Help me understand DD's lying and aggression

[Anonymous]

OP here. Thank you. I'll try to answer questions.

- I have tried taking away items or opportunities as punishment. I have never seen that work with her. I'm not saying it couldn't, just that I don't think it has, and maybe I haven't selected the right things or escalated the punishments appropriately.

- She's generally pretty busy after school and on weekends because she plays on several sports teams. She doesn't have much screen time, but she does slip in more screen time than necessary for homework.

- I would love to connect with her more. I often feel desperate to do so. Sometimes I spend the day begging to, proposing one activity after another, but she rarely takes me up on the offer.

- When I ask her why she engaged in this kind of behavior, the answer is always the kind of circulate deflection I described, e.g., that *I* got mad at her, even though of course I didn't get mad until after she'd engaged in the behavior.

- I take the point about not sparring with her. Just impose the discipline and maybe save the conversation about why for later, when the emotion has passed.

- She sometimes is physical with her brother. She will sometimes bite, scratch, or punch him. He might be doing things to get under her skin in those moments, but he's not threatening her physically. I am not aware of her doing this sort of thing with anyone else.

- Yes, I don't know how to deal with this. Dealing with lying and punishment with my son is very different and much more the kind of dynamic I would expect from a teen.

[Anonymous]

^ I meant circular deflection

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Getting angry is FINE in this scenario. She bit you and hurt her brother! I’m wondering where you got the idea that you shouldn’t get angry?

Anyway I think you need to work with a therapist specializing in child behavior. Not a play therapist, not a talk therapist, but a therapist that will teach you behavioral management techniques, like positive reinforcement and appropriate punishments. Because this is bad behavior and it needs to have a consistent consequence.

Consequences are going to exacerbate a kid like this. Dad needs to connect with his daughter and remove the computers and phones. Daughter needs things to do outside of the home and make friends.

I could not disagree more strongly. She needs to learn the behavior is unacceptable through a consistent structure of consequences and positive reinforcement. All the connection in the world doesn’t substitute for actual parenting with structure. Connection is important too but she bit him because she hasn’t been taught this is unacceptable, because there are no consequences, not because she uses a computer.

I think you are delusional, thinking that all it takes is tough discipline and strong structure and this is OP’s fault for being a wimp it would never happen in my house and blah blah. I only read half of OP’s post and think she should talk to the pediatrician and get a referral for a neuropsychiatric evaluation. This child has issues and the sooner they are addressed and she is helped by an expert the better.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP here. Thank you. I'll try to answer questions.

- I have tried taking away items or opportunities as punishment. I have never seen that work with her. I'm not saying it couldn't, just that I don't think it has, and maybe I haven't selected the right things or escalated the punishments appropriately.

- She's generally pretty busy after school and on weekends because she plays on several sports teams. She doesn't have much screen time, but she does slip in more screen time than necessary for homework.

- I would love to connect with her more. I often feel desperate to do so. Sometimes I spend the day begging to, proposing one activity after another, but she rarely takes me up on the offer.

- When I ask her why she engaged in this kind of behavior, the answer is always the kind of circulate deflection I described, e.g., that *I* got mad at her, even though of course I didn't get mad until after she'd engaged in the behavior.

- I take the point about not sparring with her. Just impose the discipline and maybe save the conversation about why for later, when the emotion has passed.

- She sometimes is physical with her brother. She will sometimes bite, scratch, or punch him. He might be doing things to get under her skin in those moments, but he's not threatening her physically. I am not aware of her doing this sort of thing with anyone else.

- Yes, I don't know how to deal with this. Dealing with lying and punishment with my son is very different and much more the kind of dynamic I would expect from a teen.

Your consequences aren’t working because you almost certainly haven’t been consistent with them or presented the plan to her so she understands. And she also needs positive incentives. You should find a therapist to help you with this.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Getting angry is FINE in this scenario. She bit you and hurt her brother! I’m wondering where you got the idea that you shouldn’t get angry?

Anyway I think you need to work with a therapist specializing in child behavior. Not a play therapist, not a talk therapist, but a therapist that will teach you behavioral management techniques, like positive reinforcement and appropriate punishments. Because this is bad behavior and it needs to have a consistent consequence.

Consequences are going to exacerbate a kid like this. Dad needs to connect with his daughter and remove the computers and phones. Daughter needs things to do outside of the home and make friends.

I could not disagree more strongly. She needs to learn the behavior is unacceptable through a consistent structure of consequences and positive reinforcement. All the connection in the world doesn’t substitute for actual parenting with structure. Connection is important too but she bit him because she hasn’t been taught this is unacceptable, because there are no consequences, not because she uses a computer.

I think you are delusional, thinking that all it takes is tough discipline and strong structure and this is OP’s fault for being a wimp it would never happen in my house and blah blah. I only read half of OP’s post and think she should talk to the pediatrician and get a referral for a neuropsychiatric evaluation. This child has issues and the sooner they are addressed and she is helped by an expert the better.

I mean, I’m describing a parenting approach that is well-supported by reams of research and professionals, that I have seen work in my own household. A neuropsch can be helpful but I can fast-forward and tell you exactly what the neurospych told us for disruptive behavior: seek out parenting therapy. The dx literally made zero difference. OP seems to be well intentioned but is FAR from being able to deploy the parenting skills needed here. He needs support.

[Anonymous]

Talk to adults where she plays sports to find out if she hurts other kids, gaslights them, etc. If not, that is info for her psych evaluation.
She had something wrong in her brain.

[Anonymous]

I think you'd get very different answers from special needs parents than some of these responses saying you just need to change your disciplinary approach.

A neuropsych evaluation and parent behavior therapy are good ideas.

In the meantime, read Ross Greene and maybe Kazdin.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I think you'd get very different answers from special needs parents than some of these responses saying you just need to change your disciplinary approach.

A neuropsych evaluation and parent behavior therapy are good ideas.

In the meantime, read Ross Greene and maybe Kazdin.

I AM a SN parent and I have been the one recommending that OP get help with discipline. What do you think Kazdin is all about? Discipline. That doesn’t mean “harsh punishment.” It means consistency and also positive reinforcement.

[Anonymous]

The key is to determine how she behaves outside of the house. If the same - it's her. If not, it's your parenting.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The key is to determine how she behaves outside of the house. If the same - it's her. If not, it's your parenting.

That’s a weird take.

[Anonymous]

I'd definitely do a neuropsych evaluation. She may have a mental illness that causes unnecessary lying, bipolar maybe? I have a friend with it and their lying is ridiculous.

[Anonymous]

If it's OP's parenting, what is the explanation for why the brother does not behave this way? Many people are ineffective or feckless parents and it still does not result in an 11-year-old who bites. I think something deeper is going on and would get a full evaluation.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP here. Thank you. I'll try to answer questions.

I read your answers OP. Start here.

ADHD: The 30 Essential Ideas Every Parent Needs to Know
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SCAGc-rkIfo

Parent Child Journey Class
https://www.parentchildjourney.com

Unstuck and On Target program (for Autism or ADHD)
https://www.unstuckandontarget.com

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think you'd get very different answers from special needs parents than some of these responses saying you just need to change your disciplinary approach.

A neuropsych evaluation and parent behavior therapy are good ideas.

In the meantime, read Ross Greene and maybe Kazdin.

I AM a SN parent and I have been the one recommending that OP get help with discipline. What do you think Kazdin is all about? Discipline. That doesn’t mean “harsh punishment.” It means consistency and also positive reinforcement.

+1 another SN parent here. I don't agree with most of the discipline advice on this thread, but I agree that OP needs to up their discipline game.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:If it's OP's parenting, what is the explanation for why the brother does not behave this way? Many people are ineffective or feckless parents and it still does not result in an 11-year-old who bites. I think something deeper is going on and would get a full evaluation.

Kids are different. And a diagnosis doesn’t actually give parenting skills, obviously. Parent management training is recommended for ADHD and ASD. The point is these kids need more parenting structure than NT kids. I’m not convinced this kid has a dx but the need for parenting support is the same with or without it.