Long-term sub instead of classroom teacher

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm curious as to how many schools are still seeing long-term subs versus a permanent teacher. Do you have any classes where it's a long-term sub instead of a teacher?

How is a student’s education affected by LT sub vs teacher?

It would be like having a babysitter all the time and comparing how you’re cared for to the kids whose parents are the ones taking care of them. It’s a person in the room most likely handing them premade material to do- at best, they’re attempting to teach it but they aren’t usually licensed teachers so they’re shaky on how to teach or the content itself. In other words, it’s education only in the most technical of technicalities.

-teacher

A parent in another thread said that teachers are just babysitters....wouldn't it be ironic if the same parent was upset their child had an LT sub

Nasty DCUM parents love to say that shit until their kid actually gets an babysitter (long term sub) and then they’re crying and carrying on about their kid needing a real teacher

+1

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm curious as to how many schools are still seeing long-term subs versus a permanent teacher. Do you have any classes where it's a long-term sub instead of a teacher?

How is a student’s education affected by LT sub vs teacher?

It would be like having a babysitter all the time and comparing how you’re cared for to the kids whose parents are the ones taking care of them. It’s a person in the room most likely handing them premade material to do- at best, they’re attempting to teach it but they aren’t usually licensed teachers so they’re shaky on how to teach or the content itself. In other words, it’s education only in the most technical of technicalities.

-teacher

My kids have had several long-term subs who were retired teachers from that school. I have no idea if they were still actively licensed, but they certainly were for quite a while. I was very impressed with the education they were receiving from those subs!

That is great-what we all hope for. Not the norm though.

[Anonymous]

I can tell you that it is just a body. Somw subs are good and do have teaching experience but some literally have no clue are falling asleep at the job and don’t give a sh-t. Teaching is a very tough job so no one wants to do it anymore and there is a sub shortage and teacher shortage for a reason.

[Anonymous]

My dc just lost their English teacher in HS- they found a new non-teacher job. Now they have a different sub everyday with no end in sight. I would be happy with a long term sub at this point. Pretty sure DC is not learning anything right now. Not blaming the school or principal- i get that no one wants to teach- but people should not be complaining about a long term sub given the circumstances in some schools!

[Anonymous]

Teacher here. The best long term subs used to be retired teachers and education students who graduated from teacher prep programs in December. Now both of them are pretty much non-existent. The former is exhausted and the latter is like a unicorn.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm curious as to how many schools are still seeing long-term subs versus a permanent teacher. Do you have any classes where it's a long-term sub instead of a teacher?

How is a student’s education affected by LT sub vs teacher?

My ES child had one two years in a row, she's a year behind in both reading and math.

This is education under false pretense if this LT sub doesn’t have the qualification and experience equivalent to a teacher.

That is a term you made up. Unfortunately, this is fully legal. There’s nothing you can do about it- you can compulsorily force people to be teachers. If a long term sub is all they can, it’s all they can get. There are not applicants for teaching jobs anymore. At my school we lost 9 people in EL and on the first day of school we still had 7 of those openings. It isn’t because the school is picky. Literally nobody applies.

[Anonymous]

can’t force*

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm curious as to how many schools are still seeing long-term subs versus a permanent teacher. Do you have any classes where it's a long-term sub instead of a teacher?

How is a student’s education affected by LT sub vs teacher?

My ES child had one two years in a row, she's a year behind in both reading and math.

This is education under false pretense if this LT sub doesn’t have the qualification and experience equivalent to a teacher.

That is a term you made up. Unfortunately, this is fully legal. There’s nothing you can do about it- you can compulsorily force people to be teachers. If a long term sub is all they can, it’s all they can get. There are not applicants for teaching jobs anymore. At my school we lost 9 people in EL and on the first day of school we still had 7 of those openings. It isn’t because the school is picky. Literally nobody applies.

Is child neglect by “educators” a better phrase?

If these unqualified LT subs are mostly in the classrooms of EL or SPED or Non-White students, it is unlawful discrimination. https://www.justice.gov/crt/types-educational-opportunities-discrimination

If FCPS doesn’t already have fed complaints about this, they will once parents realize their children aren’t learning like the students with qualified teachers.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm curious as to how many schools are still seeing long-term subs versus a permanent teacher. Do you have any classes where it's a long-term sub instead of a teacher?

How is a student’s education affected by LT sub vs teacher?

My ES child had one two years in a row, she's a year behind in both reading and math.

This is education under false pretense if this LT sub doesn’t have the qualification and experience equivalent to a teacher.

That is a term you made up. Unfortunately, this is fully legal. There’s nothing you can do about it- you can compulsorily force people to be teachers. If a long term sub is all they can, it’s all they can get. There are not applicants for teaching jobs anymore. At my school we lost 9 people in EL and on the first day of school we still had 7 of those openings. It isn’t because the school is picky. Literally nobody applies.

Is child neglect by “educators” a better phrase?

If these unqualified LT subs are mostly in the classrooms of EL or SPED or Non-White students, it is unlawful discrimination. https://www.justice.gov/crt/types-educational-opportunities-discrimination

If FCPS doesn’t already have fed complaints about this, they will once parents realize their children aren’t learning like the students with qualified teachers.

It’s in all kinds of classes. There are not enough subs out there.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm curious as to how many schools are still seeing long-term subs versus a permanent teacher. Do you have any classes where it's a long-term sub instead of a teacher?

How is a student’s education affected by LT sub vs teacher?

My ES child had one two years in a row, she's a year behind in both reading and math.

This is education under false pretense if this LT sub doesn’t have the qualification and experience equivalent to a teacher.

That is a term you made up. Unfortunately, this is fully legal. There’s nothing you can do about it- you can compulsorily force people to be teachers. If a long term sub is all they can, it’s all they can get. There are not applicants for teaching jobs anymore. At my school we lost 9 people in EL and on the first day of school we still had 7 of those openings. It isn’t because the school is picky. Literally nobody applies.

Is child neglect by “educators” a better phrase?

If these unqualified LT subs are mostly in the classrooms of EL or SPED or Non-White students, it is unlawful discrimination. https://www.justice.gov/crt/types-educational-opportunities-discrimination

If FCPS doesn’t already have fed complaints about this, they will once parents realize their children aren’t learning like the students with qualified teachers.

You are still just crafting a made up narrative. Now, for no reason, you believe subs are only in self contained rooms and majority non-white classes? That’s ludicrous and inaccurate - the teacher can be out long term in any class for a variety of reasons. If there isn’t a licensed teacher willing or available to fill that role OR it’s for a finite duration and not a year long contract, the district has fulfilled its obligation by putting a long term sub in there. We can agree it’s likely not as quality of an education as an actual teacher, but also some actual teachers aren’t great, and you don’t necessarily get high quality education out of every class. That doesn’t mean there is educational malpractice or whatever term you created .

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm curious as to how many schools are still seeing long-term subs versus a permanent teacher. Do you have any classes where it's a long-term sub instead of a teacher?

How is a student’s education affected by LT sub vs teacher?

My ES child had one two years in a row, she's a year behind in both reading and math.

This is education under false pretense if this LT sub doesn’t have the qualification and experience equivalent to a teacher.

That is a term you made up. Unfortunately, this is fully legal. There’s nothing you can do about it- you can compulsorily force people to be teachers. If a long term sub is all they can, it’s all they can get. There are not applicants for teaching jobs anymore. At my school we lost 9 people in EL and on the first day of school we still had 7 of those openings. It isn’t because the school is picky. Literally nobody applies.

The bold all day. We have mulitple LTSs at our school and it's not going to change. There are no candidates to hire.

[Anonymous]

FCPS could change some things to open up the hiring gap. A big one is to change the pay scale for teachers with more than 12 years experience. The drops after that (it say 15 years, but the drop it to 12 because of missed-step years) means teachers with more experience tend to go counties such as APS, who will pay them at their experience level. I considered transferring to FCPS a few years ago to shorten my commute. There were about 50 openings in the area for which I would have applied, but Human Resources wouldn’t budge on that pay scale policy. I would have had a 20k salary decrease. APS had been willing to negotiate even above scale to get highly qualified teachers in high needs positions.

[Anonymous]

They need to pay a salary that will allow a new teacher to rent an apartment, pay their bills, have a bit of a life, and pay down student loans. I have nieces and nephews who are contracted subs to a specific school in another State because they cannot find a teaching position (they are a specials teacher). They are staying where they are because of student debt and they can live with Mom and Dad. But they have friends teaching ES, MS, and HS that are only looking in their parents home area because it is too expensive to move out with the cost of living and student loans.

There are new Teachers out there but they can’t afford to live here. Or, they can afford to live if if they are willing to have no extra money to have a life outside of work.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:FCPS could change some things to open up the hiring gap. A big one is to change the pay scale for teachers with more than 12 years experience. The drops after that (it say 15 years, but the drop it to 12 because of missed-step years) means teachers with more experience tend to go counties such as APS, who will pay them at their experience level. I considered transferring to FCPS a few years ago to shorten my commute. There were about 50 openings in the area for which I would have applied, but Human Resources wouldn’t budge on that pay scale policy. I would have had a 20k salary decrease. APS had been willing to negotiate even above scale to get highly qualified teachers in high needs positions.

FCPS dropped their maximum entry step. So for example, if you come to FCPS with 20 years they place you on step 18, 23 years step 21, etc.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm curious as to how many schools are still seeing long-term subs versus a permanent teacher. Do you have any classes where it's a long-term sub instead of a teacher?

How is a student’s education affected by LT sub vs teacher?

My ES child had one two years in a row, she's a year behind in both reading and math.

This is education under false pretense if this LT sub doesn’t have the qualification and experience equivalent to a teacher.

That is a term you made up. Unfortunately, this is fully legal. There’s nothing you can do about it- you can compulsorily force people to be teachers. If a long term sub is all they can, it’s all they can get. There are not applicants for teaching jobs anymore. At my school we lost 9 people in EL and on the first day of school we still had 7 of those openings. It isn’t because the school is picky. Literally nobody applies.

Is child neglect by “educators” a better phrase?

If these unqualified LT subs are mostly in the classrooms of EL or SPED or Non-White students, it is unlawful discrimination. https://www.justice.gov/crt/types-educational-opportunities-discrimination

If FCPS doesn’t already have fed complaints about this, they will once parents realize their children aren’t learning like the students with qualified teachers.

You are still just crafting a made up narrative. Now, for no reason, you believe subs are only in self contained rooms and majority non-white classes? That’s ludicrous and inaccurate - the teacher can be out long term in any class for a variety of reasons. If there isn’t a licensed teacher willing or available to fill that role OR it’s for a finite duration and not a year long contract, the district has fulfilled its obligation by putting a long term sub in there. We can agree it’s likely not as quality of an education as an actual teacher, but also some actual teachers aren’t great, and you don’t necessarily get high quality education out of every class. That doesn’t mean there is educational malpractice or whatever term you created .

FCPS meets their obligation to educate a student when they regularly place qualified Educators in their classroom or they pay to educate the student elsewhere.

Fed OCR investigation found that FCPS violated federal law for remote learning students and have paid out $5.5 million so far to correct their educational malpractice and child neglect. https://wjla.com/renderer/wjla/amp/news/crisis-in-the-classrooms/fairfax-county-public-schools-fcps-special-education-students-services-missed-during-pandemic-superintendent-dr-michelle-reid-compensatory-process

When FCPS publishes all their data on the class of students that experience an unqualified sub vs qualified teacher every day, then we can debate more. Meanwhile, we can use your school with the 7 missing EL teachers as an example of the discrimination taking place.