parents want to stay in their house "as long as they can" but are no longer safe at home

[Anonymous]

There’s no rational decision making at this point on their end. They are past the point of being able to make a decision to move, much less to execute it. I think the aging evaluation is a good idea, but I would give up on the idea that your parents will respond rationally.

[Anonymous]

I've been in your scenario. Your Dad is legally competent to live his life they he sees fit for himself and his wife.

I'd back way off.

Until Dad is ready to make a change there is not much you can do.

Arguments won't work and tough love won't work.

You need to partner with Dad when situations come up to move forward.

One of the easiest changes to make is the bill pay. If you come over and the power has been shut off encourage Dad to use an accountant bill pay service (very inexpensive) or you pay the bills remotely. I would not get caregivers involved in bill pay activities.

We heard a lot of conversation about "fall risk" caring for Mom and Dad over 25 years.
Dad will be a fall risk wherever he is at. Moving to a facility does not prevent the fall risk. Walking up and down steps helps to maintain muscles. Those who walk and move around are less of a fall risk than those sitting in a lazyboy all day. On one of Dad's appointments you might see if you can get home PT to Dad's house to help with walking. The State of Maryland is very generous with this.

It ultimately took Dad having a heart event in his bathroom at night, falling, and messing up his artificial shoulder before he would agree to overnight caregivers in the home.

You sound very loving and caring. I had to back way off and overlook a lot of things.

It is okay to offer supports. Ask him open ended questions. Dad, "You have a lot on you with Mom's care. How can we help you?"

See what he wants in terms of supports.

"Dad, husband Larlo and I just switched all of our bills to electronic payment. How do you feel about that."

"Dad, with what you have going on with Mom, how can we help?"

"Dad, how would you feel if we had a lady come over 4 hours a week so you could get a break from Mom, go to the barbershop and see your friends?'

Back way off, partner with Dad on what he wants.

Old people snooze a lot. They will be napping wherever they are. Your parents worked are all their lives, let them nap.

I had to back way off. Arguments and tough love won't work with someone who is still climbing steps and still is legally competent.
As time progresses, offer to provide supports and help for what Dad wants.

If you don't already know Mom and Dad's neighbors, go around, introduce yourself and pass out your phone numbers.

Tour facilities (without your parents) in your area and in your parents area so that you know what is available.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Until they have full on dementia, they can choose to do whatever they want. Old people aren't suddenly the property of or under control of their children. You don't have to participate in the risks they take. As long as they're not hurting anybody, what does this matter? Yes, your father may suffer a gruesome fall and you find them both deceased days or weeks later. But they would have left this world the way they wish. Not a slow, boring death in a nursing home, which is what is happening to my mother after my sister--who lived close by to her, then died unexpectedly months later--pretty much made her do it. Now I'm the only one left and I'm a 4-hour car ride away. So I have to drive 8 hours in a day once a month to go sit with her, not really quite clear if she even knows which daughter she's sitting with, for an hour, and she sleeps all day every other hour of every other day of her life. Not a way to live. She wishes she had died years ago.

Wow. You blame your sister in this? Why didn't you move closer to your mom and support her?

Let me guess- it 'didn't work' for you?

[Anonymous]

If I couldn't convince them to move, I'd focus on this:

" Their home is such that they could convert to one-floor living with some rearranging, but they are not doing that. the railings on each set of stairs are old and not weight bearing, but they didn't want to install the grab-bar style railing because it was too expensive."

I would pay for and arrange all of that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Until they have full on dementia, they can choose to do whatever they want. Old people aren't suddenly the property of or under control of their children. You don't have to participate in the risks they take. As long as they're not hurting anybody, what does this matter? Yes, your father may suffer a gruesome fall and you find them both deceased days or weeks later. But they would have left this world the way they wish. Not a slow, boring death in a nursing home, which is what is happening to my mother after my sister--who lived close by to her, then died unexpectedly months later--pretty much made her do it. Now I'm the only one left and I'm a 4-hour car ride away. So I have to drive 8 hours in a day once a month to go sit with her, not really quite clear if she even knows which daughter she's sitting with, for an hour, and she sleeps all day every other hour of every other day of her life. Not a way to live. She wishes she had died years ago.

Wow. You blame your sister in this? Why didn't you move closer to your mom and support her?

Let me guess- it 'didn't work' for you?

You must be an older person who expects your kids to drop everything for you.

[Anonymous]

OP, I agree with the posters saying to back off for now. You don’t know. I was worried about a lot of this stuff (fall risk, etc.) and wish I hadn’t hectored my mom about it. She ended up dying after a weeklong, unrelated hospital stay, none of it was ever relevant in the long run.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Until they have full on dementia, they can choose to do whatever they want. Old people aren't suddenly the property of or under control of their children. You don't have to participate in the risks they take. As long as they're not hurting anybody, what does this matter? Yes, your father may suffer a gruesome fall and you find them both deceased days or weeks later. But they would have left this world the way they wish. Not a slow, boring death in a nursing home, which is what is happening to my mother after my sister--who lived close by to her, then died unexpectedly months later--pretty much made her do it. Now I'm the only one left and I'm a 4-hour car ride away. So I have to drive 8 hours in a day once a month to go sit with her, not really quite clear if she even knows which daughter she's sitting with, for an hour, and she sleeps all day every other hour of every other day of her life. Not a way to live. She wishes she had died years ago.

NP. The problem for me was in the possibility of leaving the gas on (and explosion), and/or starting a fire with the stove.

I'd work on hose grab rails and helping them convert 1st floor living for safety, but I'd also shut off any gas supply and change to an induction cooktop. minimize any fire risk, because that would mean risk to others -- both neighbors and any firefighters called to the scene.

I could live with my mother making the call to shorten her own life. I couldn't live with someone making the call to potentially kill others, as her ability to make good choices deteriorated.

I loved her, and I still do. I miss her every day. And the woman who raised me would have been appalled at putting others' lives at risk (she was a nurse, and a good one). I honored that in how we dealt with the hard choices that come at the end of a life.

[Anonymous]

^^those grab rails

[Anonymous]

You are going to have to wait until a crisis and they will not have a choice.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I've been in your scenario. Your Dad is legally competent to live his life they he sees fit for himself and his wife.

I'd back way off.

Until Dad is ready to make a change there is not much you can do.

Arguments won't work and tough love won't work.

You need to partner with Dad when situations come up to move forward.

One of the easiest changes to make is the bill pay. If you come over and the power has been shut off encourage Dad to use an accountant bill pay service (very inexpensive) or you pay the bills remotely. I would not get caregivers involved in bill pay activities.

We heard a lot of conversation about "fall risk" caring for Mom and Dad over 25 years.
Dad will be a fall risk wherever he is at. Moving to a facility does not prevent the fall risk. Walking up and down steps helps to maintain muscles. Those who walk and move around are less of a fall risk than those sitting in a lazyboy all day. On one of Dad's appointments you might see if you can get home PT to Dad's house to help with walking. The State of Maryland is very generous with this.

It ultimately took Dad having a heart event in his bathroom at night, falling, and messing up his artificial shoulder before he would agree to overnight caregivers in the home.

You sound very loving and caring. I had to back way off and overlook a lot of things.

It is okay to offer supports. Ask him open ended questions. Dad, "You have a lot on you with Mom's care. How can we help you?"

See what he wants in terms of supports.

"Dad, husband Larlo and I just switched all of our bills to electronic payment. How do you feel about that."

"Dad, with what you have going on with Mom, how can we help?"

"Dad, how would you feel if we had a lady come over 4 hours a week so you could get a break from Mom, go to the barbershop and see your friends?'

Back way off, partner with Dad on what he wants.

Old people snooze a lot. They will be napping wherever they are. Your parents worked are all their lives, let them nap.

I had to back way off. Arguments and tough love won't work with someone who is still climbing steps and still is legally competent.
As time progresses, offer to provide supports and help for what Dad wants.

If you don't already know Mom and Dad's neighbors, go around, introduce yourself and pass out your phone numbers.

Tour facilities (without your parents) in your area and in your parents area so that you know what is available.

+1 amazing post & insight - signed, someone's who's BTDT

[Anonymous]

"If you don't already know Mom and Dad's neighbors, go around, introduce yourself and pass out your phone numbers."

Stop expecting neighbors to keep an eye on your parents. I've been there and done that and it's a ridiculous burden. I had a neighbor with full blown Alzheimer's and the kids didn't believe me when I described how she was locking herself out of the house and not knowing which key fit the door or that she would "garden" in the same spot for hours. They thought I was exaggerating. She ended up falling down her basement stairs and fracturing her skull.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:"If you don't already know Mom and Dad's neighbors, go around, introduce yourself and pass out your phone numbers."

Stop expecting neighbors to keep an eye on your parents. I've been there and done that and it's a ridiculous burden. I had a neighbor with full blown Alzheimer's and the kids didn't believe me when I described how she was locking herself out of the house and not knowing which key fit the door or that she would "garden" in the same spot for hours. They thought I was exaggerating. She ended up falling down her basement stairs and fracturing her skull.

On the one hand, I don't disagree that you can expect to burden neighbors with your parents.

On the other hand, perhaps there needs to be an app where people can find each other for this kind of arrangement. So, if your parents are in DC and mine are in Boston, then the two connect and it is a reciprocal arrangement.

I have provided my information to the adult children of elderly neighbors. There is no expectation that we are monitoring their parents, but they have called a couple of times when they for some reason could not get in contact with their parents and wanted "proof of life". So far, dead cell phones or other innocuous reasons.

[Anonymous]

If the goal is to stay at home as long as possible, you can hire a service to make a plan for that. The will evaluate the house and make safety recommendations and evaluate your parents and make recommendations for help. It can be a shortterm or long term plan. They might not do anything with it, or they might take some fo the suggestions, or it might lay the groundwork for an eventual conversation about moving out.

Many elderly folks with that plan just keep going until there is a crisis that lands them in teh hospital and then they are too compromised to come home. It kind of sucks to have to find AL or SN on an emergency basis and your choices will be limited, but that is one of the trade offs.

[Anonymous]

When they say "As long as possible, " what do they mean by that? How clean do they want the house to be? How well do they want to eat? What ADLs are essential to them? What are their standards for personal hygiene?

[Anonymous]

Your parents won't be safe in assisted living either. This idea that assisted living is safer etc is just a marketing ploy.

Of course they have not converted to one floor living. They are old and need your help.

You need to cover the house to one floor living.

Move their bed downstairs. Put a gate on the stairs. Make sure their downstairs bathroom is wheelchair accessible.

Make the upstairs bedrooms habitable for you to stay in so you can visit frequently