stay at her apartment and keeps saying she won’t bother me anymore. Every few weeks I am taking her to the ER for one issue or another. And most times her issues are dismissed because... she’s old. It is hard to diagnose causes of pain (my whole body is sore!), “wobbliness”, etc. when someone already has many underlying conditions (COPD, thyroid issues, kidney issues, compressed spinal cord, etc…). She falls, they do x-rays, but if nothing is broken, home she goes. I have been taking her out once a week for shopping over the last year – most Saturdays I spend with her. I take her to all her doctor appointments. It has been exhausting. Add in the dementia… I need someone else to take over.
A co-worker (2nd generation child of Vietnamese immigrant) made a comment about how sad we dump our elders at a time they need us. She is old and confused, she should be taken care of by family. My cousin (a doctor) said a big move like this at an advanced age decreases life expectancy.
I work full time – no way I could stay home and take care of her. Plus I have 2 teenagers that I want to be there for. Running my mom around takes time away from my children.
Honestly, I don’t feel guilty, but I do feel sad for her. Her mom was in a transitional facility for her last few years. I plan on moving into some sort of community that offers transitional care well before “it’s time”. I do not want to be a burden to my children.
However, it is an interesting observation. I know “dumping” is the American way. It is also compounded by larger age gaps. If I was retired and my children grown, I may have been more willing to do more for longer.
Thoughts? Anyone else in this boat?

My mom is 87 and I'm 55. My mom moved into independent living 5 minutes away from me at age 84 following a major depressive episode and health declines (during the covid isolation). She had been very independent, driving, doing all her cooking, etc. prior to this. Moving to independent living was a game changer for her - the social connections and provided meals and activities were game changers. All was great for 2 yrs or so though she is having further declines now. I cannot imagine having her living with me full time and honestly she has done far better in senior living than she was living with me for the 6 months before she moved in. I also have 2 teens that need me as much as my mom does. I see my mom almost daily and my 2 siblings each see her 1-2 times per week, so she gets a lot of family contact. She also has a group she dines with daily and sees at daily activities.

By contrast, when my mom's parents died, she was living a thousand miles away and only spoke to them maybe once a month. Both her parents died rather suddenly. She spent zero time doing anything resembling caring for them as they aged and never experienced the role-reversal we are doing through right now, where her children are now in the parenting role. I'm at the maximum level of caring I can do while retaining my sanity. I'm working to have enough retirement savings to live in a high quality senior living facility and not be a terrible burden to my family. Don't feel guilty about the next steps. Becoming a martyr isn't going to help your mother live longer and it's really important to have as much time with your children as possible. I also think it isn't helpful to compare your level of sacrifice with others who literally had no choice but to become their parents' 24/7 caregivers.

The social aspects of Independent living are huge and many don't fully recognize that. Going to 1-2 meals a day with others is very helpful. And most IL facilities have tons of activities planned, you can pick and choose which appeal to you. My parents are more active the last 8 years in IL than they were prior. Much more social, because all they have to do is walk out of their apartment and down the hallway to join others. Each of them have 2-3 activities they engage in weekly, and many times they join others for games, knitting, random just sitting around and chatting in public areas. They are much happier there than when they were more isolated in a house and had to actually plan to gather with friends (who all lived 20-30 mins from each other).

[Anonymous]

Remember there's a transition period--sometimes called "Transition trauma" when your parent/s get adjusted to the new normal. Especially for older people, the transition period is real. Gradually, they form friendships and new routines. My Dad led a poetry session (people brought a favorite poem--even caregivers got involved). Mom appreciated that she didn't have to do laundry, cook, or clean...And we kids realized they were SAFE if they fell or grew disoriented. There are trade-offs, of course, but I've already picked out my room when the time comes!