what is the norm in rec basketball with respect to allocating minutes across players? equal playing time?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:At 11 basketball gets fairly serious for good player. I would either put up or pull my kid if playing time is not adequate. No need to to waste time. Sign her up for an actual basketball camp if she likes basketball.

OP here. This league is not for the ultra competitive player who wants to focus on b-ball. There might be one or two travel players in the league, and that is it. The typical player is a multi-sport athlete who enjoys b-ball but lacks time for a travel team. My daughter falls into this category. All other coaches in the league, as far as I can tell, treat their players with respect, and give them equal time on the court. The only coach that violates this unwritten rule is the one that my daughter plays for.

Yes, we would go for b-ball camp, but summer 3v3 has been great up to this point. I guess our luck ran out, but, in general, the coaches in this league have the right attitude and create a could atmosphere for their players. Our coach is the anomaly.

Above, I meant "create a GOOD atmosphere for the players"

[Anonymous]

You are calling an 11 year old girl fat and slow. You belong nowhere near youth athletics.

[Anonymous]

The rule is equal playing time, I used to use a chart to make sure everyone got equal time but any odd slots left over went to the best players. That being said, there is no enforcement at all, so the coaches do whatever they want. The leagues need the coaches because they never have enough volunteers so don't expect much to happen if you complain.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:At 11 basketball gets fairly serious for good player. I would either put up or pull my kid if playing time is not adequate. No need to to waste time. Sign her up for an actual basketball camp if she likes basketball.

Not sure why a really good player would be playing rec league. I was always amazed at how angry coaches got when a rec league game didn't go their way. Wins and losses are based on your luck of the draw in the roster assignment, not because you are Bobby Knight Jr.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:What does your league's manual say? I would pull it up and go by that.

We don't play summer basketball's but in the spring, we were required to play each girl 2 quarters unless a girl shows up late.

OP here. There is a manual for the winter league, but none for the summer league. The manual for the winter league strongly encourages coaches to aim for equal time per player, but stops short of demanding equal time. In practice, in either summer or winter league, I have never encountered a coach who was grossly unfair with minutes.

In the winter league, the league requires the team to keep a log book which tracks each player's time. The purpose of the book is to ensure that all players get a reasonable amount of time on the court.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:You are calling an 11 year old girl fat and slow. You belong nowhere near youth athletics.

OP -- good grief. In this anonymous forum, I stated that she is overweight (not "fat") and slow, which is 100% accurate, and I stated this in response to somebody who said that perhaps my daughter was slowing the team down. My kid is athletic, fast, and with solid b-ball skills. So the situation has absolutely nothing to do with b-ball skills, and everything to do with the fact that the coach has decided to completely abandon any sense of fairness or decency.

In 5 years of coaching soccer, I've never said anything insulting to a player, and I've always treated players fairly with respect to playing time. The other coaches I know take the same approach, so this particular coach comes as a bit of a shock to me.

[Anonymous]

I’d suggest helping your daughter learn to speak up. I’ve coached rec league soccer for the past few years and it can be really confusing and chaotic as the coach.

In one game, I accidentally sat one kid for 2 quarters and let someone else play the whole game. It was a completely honest mistake—the other team was short players so we loaned some of ours, a few kids got hurt and had to come out, and they were all yelling and horsing around on the sidelines in the insane way that third graders do and I just got confused.

Nobody said anything, so I discovered my mistake at the very end of the game. The kid who sat out was quiet and well behaved so I kind of forgot about them. Again, completely my fault but I reminded everyone next time that they should always speak up if I make that kind of mistake. And even if I don’t make a mistake, they should speak up and let me know that they’re eager to play (or not).

I have a few kids on my rec team who are there because their parents make them. Those kids hate to play (and sometimes are very quiet). They’ll ask if they can NOT play as long as they play the first two quarters so I’m trying to accommodate those kids too.

All of this to say that it’s a great chance to teach your daughter about self-advocacy and to articulate her needs and wants to a coach.

And as a coach, I hope you give the volunteer coach the benefit of the doubt!

[Anonymous]

Depends on age. 5th grade and up you will see this and I think it’s normal. Below 5th, this would be unusual and inappropriate.

As someone who played basketball many years for many types of coaches, it’s good practice for life. You’ll have some bosses underestimate you, have to work harder or try something different, etc. And you’ll see other people get things you don’t and have to cope. So I’d welcome the occasion to build those concepts with your kid!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Depends on age. 5th grade and up you will see this and I think it’s normal. Below 5th, this would be unusual and inappropriate.

As someone who played basketball many years for many types of coaches, it’s good practice for life. You’ll have some bosses underestimate you, have to work harder or try something different, etc. And you’ll see other people get things you don’t and have to cope. So I’d welcome the occasion to build those concepts with your kid!

OP here. Yes, after last Saturday's games, I told my daughter precisely this message. I've told her that this season is probably going to be a difficult experience and we will do our best to navigate it.

It is possible that this was an innocent mistake on the part of the other coach, but it seems unlikely because the math wasn't that complicated -- it is 3v3 basketball and you have 5 players -- it isn't terrible complicated to balance out the minutes.

I've certainly lost track of minutes a few times as a coach, but not in such a simple situation. Its much easier to lose track in an 11v11 soccer game with a roster of 16 kids. There are lot of players to consider. Not so in 3v3 basketball with a roster of 5.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:So why didn’t you step up to coach? Then someone else would be holding a stopwatch and not you.
And at 11 years old why are they playing 3 on 3 instead of 5 v 5?

OP here. I checked the box indicating that I was available to coach. However, they had enough coaches.

In the summer, this league plays 3v3, presumably because so many kids are traveling at least part of the summer. There wouldn't be many teams if we played 5v5.

[Anonymous]

which league is this specifically? Every rec league has play time rules. There is simply no way there are no rules.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:which league is this specifically? Every rec league has play time rules. There is simply no way there are no rules.

Arlington summer 3v3

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You aren’t explaining why you didn’t step up to coach. Count yourself lucky if your kid is 11 and this is the first time you experience this.

My kid was 6 when on his first rec basketball team the coach and assistant coach’s kids played almost the entire game. Then they would put rotate three 7 year olds for the next two spots. My son and 3 other 6 year olds had to play paper rocks and scissors to choose who went in. One game my son kept losing paper rocks and scissors so he played for about 2 minutes. I called the ymca and said the sign ups said everyone plays. They said sorry they would talk to the coach but I said just give me a refund because I knew not much would change.

OP here. I guess we have been lucky up to this point. We have always had positive experiences in rec leagues. We have never encountered an unfair coach, and, in soccer, I would never consider giving my daughter more time than others. If anything, I tend to go in the opposite direction, giving her slightly less than her fair-share of playing time, because I don't want to create the appearance that I am playing favorites.

For the record, I checked the box "are you willing to coach if we need more coaches?". As it turned out, they didn't need more coaches. But I don't understand what this has to do with the price of tea in china. The question is this: what should coaches in rec leagues be aiming for in terms of allocating minutes?

It seems like plenty of people have had bad experiences -- have you tried to do anything about this? Any conversations with the coach?

NP and yes, you have been very lucky. No, you don’t say anything to the coach. It won’t end well for your kid. Make sure you aren’t on this coaches team again in a future season. That’s all you can do. Volunteer and if they don’t need you, request a different team next time you sign up.

OP here. Suppose my daughter raises the issue. If she is sitting on the bench for a long time, she could say "Coach, I've barely played today -- can you please put me in"?

That would be better but don’t be too hopeful that anything will change. Start observing the other teams so you can see if it is just this coach or the entire league. If it’s just the coach, avoid this team next time. If it’s common, sign up or try out someplace else.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:which league is this specifically? Every rec league has play time rules. There is simply no way there are no rules.

Arlington summer 3v3

Don't they play TWO games a day in the timespan of an hour or 90 minutes? And there can be 7-8 players - 3 players and 4-5 subs. You got lucky that only 5 girls showed up so you assume your daughter should get 3/5 or 60% playing time out of around 24 minutes. Just imagine that 7 or even 8 players showed up. She would have gotten 3/8 playing time. That is only 37% playing time. So that is only 9 minutes out of 24.

You need to chill out and accept life isn't fair. Some weeks everyone shows up and you get less playing times, sometimes only 4 kids show up and you play a lot. You don't know the coach or the kid. For all you know the players who are playing more besides the coach's daughter are her best friends and/or cousins. Not that it makes it right but that's just how it ends up working out. Maybe the grandparents were in town so the coach played his daughter more.

Maybe the coach thinks it is rec and your daughter doesn't need as much time to improve so he would rather put in weaker players. Or maybe your daughters a ball hog and the coach is mad she doesn't pass and just shoots. Was it evenly matched or your team was up? Maybe the coach didn't want to run up the score and your kid scored too much. And maybe the coach just wants to play his daughter more bc he can. There are so many variables that you need to get over it. Stop timing to see how much playing time, it is only going to drive you crazy. Really the only thing you need to say about the game to your daughter is - hope you had fun, I love to watch you play.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:which league is this specifically? Every rec league has play time rules. There is simply no way there are no rules.

Arlington summer 3v3

Don't they play TWO games a day in the timespan of an hour or 90 minutes? And there can be 7-8 players - 3 players and 4-5 subs. You got lucky that only 5 girls showed up so you assume your daughter should get 3/5 or 60% playing time out of around 24 minutes. Just imagine that 7 or even 8 players showed up. She would have gotten 3/8 playing time. That is only 37% playing time. So that is only 9 minutes out of 24.

You need to chill out and accept life isn't fair. Some weeks everyone shows up and you get less playing times, sometimes only 4 kids show up and you play a lot. You don't know the coach or the kid. For all you know the players who are playing more besides the coach's daughter are her best friends and/or cousins. Not that it makes it right but that's just how it ends up working out. Maybe the grandparents were in town so the coach played his daughter more.

Maybe the coach thinks it is rec and your daughter doesn't need as much time to improve so he would rather put in weaker players. Or maybe your daughters a ball hog and the coach is mad she doesn't pass and just shoots. Was it evenly matched or your team was up? Maybe the coach didn't want to run up the score and your kid scored too much. And maybe the coach just wants to play his daughter more bc he can. There are so many variables that you need to get over it. Stop timing to see how much playing time, it is only going to drive you crazy. Really the only thing you need to say about the game to your daughter is - hope you had fun, I love to watch you play.

OP here. Not sure you read my initial post. You mention that my daughter would have played only 9 minutes out of 24 had 8 players showed up. In fact, my daughter played just 7 minutes (in the 1st game) despite the fact only 5 kids were available. The coach's daughter played 20 minutes. The average kid played 3/5 * 25 = 15 minutes.

We will see what happens this upcoming Saturday. Hopefully, the situation will improve. If not, my daughter and I will talk it over and decide whether or not to attempt to remedy the problem.