Kid who can't take accountability for the smallest thing

[Anonymous]

Very helpful comments thank you!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Yes, I think she's always been like this, but it's become more noticeable lately. I think in part because she's more emotional about it and escalates things more quickly and loudly. Not to mention she's now as big as me.

No screens Monday- Thursday 4pm onward. So basically only after school to communicate and then done.

Consequences- set them and enforce them. Everyone- spouse, nanny, sitter, grandparents.

Explore adhd or asd- if executive functioning deficient and “lying” continue get tested at pediatrician. She needs help focusing. Routine, focusing, priorities, no screen distractions, no impulse eating candy. All of that can be untreated adhd.

[Anonymous]

The prior poster is correct that this is called Rejection Sensitivity Disorder and it is frequently co-morbid with ADHD and Autism spectrum disorders. It can also be totally normal teenage behavior because they are trying to be independent and establish control where they feel out of control. It can also be one way anxiety presents itself. For a kid with ADHD, they really didn’t hear you. I have ADHD and my kids say my name before they ask me a question. I frequently say to them “Listen with your eyes - aka look at me when I am speaking” and I ask them to repeat back to me what I said in their own words. I also knock before opening the door or wait a moment to start talking until I have their attention. If you don’t wait for them to pause and you interrupt their focus, they may give you a flippant answer just to make you go away. With the door closing or wandering off mid-sentence, that is also common in ADHD because their brain moves fast and they often assume they know what you will say next so when you are halfway done they are 2 steps ahead and done listening.

One of my kids has this and it’s frustrating because nothing is ever his fault. My husband has it to some extent too, but because he’s an adult he is not a rude jerk about it. The way I interpret it is that when they are corrected, questioned in a way that implies they made a mistake, or accused of something they feel deep shame and embarrassment - and the knee jerk denial, blame shifting, gas lighting, etc. is a protective reaction.

For my husband, I have learned that he knows when he screwed up and there is nothing to gain from asking him to admit it to me. There is also nothing to gain from using an I statement to tell him that I felt dismissed, disrespected, etc. In his mind, he didn’t make me feel that way with his words or actions. The easiest way for us to both get what we need is for me to say something like “next time . . . “ or “in the future . . . “ and he agrees or suggests some other option / solution. That is the equivalent for us of me saying “you messed up” and him saying “I know and I’m sorry.”

For the kid, I focus on language of choices, not character judgement. “You made a bad choice” not “you are a bad person”. We talk to him about sitting with bad feelings and understanding they will go away. We talk about having a growth mindset and learning from mistakes. We also stress that asking for help or admitting mistakes is a better choice than lying or covering it up. Finally in the homework example, we reward him for being honest. In our house if I asked about homework and he said he had none, but later I learn that was a lie, he loses screen time or another privilege for the next 24hrs. I remind him that the correct choice would have been to say “I have a bit of work, but I want to play video games to relax first.” In the second scenario we would have a quick chat about how much work and when he planned to start. For the slamming door mid-sentence issue, I try to start my statement with “I have 3 things to tell / ask you. And I hold up my fingers to count to 3 as I say them so they don’t just say “I KNOW!” after item 1.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My daughter went through this phase. I talked to her about it, and she says it felt like I was always picking on her and ganging up on her.
So, I made an effort to praise the things she did that I wanted her to repeat. Every single thing, I made sure to thank her or point it out. No negativity. No pointing out things she missed. I just ignored the bad and focused on the good.
It worked for me.

That’s great it worked for you…

But did it work for her homework, studying, lying, hygiene and garbage problem?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Yeah, this is what teenagers do. They lack accountability. Everything is everyone else's fault, all the time.

This is also adults with adhd/ asd go-to juvenile response if left untreated.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
Kids often act like this when they have been shamed for past behaviors.

Shame is usually a perception issue.

Real shaming is horrid. And rare.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP back. I'm pretty certain this is not just a phase... as one PP asked, the behavior has been there as far back as I can remember, but has become more noticeable lately. The neurodivergent comment really struck a chord with me.

I would really hate to see this behavior become so entrenched that it causes her troubles later in life. For example I see police videos on YouTube where young drivers are pulled over for routine traffic stops but they dramatically escalate the situation, and the language bears an uncanny resemblance to how my DD speaks. If there's a chance to shape DD, I feel like the time is now.

To the PP who wrote about giving DD some leash, you're making a lot of false assumptions about my parenting style, building up a scarecrow to knock down. That's not helpful here.

Quick question- what does she say about or do and a sports coach gives her individual feedback? Or a teacher?

[Anonymous]

* when a

[Anonymous]

Make sure the parents also always role model taking responsibility, apologizing, vowing to fix it and do better next time.

Does one parent deflect and blame others? If so the kid will latch on to that misbehavior.

[Anonymous]

I wrote the long post above. Lots of people focusing on punishments for your kid. Please consider changing your communication style and consider that your daughter may not be able to help her reactions - especially if she is tired after school. Even if you swear your kid doesn’t have ADHD, there is no downside to communicating respectfully and scaffolding executive function skills. I think of how I would want my boss or a coworker to interact with me. If you had a coworker who just shouted over your cube wall randomly or if your boss expected you to drop everything and meet with her on demand any time ane popped by your office, you would be annoyed too.

I have ADHD and one of my kids probably does as well. My mom does not, but she is really anxious and talks non-stop in a stream of conscious way that just assumes people around her are like Alexa/Siri always listening and waiting to chime in. I acted a lot like OP’s daughter when I was a teen because my mom was constantly interrupting my focus with her interruptions - some important, but many not. Additionally her anxiety presents as worrying a lot about what other people think and always wanting to think ahead and be prepared / mitigate potential risks. This results in a constant stream of corrections, advice, checking if I thought of X, etc.
When you have ADHD it is really hard to get back on task when you are disrupted a
if you are in a flow and hyper focused. It can feel really jarring when someone snaps you out of it. If the thing that keeps interrupting you is a mom whose comments come off as critical, it’s a perfect recipe for anger. My mom claims she is just trying to be helpful and I believe she means well, but even as a medicated adult who knows she can’t help it - it’s annoying as hell.

Wait for a good time to talk. That might mean waiting for your kid to finished a level on their game or the page they are reading. Develop a signal that tells them “please find a stopping point”. When they pause, make sure you have their full attention. Gather your thoughts and tell the kid multiple things at once to minimize the number of times you talk to them. Write them on a list or have the kid write them down or repeat them back - depending on what works for your kid. Then leave them alone and don’t check in unless they blow past the time they said they would stop playing the game and do homework- and then it’s one gentle reminder. For my kid, I just walk past and put my hand on his shoulder for a few seconds and he finds the next stopping point. For my younger kid, I signal him but also wait to make sure the transition happens.

This seems nuts - but it helps your kids not overreact or shut down - and helps them build the skills to set a time limit and transition on their own.

[Anonymous]

Adhd people always think others talk too much, do too much, or ask too much do them. Thats a maladaptive coping mechanism. Aka Shutdown Mode.

Lots of disconnects of perceptions.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I wrote the long post above. Lots of people focusing on punishments for your kid. Please consider changing your communication style and consider that your daughter may not be able to help her reactions - especially if she is tired after school. Even if you swear your kid doesn’t have ADHD, there is no downside to communicating respectfully and scaffolding executive function skills. I think of how I would want my boss or a coworker to interact with me. If you had a coworker who just shouted over your cube wall randomly or if your boss expected you to drop everything and meet with her on demand any time ane popped by your office, you would be annoyed too.

I have ADHD and one of my kids probably does as well. My mom does not, but she is really anxious and talks non-stop in a stream of conscious way that just assumes people around her are like Alexa/Siri always listening and waiting to chime in. I acted a lot like OP’s daughter when I was a teen because my mom was constantly interrupting my focus with her interruptions - some important, but many not. Additionally her anxiety presents as worrying a lot about what other people think and always wanting to think ahead and be prepared / mitigate potential risks. This results in a constant stream of corrections, advice, checking if I thought of X, etc.
When you have ADHD it is really hard to get back on task when you are disrupted a
if you are in a flow and hyper focused. It can feel really jarring when someone snaps you out of it. If the thing that keeps interrupting you is a mom whose comments come off as critical, it’s a perfect recipe for anger. My mom claims she is just trying to be helpful and I believe she means well, but even as a medicated adult who knows she can’t help it - it’s annoying as hell.

Wait for a good time to talk. That might mean waiting for your kid to finished a level on their game or the page they are reading. Develop a signal that tells them “please find a stopping point”. When they pause, make sure you have their full attention. Gather your thoughts and tell the kid multiple things at once to minimize the number of times you talk to them. Write them on a list or have the kid write them down or repeat them back - depending on what works for your kid. Then leave them alone and don’t check in unless they blow past the time they said they would stop playing the game and do homework- and then it’s one gentle reminder. For my kid, I just walk past and put my hand on his shoulder for a few seconds and he finds the next stopping point. For my younger kid, I signal him but also wait to make sure the transition happens.

This seems nuts - but it helps your kids not overreact or shut down - and helps them build the skills to set a time limit and transition on their own.

Sorry, but most people do this instinctively as part of their internal assessing and decisioning making process.

If your child does not, therapist say to “narrative aloud” the process to your ND child so they pick it up. Over and over.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I wrote the long post above. Lots of people focusing on punishments for your kid. Please consider changing your communication style and consider that your daughter may not be able to help her reactions - especially if she is tired after school. Even if you swear your kid doesn’t have ADHD, there is no downside to communicating respectfully and scaffolding executive function skills. I think of how I would want my boss or a coworker to interact with me. If you had a coworker who just shouted over your cube wall randomly or if your boss expected you to drop everything and meet with her on demand any time ane popped by your office, you would be annoyed too.

I have ADHD and one of my kids probably does as well. My mom does not, but she is really anxious and talks non-stop in a stream of conscious way that just assumes people around her are like Alexa/Siri always listening and waiting to chime in. I acted a lot like OP’s daughter when I was a teen because my mom was constantly interrupting my focus with her interruptions - some important, but many not. Additionally her anxiety presents as worrying a lot about what other people think and always wanting to think ahead and be prepared / mitigate potential risks. This results in a constant stream of corrections, advice, checking if I thought of X, etc.
When you have ADHD it is really hard to get back on task when you are disrupted a
if you are in a flow and hyper focused. It can feel really jarring when someone snaps you out of it. If the thing that keeps interrupting you is a mom whose comments come off as critical, it’s a perfect recipe for anger. My mom claims she is just trying to be helpful and I believe she means well, but even as a medicated adult who knows she can’t help it - it’s annoying as hell.

Wait for a good time to talk. That might mean waiting for your kid to finished a level on their game or the page they are reading. Develop a signal that tells them “please find a stopping point”. When they pause, make sure you have their full attention. Gather your thoughts and tell the kid multiple things at once to minimize the number of times you talk to them. Write them on a list or have the kid write them down or repeat them back - depending on what works for your kid. Then leave them alone and don’t check in unless they blow past the time they said they would stop playing the game and do homework- and then it’s one gentle reminder. For my kid, I just walk past and put my hand on his shoulder for a few seconds and he finds the next stopping point. For my younger kid, I signal him but also wait to make sure the transition happens.

This seems nuts - but it helps your kids not overreact or shut down - and helps them build the skills to set a time limit and transition on their own.

Your posts are so helpful! Thank you!!
-not OP but grateful

[Anonymous]

OP back, and thankful as well for above posts.

I've always understood that I can (and do) adjust my own communication style to suit DD, understanding she may not be able to help her reactions.

However as she grows older, the rest of the world she interacts with is not going to have the same patience or desire as a parent. I feel I need to make her self-aware so that she can be more mindful of her reactions. And a strategy of continually accommodating her behavior is not going to help us meet that goal.

I suspect DD does have some ADHD present and that plays a part in this.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I wrote the long post above. Lots of people focusing on punishments for your kid. Please consider changing your communication style and consider that your daughter may not be able to help her reactions - especially if she is tired after school. Even if you swear your kid doesn’t have ADHD, there is no downside to communicating respectfully and scaffolding executive function skills. I think of how I would want my boss or a coworker to interact with me. If you had a coworker who just shouted over your cube wall randomly or if your boss expected you to drop everything and meet with her on demand any time ane popped by your office, you would be annoyed too.

I have ADHD and one of my kids probably does as well. My mom does not, but she is really anxious and talks non-stop in a stream of conscious way that just assumes people around her are like Alexa/Siri always listening and waiting to chime in. I acted a lot like OP’s daughter when I was a teen because my mom was constantly interrupting my focus with her interruptions - some important, but many not. Additionally her anxiety presents as worrying a lot about what other people think and always wanting to think ahead and be prepared / mitigate potential risks. This results in a constant stream of corrections, advice, checking if I thought of X, etc.
When you have ADHD it is really hard to get back on task when you are disrupted a
if you are in a flow and hyper focused. It can feel really jarring when someone snaps you out of it. If the thing that keeps interrupting you is a mom whose comments come off as critical, it’s a perfect recipe for anger. My mom claims she is just trying to be helpful and I believe she means well, but even as a medicated adult who knows she can’t help it - it’s annoying as hell.

Wait for a good time to talk. That might mean waiting for your kid to finished a level on their game or the page they are reading. Develop a signal that tells them “please find a stopping point”. When they pause, make sure you have their full attention. Gather your thoughts and tell the kid multiple things at once to minimize the number of times you talk to them. Write them on a list or have the kid write them down or repeat them back - depending on what works for your kid. Then leave them alone and don’t check in unless they blow past the time they said they would stop playing the game and do homework- and then it’s one gentle reminder. For my kid, I just walk past and put my hand on his shoulder for a few seconds and he finds the next stopping point. For my younger kid, I signal him but also wait to make sure the transition happens.

This seems nuts - but it helps your kids not overreact or shut down - and helps them build the skills to set a time limit and transition on their own.

Sorry, but most people do this instinctively as part of their internal assessing and decisioning making process.

If your child does not, therapist say to “narrative aloud” the process to your ND child so they pick it up. Over and over.

NP and I don't think this is true. Not to the degree PP is mentioning, and especially the out loud part. Some internal assessment goes into most decision making, but I know what PP is talking about and it is generally anxious or high strung people that do it in the way PP mentions. And it is annoying, and exhausting, to deal with.