what is the norm in rec basketball with respect to allocating minutes across players? equal playing time?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My daughter's main sport is soccer, but she plays rec b-ball in the summer and winter.

We have always had a good experience with coaches with respect to playing time -- not necessarily with respect to teaching skills, but with respect to giving each player equal playing time.

However, this past weekend we had our first bad experience. My daughter is on a new summer 3v3 team and knows neither the coach nor the players. There were 5 players available for the game. Games are 25 minutes, so, in theory, each player should have played about 3/5 * 25 = 15 minutes. In the first game, my daughter played 7 minutes. The coach's daughter played 20 minutes. In the second game, my daughter played 10 minutes. The coach's daughter again played 20 minutes.

Having coached rec soccer over the years, I know that it is hard to make playing time perfectly even. But the coach played my daughter merely 17 minutes across two games, while her own daughter played 40 minutes. This type of asymmetry of minutes cannot be a mistake. It was intentional. BTW, these minute counts are close to accurate because I turned on a minute counter about 5 minutes into the 1st game because I sensed that something odd was happening.

Question to rec b-ball coaches: does rec b-ball typically aim for equal minutes? We follow this approach in soccer, but I'd like to understand what is the norm for b-ball.

2nd question -- if this is indeed atypical behavior, how best can I handle it? Or is this an issue that my daughter needs to take care of on her own? She is 11 years old.

Lastly, I should add that my daughter is a good player. She is significantly more skillful than the coach's daughter who has both poor dribbling and shooting skills. I don't think skill level should be a consideration with respect to allocating minutes in a rec league -- but if it were, then the coach would have to keep her own daughter on the bench for most of the game.

At very young ages yes. As kids get older, winning starts to enter into the equation and coaches are more likely to follow league rules regarding playing time than ensuring equal time. 11 is borderline. 5 is way too many for 3 on 3 25 minute games. 15 minutes is basically no playing time. When my kids do one off tournaments, just sign up with two friends and don't have a sub.

OP here. This is a summer rec league. There are no tournaments. Rosters are often 7 or 8 kids because attendance is sporadic. Normally, about 50% of a roster shows up for a game. So coaches have to deal with situations in which there are 5 or 6 kids available for a game. Now, this isn't that hard. I've filled in as a coach in prior years and I have had no trouble allocating minutes evenly across players. To be clearly, my question has nothing to do with roster size -- rather, how do you allocate minutes in a friendly rec league? This league attracts kids from a variety of sports. Most play b-ball as a 2nd or 3rd sport. In this type of league, what would be a proper minute-allocation approach for a coach to follow? In my view, the only approach that makes sense is to aim for equal minutes per player.

If I'm taking the time to volunteer for that league, my kid is getting what I consider reasonable playing time, and everyone else is slotting in. I'll hit the league rules, but that's about it. If your kid wants to play more, volunteer

OP here. That argument would carry some weight if this league had practices. There are no practices. So the coach is investing no additional time in the team compared to anybody else. In fact, the coach arrived last to the game. The other players were there early and ready to go.

Pushing back on your argument -- in the winter b-ball league we have practices, and we have never had a coach who favored his or her child over others. All kids get equal playing time. And this is the approach I use in soccer, even though I'm the coach and I invest significant time in the team. I would not feel comfortable giving my kid more minutes than some other kid who wants to be on the field or the court.

That's not true and you as a coach know it. Sending emails and setting lineups counts for something and doesn't take no time.

OP here. The game schedule is set at the beginning of the season, and the games are always played at exactly the same time on Saturday. The coach typically sends no additional emails because there is no additional information to share. Kids come to as many or as few games as they wish. When only 2 kids show up for a game, the game is recorded as a forfeit, but the kids can play 2v2 for fun if they wish to. With respect to "line-ups" -- come on, for 3v3? This is a fluid game and there really aren't any positions. A coach can't create a line-up before a game because is a crap shoot as to which players are going to show up.

Note that this particular coach didn't even bother to send us an email at the start of the season. I had to contact the league to confirm our game schedule. So no, there is ZERO effort involved in coaching in this league, particularly if you have no concern whatsoever for allocating minutes across all players.

[Anonymous]

You aren’t explaining why you didn’t step up to coach. Count yourself lucky if your kid is 11 and this is the first time you experience this.

My kid was 6 when on his first rec basketball team the coach and assistant coach’s kids played almost the entire game. Then they would put rotate three 7 year olds for the next two spots. My son and 3 other 6 year olds had to play paper rocks and scissors to choose who went in. One game my son kept losing paper rocks and scissors so he played for about 2 minutes. I called the ymca and said the sign ups said everyone plays. They said sorry they would talk to the coach but I said just give me a refund because I knew not much would change.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:You aren’t explaining why you didn’t step up to coach. Count yourself lucky if your kid is 11 and this is the first time you experience this.

My kid was 6 when on his first rec basketball team the coach and assistant coach’s kids played almost the entire game. Then they would put rotate three 7 year olds for the next two spots. My son and 3 other 6 year olds had to play paper rocks and scissors to choose who went in. One game my son kept losing paper rocks and scissors so he played for about 2 minutes. I called the ymca and said the sign ups said everyone plays. They said sorry they would talk to the coach but I said just give me a refund because I knew not much would change.

OP here. I guess we have been lucky up to this point. We have always had positive experiences in rec leagues. We have never encountered an unfair coach, and, in soccer, I would never consider giving my daughter more time than others. If anything, I tend to go in the opposite direction, giving her slightly less than her fair-share of playing time, because I don't want to create the appearance that I am playing favorites.

For the record, I checked the box "are you willing to coach if we need more coaches?". As it turned out, they didn't need more coaches. But I don't understand what this has to do with the price of tea in china. The question is this: what should coaches in rec leagues be aiming for in terms of allocating minutes?

It seems like plenty of people have had bad experiences -- have you tried to do anything about this? Any conversations with the coach?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You aren’t explaining why you didn’t step up to coach. Count yourself lucky if your kid is 11 and this is the first time you experience this.

My kid was 6 when on his first rec basketball team the coach and assistant coach’s kids played almost the entire game. Then they would put rotate three 7 year olds for the next two spots. My son and 3 other 6 year olds had to play paper rocks and scissors to choose who went in. One game my son kept losing paper rocks and scissors so he played for about 2 minutes. I called the ymca and said the sign ups said everyone plays. They said sorry they would talk to the coach but I said just give me a refund because I knew not much would change.

OP here. I guess we have been lucky up to this point. We have always had positive experiences in rec leagues. We have never encountered an unfair coach, and, in soccer, I would never consider giving my daughter more time than others. If anything, I tend to go in the opposite direction, giving her slightly less than her fair-share of playing time, because I don't want to create the appearance that I am playing favorites.

For the record, I checked the box "are you willing to coach if we need more coaches?". As it turned out, they didn't need more coaches. But I don't understand what this has to do with the price of tea in china. The question is this: what should coaches in rec leagues be aiming for in terms of allocating minutes?

It seems like plenty of people have had bad experiences -- have you tried to do anything about this? Any conversations with the coach?

NP and yes, you have been very lucky. No, you don’t say anything to the coach. It won’t end well for your kid. Make sure you aren’t on this coaches team again in a future season. That’s all you can do. Volunteer and if they don’t need you, request a different team next time you sign up.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You aren’t explaining why you didn’t step up to coach. Count yourself lucky if your kid is 11 and this is the first time you experience this.

My kid was 6 when on his first rec basketball team the coach and assistant coach’s kids played almost the entire game. Then they would put rotate three 7 year olds for the next two spots. My son and 3 other 6 year olds had to play paper rocks and scissors to choose who went in. One game my son kept losing paper rocks and scissors so he played for about 2 minutes. I called the ymca and said the sign ups said everyone plays. They said sorry they would talk to the coach but I said just give me a refund because I knew not much would change.

OP here. I guess we have been lucky up to this point. We have always had positive experiences in rec leagues. We have never encountered an unfair coach, and, in soccer, I would never consider giving my daughter more time than others. If anything, I tend to go in the opposite direction, giving her slightly less than her fair-share of playing time, because I don't want to create the appearance that I am playing favorites.

For the record, I checked the box "are you willing to coach if we need more coaches?". As it turned out, they didn't need more coaches. But I don't understand what this has to do with the price of tea in china. The question is this: what should coaches in rec leagues be aiming for in terms of allocating minutes?

It seems like plenty of people have had bad experiences -- have you tried to do anything about this? Any conversations with the coach?

NP and yes, you have been very lucky. No, you don’t say anything to the coach. It won’t end well for your kid. Make sure you aren’t on this coaches team again in a future season. That’s all you can do. Volunteer and if they don’t need you, request a different team next time you sign up.

OP here. Suppose my daughter raises the issue. If she is sitting on the bench for a long time, she could say "Coach, I've barely played today -- can you please put me in"?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You aren’t explaining why you didn’t step up to coach. Count yourself lucky if your kid is 11 and this is the first time you experience this.

My kid was 6 when on his first rec basketball team the coach and assistant coach’s kids played almost the entire game. Then they would put rotate three 7 year olds for the next two spots. My son and 3 other 6 year olds had to play paper rocks and scissors to choose who went in. One game my son kept losing paper rocks and scissors so he played for about 2 minutes. I called the ymca and said the sign ups said everyone plays. They said sorry they would talk to the coach but I said just give me a refund because I knew not much would change.

OP here. I guess we have been lucky up to this point. We have always had positive experiences in rec leagues. We have never encountered an unfair coach, and, in soccer, I would never consider giving my daughter more time than others. If anything, I tend to go in the opposite direction, giving her slightly less than her fair-share of playing time, because I don't want to create the appearance that I am playing favorites.

For the record, I checked the box "are you willing to coach if we need more coaches?". As it turned out, they didn't need more coaches. But I don't understand what this has to do with the price of tea in china. The question is this: what should coaches in rec leagues be aiming for in terms of allocating minutes?

It seems like plenty of people have had bad experiences -- have you tried to do anything about this? Any conversations with the coach?

Honestly you have been incredibly lucky. I wrote about my 6 year old. Nothing changed even after I spoke to the league and two other parents complained. Over the years my son in different sports the majority of the times the coach's kid get by far the most playing time and the best positions. One year my son as a 9 year old was playing rec soccer and kicked the ball into the goal. It hit the goalie in the face and the kid got a bloody nose. That kid's dad was furious with my son. No idea why since that is the point of the game. My son wasn't right next to the goal or goalie. His son just reacted in slow motion so the ball hit his face. My son later scored two goals. Two months later I sign my son up for basketball and that kid's dad is the coach. His son played point guard even though he was awful and my son sat. If he went in and tried to steal a ball or pop off his player to steal the ball the coach would yell at my son. He didn't want my son stealing and making a fast break down the court to score. It was ridiculous. He basically wanted my kid to be on the bench or standing in a corner of the court not involved in any way.

There is no having a conversation with the coach that works in these cases. Just try to be positive and stop timing. It will just drive you crazy. Go in thinking whatever playing time your kid gets, she gets and hope that a bunch of kids don't show. In the case of the coach who really didn't like my kid, a couple of games I texted another player's mom and asked how many players were there. If it was the full bench we didn't get out the car and just went to do something else because it was so demoralizing. It was really noticeable by others who were puzzled because my kid is a respectful kid who is really easy to coach.

[Anonymous]

JFC.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You aren’t explaining why you didn’t step up to coach. Count yourself lucky if your kid is 11 and this is the first time you experience this.

My kid was 6 when on his first rec basketball team the coach and assistant coach’s kids played almost the entire game. Then they would put rotate three 7 year olds for the next two spots. My son and 3 other 6 year olds had to play paper rocks and scissors to choose who went in. One game my son kept losing paper rocks and scissors so he played for about 2 minutes. I called the ymca and said the sign ups said everyone plays. They said sorry they would talk to the coach but I said just give me a refund because I knew not much would change.

OP here. I guess we have been lucky up to this point. We have always had positive experiences in rec leagues. We have never encountered an unfair coach, and, in soccer, I would never consider giving my daughter more time than others. If anything, I tend to go in the opposite direction, giving her slightly less than her fair-share of playing time, because I don't want to create the appearance that I am playing favorites.

For the record, I checked the box "are you willing to coach if we need more coaches?". As it turned out, they didn't need more coaches. But I don't understand what this has to do with the price of tea in china. The question is this: what should coaches in rec leagues be aiming for in terms of allocating minutes?

It seems like plenty of people have had bad experiences -- have you tried to do anything about this? Any conversations with the coach?

NP and yes, you have been very lucky. No, you don’t say anything to the coach. It won’t end well for your kid. Make sure you aren’t on this coaches team again in a future season. That’s all you can do. Volunteer and if they don’t need you, request a different team next time you sign up.

OP here. Suppose my daughter raises the issue. If she is sitting on the bench for a long time, she could say "Coach, I've barely played today -- can you please put me in"?

She and the other bench players can start clapping every time the coach's daughter screws up. Maybe they can strike up a "Larla sucks" chant

[Anonymous]

Did you have a stop watch to record playing times?

If your daughter didn’t know the game she would be slowing down the players who did know it. Have her learn the game before the practice next time.

[Anonymous]

At 11 basketball gets fairly serious for good player. I would either put up or pull my kid if playing time is not adequate. No need to to waste time. Sign her up for an actual basketball camp if she likes basketball.

[Anonymous]

When I’ve run into this situation, I usually let the following questions guide me.

Has my child mentioned it or is it just my husband and me annoyed by it?
Has it happened repeatedly? To other kids or just my child?
How into the sport is my child?
How long is the season? Will we miss a bunch of games or practices?

I tend not to say anything, but will if my child has noticed, is bothered by it and is into the sport. It is not relevant in your case, but I also make sure my child has been attending practices.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Did you have a stop watch to record playing times?

If your daughter didn’t know the game she would be slowing down the players who did know it. Have her learn the game before the practice next time.

OP here. My daughter has played rec b-ball for 5 years, both in winter and summer leagues. She has strong skills and is an order of magnitude better than the coach's daughter who has weak dribbling and shooting skills, can't play defense worth a darn, and is overweight and slow.

My kid is a multisport athlete, and has excellent conditioning as a result of travel soccer. In the few minutes my kid was in the game this past weekend, she scored repeatedly.

So this isn't a question of b-ball skills. My daughter is a strong player. She isn't slowing anybody down. The team played much better when she was on the court.

[Anonymous]

What does your league's manual say? I would pull it up and go by that.

We don't play summer basketball's but in the spring, we were required to play each girl 2 quarters unless a girl shows up late.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Did you have a stop watch to record playing times?

If your daughter didn’t know the game she would be slowing down the players who did know it. Have her learn the game before the practice next time.

OP here. My daughter has played rec b-ball for 5 years, both in winter and summer leagues. She has strong skills and is an order of magnitude better than the coach's daughter who has weak dribbling and shooting skills, can't play defense worth a darn, and is overweight and slow.

My kid is a multisport athlete, and has excellent conditioning as a result of travel soccer. In the few minutes my kid was in the game this past weekend, she scored repeatedly.

So this isn't a question of b-ball skills. My daughter is a strong player. She isn't slowing anybody down. The team played much better when she was on the court.

Wow. Maybe the coach sensed that your daughter has the same attitude problem that you appear to have.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:At 11 basketball gets fairly serious for good player. I would either put up or pull my kid if playing time is not adequate. No need to to waste time. Sign her up for an actual basketball camp if she likes basketball.

OP here. This league is not for the ultra competitive player who wants to focus on b-ball. There might be one or two travel players in the league, and that is it. The typical player is a multi-sport athlete who enjoys b-ball but lacks time for a travel team. My daughter falls into this category. All other coaches in the league, as far as I can tell, treat their players with respect, and give them equal time on the court. The only coach that violates this unwritten rule is the one that my daughter plays for.

Yes, we would go for b-ball camp, but summer 3v3 has been great up to this point. I guess our luck ran out, but, in general, the coaches in this league have the right attitude and create a could atmosphere for their players. Our coach is the anomaly.