Entitled, jaded ds

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My ds is entitled and always sort of mean, without truly being rude in ways I can pinpoint. He looks down on us, thinks we are clueless about money and expenses because we won't just buy certain things he thinks are "worth it", thinks he knows better always. I don't even want to be around him. I am thinking of not going away as a family this summer because of it. I am not sure what to do about it. He does do chores and he also works and does well in school. He's just rotten to be around.

Going to play Devil’s advocate here;
What exactly do you mean “certain things he thinks are ‘worth it’”?

Like, is he being shallow or does he have good points but it’s mixed with an arrogant teenage attitude?

For example, are you getting the cheap offbrand paper towels that require 1/4th of the roll to wipe up a spill? Vs the name brand that might actually end up being cheaper in the long run since you don’t run out as quickly?

I was taught quality over quantity

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My ds is entitled and always sort of mean, without truly being rude in ways I can pinpoint. He looks down on us, thinks we are clueless about money and expenses because we won't just buy certain things he thinks are "worth it", thinks he knows better always. I don't even want to be around him. I am thinking of not going away as a family this summer because of it. I am not sure what to do about it. He does do chores and he also works and does well in school. He's just rotten to be around.

Going to play Devil’s advocate here;
What exactly do you mean “certain things he thinks are ‘worth it’”?

Like, is he being shallow or does he have good points but it’s mixed with an arrogant teenage attitude?

For example, are you getting the cheap offbrand paper towels that require 1/4th of the roll to wipe up a spill? Vs the name brand that might actually end up being cheaper in the long run since you don’t run out as quickly?

I was taught quality over quantity

No, it usually is about big stuff like he’d love to eat out a lot, prefers fancy hotels, thinks we should have a pool, would not be okay being seen driving a certain car…He is very impressed by displays of wealth. We are normal not wealthy people. Even if it were paper towels it would not be ok at all imo. I would never have dreamt of criticizing my parents’ tp choices!

[Anonymous]

I think you need to shut down the comments, because they are rude. If he is openly saying these things to do, it is unacceptable. If he doesn’t like the hotel you pick, then make him pay his share for his room. If he doesn’t like the kind of car you drive, he can pay for rides in it. You should also tell him, when you are both calm, that you know his job as a teen is to pull away from you to find his own identity, but you will not tolerate disrespect, and hope he never acts like this with others. He can have his opinions, but he needs to be socially appropriate, and the content of his character is the most important thing.

I would also get the whole family involved in service projects that directly involve hands on work with disadvantaged people.

Just stop him when you see the attitude about this and feel free to point out that people are starving in the world and having bombs dropped on them.

[Anonymous]

Set boundaries. Say something like, “I am not taking financial advice from a teenager,” and walk away without discussing further. Don’t debate.

If your child is asking for things, you can set boundaries there too: “We have budgeted x dollars for your [athletic clothing/entertainment/computer]. If you want the top-of-the-line item, that’s fine, but it won’t cause us to shift our budget. You can forgo other things or make up the shortfall from your own savings. Something useful my parents did when I was a teen was to put my allowance for all personal expenses (clothes, haircuts, school supplies) into a joint account with an ATM card. If I wanted more money, I could get a job. And I had to learn how to budget so that I could go to a movie or get prom tickets when I wanted them.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't put this down to, "He's just being a teen".

I have teens - 15 and 18 yr olds. Sure, they think they know more than us when it comes to social and cultural things of today, but not about general living, certainly not about money.

We talk to them about finances, taxes, investments, opportunity costs, etc... They know they don't know it all.

Op's kid is ignorantly arrogant, and IMO, that is the worst kind.

I think OP needs to have a talk with their DS about respect and what they don't know. How much it costs to live: taxes, rent, utilities, food, every time you go out how much you spend, how buying an expensive car comes with expensive repair costs, and how that car depreciates x% the minute you drive off the lot.

These are not things that kids inherently understand without it being explained to them. A long time ago when we were on summer vacation in England, we would have ice cream almost everyday. DS asked us how much they cost, so we told them. Then he calculated how much we had spent on ice cream alone while in England. He was floored. And he was like 10 at the time. He's become quite frugal now at 18; he's been working since 16.

And yes, make them work a minimum wage job.

The thing is: we DO have those conversations a lot! And he takes financial literacy at school which is all about living expenses, taxes...But it is not sinking in at all. He is frugal with his own money.

He's arrogant and thinks he knows better than you do after taking a few classes, as if that's all that's required to be financially savvy and knowledgeable. It's leading to him being disrespectful to you.

I would have a chat with him about being respectful to his parents. He can have his own opinions, my DS does, too, and thinks I'm wrong half the time. I still don't tolerate disrespect from him. We have conversations. I try to listen to him (not always easy), and we have "discussions" about it. He was also on the debate team, so he knows how to argue.

If he argues about what he thinks you should buy, just tell him that he is free to buy whatever he wants when he's working and has his own money. But for now, you are the parent, and you will be making the decisions.

If things get worse, and he thinks so little of you, he's free to try to make it on his own, including paying for college. You can let him know that your "dumb" financial mind was able to save for his college (assuming you have).

I would be serious about that because of how little respect he's showing you.

I once worked with a woman who had a seriously acrimonious relationship with her son. When he turned 18, she decided to let him figure it out by himself. He went into the military, and came out disciplined and respectful. They ended up having a great relationship.

Sometimes, it just takes a little dose of reality and being put in your place for the "young adult" to respect you.

+1. At this point, he's just being a jerk. He needs to be taught that it doesn't matter if he's right, he can't be disrespectful to you.

[Anonymous]

It sounds like you're doing great, OP!

Your DS is a teenager. He's trying to figure things out. Where does he agree with you and DH, and where does he not? Where is he willing to go along with the family values, and where does he want to distinguish himself (in this case by admiring/seeking more expensive things)?

All normal - this is what being a teen is about in many ways - but it sounds like he has the type of personality where he's figuring it out by verbalizing his every thought in a way that criticizes and insults you all, and makes you feel unappreciated and taken for granted.

His tastes and preferences are fine - they are different to yours, but that's ok. They are what they are, and I wouldn't at all assume this is the way they'll always be. He may be trying out a wanna-be identity of that Richie Rich type of kid. Who knows. Teens go through all sorts of phases.

Two pieces of practical advice:

When he opines on all the fancy and expensive things he wants/admires for this stage of his life (teenage status-signalling stuff), I'd just smile blandly and say, "Nice. That's a great use of the money you're earning at [job]. And remember, you can always ask for money towards that for your birthday/Christmas." You say that he's cheap when it comes to spending his own money - that's completely typical for teens. So just keep pointing him back in that direction, and at some point he'll see he's not getting anywhere with you and will either spend his money or stop.

When it comes to the bigger stuff (fancy hotels and cars, etc.), I'd stick to the same. "Mmm. Sounds nice. I can totally see you doing that when you're older and have a big job." That's it. If he moans or complains about why you aren't buying or doing those things now, again, keep it simple. "Yeah, that's not the way we roll. But you can totally do that when you're working after college!" If his wants are unrealistic (which it sounds like they are for a first job out of college), he'll figure it out as he goes along later.

Finally, his rude, condescending, complaining BEHAVIOR is not at all ok. So nip that in the bud. "Yeah, you've told us. You think this is lame. Enough." Or "Yeah, that's rude. And you know it's not the way we talk to each other around here. Just stop." Again, and again and again.

He's not going to change overnight. He's going to keep articulating his rude/obnoxious/ungrateful/pity-party thoughts about why you all don't buy/do all the fancy things he wants. But if you keep it simple and consistent by shutting it down every time (without being dragged into arguments!), he'll learn to STFU.

Last point, based on our own experience around here: Lecturing or punishing teens for "not being grateful" is not going to get results. Some teens are just so self-absorbed that actual gratitude is out of reach for them right now. Focus on shutting down the obnoxious BEHAVIOR every time. And trust that his VALUES may become more aligned with yours over time, as he matures.

For some teens, appreciation and gratitude comes much, much later than for others. Keep focusing on living your values and keeping his behavior in check. Good luck!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It sounds like you're doing great, OP!

Your DS is a teenager. He's trying to figure things out. Where does he agree with you and DH, and where does he not? Where is he willing to go along with the family values, and where does he want to distinguish himself (in this case by admiring/seeking more expensive things)?

All normal - this is what being a teen is about in many ways - but it sounds like he has the type of personality where he's figuring it out by verbalizing his every thought in a way that criticizes and insults you all, and makes you feel unappreciated and taken for granted.

His tastes and preferences are fine - they are different to yours, but that's ok. They are what they are, and I wouldn't at all assume this is the way they'll always be. He may be trying out a wanna-be identity of that Richie Rich type of kid. Who knows. Teens go through all sorts of phases.

Two pieces of practical advice:

When he opines on all the fancy and expensive things he wants/admires for this stage of his life (teenage status-signalling stuff), I'd just smile blandly and say, "Nice. That's a great use of the money you're earning at [job]. And remember, you can always ask for money towards that for your birthday/Christmas." You say that he's cheap when it comes to spending his own money - that's completely typical for teens. So just keep pointing him back in that direction, and at some point he'll see he's not getting anywhere with you and will either spend his money or stop.

When it comes to the bigger stuff (fancy hotels and cars, etc.), I'd stick to the same. "Mmm. Sounds nice. I can totally see you doing that when you're older and have a big job." That's it. If he moans or complains about why you aren't buying or doing those things now, again, keep it simple. "Yeah, that's not the way we roll. But you can totally do that when you're working after college!" If his wants are unrealistic (which it sounds like they are for a first job out of college), he'll figure it out as he goes along later.

Finally, his rude, condescending, complaining BEHAVIOR is not at all ok. So nip that in the bud. "Yeah, you've told us. You think this is lame. Enough." Or "Yeah, that's rude. And you know it's not the way we talk to each other around here. Just stop." Again, and again and again.

He's not going to change overnight. He's going to keep articulating his rude/obnoxious/ungrateful/pity-party thoughts about why you all don't buy/do all the fancy things he wants. But if you keep it simple and consistent by shutting it down every time (without being dragged into arguments!), he'll learn to STFU.

Last point, based on our own experience around here: Lecturing or punishing teens for "not being grateful" is not going to get results. Some teens are just so self-absorbed that actual gratitude is out of reach for them right now. Focus on shutting down the obnoxious BEHAVIOR every time. And trust that his VALUES may become more aligned with yours over time, as he matures.

For some teens, appreciation and gratitude comes much, much later than for others. Keep focusing on living your values and keeping his behavior in check. Good luck!

+1. This is a behavioral issue.

[Anonymous]

Look, you come across as looking down on your kid. You say your kid is impressed by displays of wealth. The implication is that you think such displays are unworthy. You say your kid is judgmental of you but you come across as very judgmental of your kid and what’s important to your kid. You also describe your kid as “rotten” and that is pretty disrespectful. Are you sure your kid is not partly reacting to the way he is being treated? Are you being dismissive of him and his point of view?
When I was a teenager I wanted a Porsche. My parents did not tell me that was a stupid display of wealth. They thought it was perfectly understandable that I would want a Porsche. It’s a cool car! We didn’t have such cars, as an adult I do not want such a car, but the fact that I briefly wanted one as a teenager did not mean I was fundamentally rotten.
I really think the source of your kid’s attitude towards you may be your attitude towards your kid.
Just the fact that you’re thinking about canceling your summer plans because your kid is not acting the way you want. Do you want a relationship with your child? Do you want to get closer? Do you think the way to get closer is to *cancel family trips* and blame it on them? Would you feel closer to your spouse if your spouse said they didn’t want to go on a trip with you until you improved your attitude?
I’m just not feeling a lot of unconditional love emanating from you and children are very sensitive to the lack of that. They will respond accordingly, and you can blame it on them, but I don’t think that’s what the source of it is.
The next time they expressed an interest in an ostentatious display of wealth, why don’t you ask them what color they would get if they could buy it, and why they like it over some other style, and express a wish that they could have it. Join them in their world for a little while, rather than just disparaging it, and maybe they will be less disparaging of your world.