Brown reinstating SATs/ACT requirements

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My Senior kicked butt on standardized tests...of course, it's the year after him they come back.

Same here, but his grades were mediocre. Based on his outcomes, I think colleges have already started implementing Test-preferred policies.

I am so annoyed by these uninformed posts. You have no understanding of why they are reinstating. It's not so kids who "kick butt" on standardized tests can get in over others who people like you perceive of unworthy because they have a lower score. It's so people who do really well (1350+) submit their scores and show schools that they are capable of doing the work, despite a crappy education. This is not to let more 1600 students over potential 1400 students. Those of you with the high scores are actually at an even great disadvantage with test required. I can't believe how obtuse you all are to not understand this.

I bet you do since you got the memo and we didn't.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:More than likely they got wind of some federal entity looking to investigate their TO application fee bonanza. More than likely they applied filters and got rid of a sizeable chunk of the applications before starting to read and if i was part of that chunk, I'd want my money back or at least penalize them. This could be a way of them getting ready to respond "Oh yeah! Covid. Now that we are past that, look we are back to objective measurement" and beg for mercy.

And what would the federal entity look at? What would be the crime? Taking money is not a crime.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Welfare check on the TESTING IS NEVER COMING BACK! brigade, please.

I mean…Columbia went permanently TO. Cornell announced that it’s extending TO. Michigan is permanently TO. The UC schools are permanently test-blind. Amherst, Pomona, and a number of other top-ranked SLACs are permanently TO. The vast majority of schools outside the ~50 people on here talk about are still TO and don’t seem to be signaling any change.

I think testing is going to come back for a small subset of schools that have huge numbers of applications and want to use tests to cull applicants easily, and at public schools in some red states.

I think the “TO is over” folks are reading the evidence very selectively.

First, nothing is permanent. I agree Cal schools will not come back; Pomona also. Columbia will be test required before long as will Cornell and Michigan. They have to given the moves already.

As to why -- they are of the view that the test score is a better predictor of first year performance. Better than inflated grades.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My Senior kicked butt on standardized tests...of course, it's the year after him they come back.

Same here, but his grades were mediocre. Based on his outcomes, I think colleges have already started implementing Test-preferred policies.

I am so annoyed by these uninformed posts. You have no understanding of why they are reinstating. It's not so kids who "kick butt" on standardized tests can get in over others who people like you perceive of unworthy because they have a lower score. It's so people who do really well (1350+) submit their scores and show schools that they are capable of doing the work, despite a crappy education. This is not to let more 1600 students over potential 1400 students. Those of you with the high scores are actually at an even great disadvantage with test required. I can't believe how obtuse you all are to not understand this.

That's also simplistic. I think the test requirement will likely help two groups - (1) students from underprivileged schools/backgrounds who score relatively high (but not in the 35+/1500+ range), especially compared to the average score at their school and (2) students with a privileged background (private school, socioeconomic status) who score extremely high but were competing with TO privileged applicants from their own school.

[Anonymous]

If you listen to podcasts , you knew Brown was going to do this two months ago.

There are no other T20 schools that have indicated that they are planning to do this (as of yet).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Welfare check on the TESTING IS NEVER COMING BACK! brigade, please.

I mean…Columbia went permanently TO. Cornell announced that it’s extending TO. Michigan is permanently TO. The UC schools are permanently test-blind. Amherst, Pomona, and a number of other top-ranked SLACs are permanently TO. The vast majority of schools outside the ~50 people on here talk about are still TO and don’t seem to be signaling any change.

I think testing is going to come back for a small subset of schools that have huge numbers of applications and want to use tests to cull applicants easily, and at public schools in some red states.

I think the “TO is over” folks are reading the evidence very selectively.

First, nothing is permanent. I agree Cal schools will not come back; Pomona also. Columbia will be test required before long as will Cornell and Michigan. They have to given the moves already.

As to why -- they are of the view that the test score is a better predictor of first year performance. Better than inflated grades.

Well, sure…in which case Yale, Dartmouth, and Brown could eliminate tests again at some point!

The point is, there is no indication that TO is going away broadly. Many schools were TO before the pandemic. Some will shift back to requiring tests in the coming years. Others will stake out some new ground. Many (probably most) will stay test optional. The idea that what Dartmouth, Yale, and Brown have done portends some great pendulum swing back to test-required is not grounded in any evidence.

Here’s the thing—I don’t really care. My TO kid got into a great school this year, and my next kid always planned to submit scores. I think test optional is great because it allows every kid to put their best foot forward. But truly, whatever. I just think the wishcasting among the folks who have decided standardized testing is the One True Indicator is ridiculous and makes people who think they are smart sound really dumb.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Welfare check on the TESTING IS NEVER COMING BACK! brigade, please.

I mean…Columbia went permanently TO. Cornell announced that it’s extending TO. Michigan is permanently TO. The UC schools are permanently test-blind. Amherst, Pomona, and a number of other top-ranked SLACs are permanently TO. The vast majority of schools outside the ~50 people on here talk about are still TO and don’t seem to be signaling any change.

I think testing is going to come back for a small subset of schools that have huge numbers of applications and want to use tests to cull applicants easily, and at public schools in some red states.

I think the “TO is over” folks are reading the evidence very selectively.

First, nothing is permanent. I agree Cal schools will not come back; Pomona also. Columbia will be test required before long as will Cornell and Michigan. They have to given the moves already.

As to why -- they are of the view that the test score is a better predictor of first year performance. Better than inflated grades.

Cornell already extended test optional for next year. I have no idea what you’re talking about.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Welfare check on the TESTING IS NEVER COMING BACK! brigade, please.

I mean…Columbia went permanently TO. Cornell announced that it’s extending TO. Michigan is permanently TO. The UC schools are permanently test-blind. Amherst, Pomona, and a number of other top-ranked SLACs are permanently TO. The vast majority of schools outside the ~50 people on here talk about are still TO and don’t seem to be signaling any change.

I think testing is going to come back for a small subset of schools that have huge numbers of applications and want to use tests to cull applicants easily, and at public schools in some red states.

I think the “TO is over” folks are reading the evidence very selectively.

If Brown is going back to test required, along with Dartmouth etc, it's pretty clear the "TO" schools are only lip service and in practice those who don't submit scores will not be evaluated in the same light as those who do.

It's pretty clear that the schools have seen some significant underperformance in those who took advantage of TO.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Welfare check on the TESTING IS NEVER COMING BACK! brigade, please.

I mean…Columbia went permanently TO. Cornell announced that it’s extending TO. Michigan is permanently TO. The UC schools are permanently test-blind. Amherst, Pomona, and a number of other top-ranked SLACs are permanently TO. The vast majority of schools outside the ~50 people on here talk about are still TO and don’t seem to be signaling any change.

I think testing is going to come back for a small subset of schools that have huge numbers of applications and want to use tests to cull applicants easily, and at public schools in some red states.

I think the “TO is over” folks are reading the evidence very selectively.

First, nothing is permanent. I agree Cal schools will not come back; Pomona also. Columbia will be test required before long as will Cornell and Michigan. They have to given the moves already.

As to why -- they are of the view that the test score is a better predictor of first year performance. Better than inflated grades.

Well, sure…in which case Yale, Dartmouth, and Brown could eliminate tests again at some point!

The point is, there is no indication that TO is going away broadly. Many schools were TO before the pandemic. Some will shift back to requiring tests in the coming years. Others will stake out some new ground. Many (probably most) will stay test optional. The idea that what Dartmouth, Yale, and Brown have done portends some great pendulum swing back to test-required is not grounded in any evidence.

Here’s the thing—I don’t really care. My TO kid got into a great school this year, and my next kid always planned to submit scores. I think test optional is great because it allows every kid to put their best foot forward. But truly, whatever. I just think the wishcasting among the folks who have decided standardized testing is the One True Indicator is ridiculous and makes people who think they are smart sound really dumb.

You are giving off the impression you have an emotional investment in the virtues of TO. When several of the most elite schools have reversed courses and brought back tests, decisions that would not have been made lightly by these schools, it's pretty clear why.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Welfare check on the TESTING IS NEVER COMING BACK! brigade, please.

I mean…Columbia went permanently TO. Cornell announced that it’s extending TO. Michigan is permanently TO. The UC schools are permanently test-blind. Amherst, Pomona, and a number of other top-ranked SLACs are permanently TO. The vast majority of schools outside the ~50 people on here talk about are still TO and don’t seem to be signaling any change.

I think testing is going to come back for a small subset of schools that have huge numbers of applications and want to use tests to cull applicants easily, and at public schools in some red states.

I think the “TO is over” folks are reading the evidence very selectively.

First, nothing is permanent. I agree Cal schools will not come back; Pomona also. Columbia will be test required before long as will Cornell and Michigan. They have to given the moves already.

As to why -- they are of the view that the test score is a better predictor of first year performance. Better than inflated grades.

Well, sure…in which case Yale, Dartmouth, and Brown could eliminate tests again at some point!

The point is, there is no indication that TO is going away broadly. Many schools were TO before the pandemic. Some will shift back to requiring tests in the coming years. Others will stake out some new ground. Many (probably most) will stay test optional. The idea that what Dartmouth, Yale, and Brown have done portends some great pendulum swing back to test-required is not grounded in any evidence.

Here’s the thing—I don’t really care. My TO kid got into a great school this year, and my next kid always planned to submit scores. I think test optional is great because it allows every kid to put their best foot forward. But truly, whatever. I just think the wishcasting among the folks who have decided standardized testing is the One True Indicator is ridiculous and makes people who think they are smart sound really dumb.

You are giving off the impression you have an emotional investment in the virtues of TO. When several of the most elite schools have reversed courses and brought back tests, decisions that would not have been made lightly by these schools, it's pretty clear why.

Yes, I’m the emotional one.

[Anonymous]

If you think colleges prefer testing even when they are TO, why do you care if other people don't submit scores?

If your kid submits them to one of these schools, your kids comes out on top, right?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:If you think colleges prefer testing even when they are TO, why do you care if other people don't submit scores?

If your kid submits them to one of these schools, your kids comes out on top, right?

+1 Exactly. Submit your score, after all it gives you an advantage right?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:If you think colleges prefer testing even when they are TO, why do you care if other people don't submit scores?

If your kid submits them to one of these schools, your kids comes out on top, right?

I imagine people were worried about double standards.

Yale, Brown and Dartmouth must have seen the data on actual outcomes of TO students once on campus and didn't like it.

[Anonymous]

It is late for the reinstatement of standardized tests for 2025s (current juniors). A number of testing centers are already full, not to mention those that want/need to test prep, that process should have started back in the fall. Their runway is now short.

[Anonymous]

colleges will start making announcements for class of 2026 soon to give current sophomores plenty of time to prep.

Current juniors will be the last class to have real test optional options.