How are selective colleges looking at DE classes?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Dual Enrollment = Class at Community College

If your kid wants to do it then fine. I would not base anything on college admissions which is getting more and more random.

Thankyou. Usually people refer to them as Dual Enrollment classes, not DE

I guess it depends where you are. In our school district (DC suburbs), people write DE.

Anyway, I don't think an online CC class will register on a selective college's radar if there are more rigorous options available (such as AP or IB)

If you're someplace where schools don't offer AP or IB and the nearest CC or DE college is sixty miles away, an online DE class probably offers a little more distinction

[Anonymous]

There is a part of Jeff Selingo's book where he discusses the AOs at selective schools seeing DE as less rigorous as AP.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:There is a part of Jeff Selingo's book where he discusses the AOs at selective schools seeing DE as less rigorous as AP.

Thanks for bringing this up. I need to reread that book.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:There is a part of Jeff Selingo's book where he discusses the AOs at selective schools seeing DE as less rigorous as AP.

My high school only had DE, no AP at offerings (this was 20 years ago but my following point still stands).

DE target audience is community college students, usually a cohort that is barely college bound and few standout students (because even if they had zero money, top students would have options with merit scholarships better than CC). So it’s just a less rigorous curriculum, and if you are actually enrolled with community college students, it’s a less academic cohort.

It worked well at my school because only 30% of our class even went to college and about half of that was going to community college anyways.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There is a part of Jeff Selingo's book where he discusses the AOs at selective schools seeing DE as less rigorous as AP.

Thanks for bringing this up. I need to reread that book.

That makes no sense. Multivariable calculus/Linear Algebra/Intro to Math Reasoning (at GW)/Differential Equations (Howard) are genuine college courses. Why would they be seen as less rigorous? These are all available for Dual Enrollment/Dual Credit at DCPS.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There is a part of Jeff Selingo's book where he discusses the AOs at selective schools seeing DE as less rigorous as AP.

Thanks for bringing this up. I need to reread that book.

That makes no sense. Multivariable calculus/Linear Algebra/Intro to Math Reasoning (at GW)/Differential Equations (Howard) are genuine college courses. Why would they be seen as less rigorous? These are all available for Dual Enrollment/Dual Credit at DCPS.

It makes perfect sense. Of course an AO will respect the particular case you describe, but that doesn’t mean he’s going to respect a kid who takes US History at some random community college because the APUSH teacher in his high school is a harsh grader. Rule of thumb, only use DE for courses your high school doesn’t offer.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There is a part of Jeff Selingo's book where he discusses the AOs at selective schools seeing DE as less rigorous as AP.

Thanks for bringing this up. I need to reread that book.

That makes no sense. Multivariable calculus/Linear Algebra/Intro to Math Reasoning (at GW)/Differential Equations (Howard) are genuine college courses. Why would they be seen as less rigorous? These are all available for Dual Enrollment/Dual Credit at DCPS.

It makes perfect sense. Of course an AO will respect the particular case you describe, but that doesn’t mean he’s going to respect a kid who takes US History at some random community college because the APUSH teacher in his high school is a harsh grader. Rule of thumb, only use DE for courses your high school doesn’t offer.

Yes, this is how DCPS works. You can only take a dual enrollment college class if your HS does not offer it.

Post-BC Caclulus classes seem the most popular.

I would think top colleges would consider an A in Multivariable from Georgetown to be a positive to the application.

[Anonymous]

subject like history doesn't matter

math and science = yes

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:DE is generally regarded as a way to inflate HS grades. They aren’t as hard or rigorous as AP classes/curriculum but they get the bump in GPA. This is because they are still taught by HS teachers (as are the AP courses but the AP courses follow a curriculum and have the accountability and measure of an exam). This is how my kids who took AP courses explained it to me. The “gen Ed” track kids boost their GPAs this way but generally lacked rigor in their transcript.

There are exceptions, I suppose, for novelty classes. But most of the “advanced” courses the selective university will want students to take from them anyway and won’t be impressed by someone taking a substandard offering in HS.

This clearly depends in the school district. All DCPS DE classes are actually taken at a participating college with enrolled college students. Yes, there are some offered by UDC, but most of the kids that I know taking DE are taking those classes at GW or Georgetown.

The kids literally get "accepted" by the college (there is a very brief application one fills out...nothing like the real application), get a student ID and then register for the college class through the college system. This process is no different than enrolled college students use to select their own classes.

Do you mind sharing a little more info about the students taking classes at Georgetown? E.g., what high school they came from (public or private) or what courses? We were told that Georgetown does not allow high school students to take classes (except for summer.) Thanks!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There is a part of Jeff Selingo's book where he discusses the AOs at selective schools seeing DE as less rigorous as AP.

Thanks for bringing this up. I need to reread that book.

That makes no sense. Multivariable calculus/Linear Algebra/Intro to Math Reasoning (at GW)/Differential Equations (Howard) are genuine college courses. Why would they be seen as less rigorous? These are all available for Dual Enrollment/Dual Credit at DCPS.

The point is selective colleges would rather the student take those at their university instead of a substandard option in HS. They aren’t impressed.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Dual Enrollment = Class at Community College

If your kid wants to do it then fine. I would not base anything on college admissions which is getting more and more random.

Thankyou. Usually people refer to them as Dual Enrollment classes, not DE

The are DE on VA high School transcripts, and on the SSAR.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:DE is generally regarded as a way to inflate HS grades. They aren’t as hard or rigorous as AP classes/curriculum but they get the bump in GPA. This is because they are still taught by HS teachers (as are the AP courses but the AP courses follow a curriculum and have the accountability and measure of an exam). This is how my kids who took AP courses explained it to me. The “gen Ed” track kids boost their GPAs this way but generally lacked rigor in their transcript.

There are exceptions, I suppose, for novelty classes. But most of the “advanced” courses the selective university will want students to take from them anyway and won’t be impressed by someone taking a substandard offering in HS.

I find opinions like this obnoxious. First of all, my junior has several AP classes already. DC took DE English Composition this year instead of AP (whatever the language art equivalent is). And it is an excellent class. DC has done more writing in a semester than has been done the entirety of the 10 years in FCPS. Getting good -and timely- feedback. And it will only benefit DC in college so, yes, it is absolutely worth the +1 bump.

I have been way less impressed with DC's AP classes which are rigid, unimaginative, and fairly high level reviews of the subject matters. Not all of the teachers should be teaching AP classes, frankly, whereas the DE teacher teaches at NOVA regularly. And does it well.

I realize there is this AP arms race around here and anyone who doesn't take as many as offered as viewed as an inferior student. But that is wrong. And unfair.

[Anonymous]

The question isn’t what’s “just” and “fair.” It’s how DE works within the notoriously unjust and unfair process of college admissions.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:DE is generally regarded as a way to inflate HS grades. They aren’t as hard or rigorous as AP classes/curriculum but they get the bump in GPA. This is because they are still taught by HS teachers (as are the AP courses but the AP courses follow a curriculum and have the accountability and measure of an exam). This is how my kids who took AP courses explained it to me. The “gen Ed” track kids boost their GPAs this way but generally lacked rigor in their transcript.

There are exceptions, I suppose, for novelty classes. But most of the “advanced” courses the selective university will want students to take from them anyway and won’t be impressed by someone taking a substandard offering in HS.

I find opinions like this obnoxious. First of all, my junior has several AP classes already. DC took DE English Composition this year instead of AP (whatever the language art equivalent is). And it is an excellent class. DC has done more writing in a semester than has been done the entirety of the 10 years in FCPS. Getting good -and timely- feedback. And it will only benefit DC in college so, yes, it is absolutely worth the +1 bump.

I have been way less impressed with DC's AP classes which are rigid, unimaginative, and fairly high level reviews of the subject matters. Not all of the teachers should be teaching AP classes, frankly, whereas the DE teacher teaches at NOVA regularly. And does it well.

I realize there is this AP arms race around here and anyone who doesn't take as many as offered as viewed as an inferior student. But that is wrong. And unfair.

What you think of as an "excellent" class may not impress the college admissions folks--especially a community college level English composition class which often is viewed as remedial instruction. And, yes, consistent writing with feedback is a hallmark of those kinds of classes--it's how colleges get kids up to writing speed if they haven't done that already. The class size and professor schedules are geared to make that work far more than a K-12 settings. But the fact is that the academic cohort is often lower at a community college than in the AP program at a high school and the grades reflect that. If your kid hasn't done AP in language arts, this will be looked at as dodging harder content/competition rather than more advanced content. But it sounds like you've gotten what the actual value of the course is -- more practice writing and more feedback on writing.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:DE is generally regarded as a way to inflate HS grades. They aren’t as hard or rigorous as AP classes/curriculum but they get the bump in GPA. This is because they are still taught by HS teachers (as are the AP courses but the AP courses follow a curriculum and have the accountability and measure of an exam). This is how my kids who took AP courses explained it to me. The “gen Ed” track kids boost their GPAs this way but generally lacked rigor in their transcript.

There are exceptions, I suppose, for novelty classes. But most of the “advanced” courses the selective university will want students to take from them anyway and won’t be impressed by someone taking a substandard offering in HS.

This clearly depends in the school district. All DCPS DE classes are actually taken at a participating college with enrolled college students. Yes, there are some offered by UDC, but most of the kids that I know taking DE are taking those classes at GW or Georgetown.

The kids literally get "accepted" by the college (there is a very brief application one fills out...nothing like the real application), get a student ID and then register for the college class through the college system. This process is no different than enrolled college students use to select their own classes.

Do you mind sharing a little more info about the students taking classes at Georgetown? E.g., what high school they came from (public or private) or what courses? We were told that Georgetown does not allow high school students to take classes (except for summer.) Thanks!

It is a special program for DCPS students (i.e., public). I don't know if any DC private schools have their own relationship with Georgetown, but they cannot participate in the DCPS program.

The overall course availability is limited to what Georgetown is willing to offer the HS students to enroll. I think they offer like 20 classes, with several Post-BC Calc options. You need to have a high GPA, get a counselor recommendation and "apply" to the school...but again, this is a very short 10 minute application and I would be shocked if anyone is ever rejected (since it is generally a fairly small overall pool of students). GW has a more extensive selection of maybe 50 classes.

Again, you enroll in actual Georgetown classes and take the class alongside current Georgetown students. This is not a special class of only HS students.

It's annoying that many highly selective colleges will not give you credit for the class (though I imagine Georgetown would if you matriculate there), even though if you took that exact same class as a Georgetown student and transferred, they would accept the credit.