Parent refused home aide

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You just still have the aide show up, they are used to this. You don't give in.

They are legally prevented from providing the services unless my mother consents.

Hmm. They should have lots of tricks to elicit a grudging non-refusal of services. Otherwise, just get someone who is willing to come in. How do you think other families deal with this? Managing a dementia patient involves lots of lies, OP.

That’s not how it works there, unfortunately. Services are by the book and on the books. I can’t just hire a random person who isn’t even qualified, to show up. Also she’s have to pay for it, did I mention she has a generous pension? She’s in the top 5-10% of income there, just with the pension for herself. This isn’t a country without a safety net where kids have to fund the bills for their underinsured parents.

Which country? I’ve lived in Germany, France and the UK, and I’m having a hard time believing you.

Also, can you place her in an appropriate care home?

You lost all credibility when you “place her in a care home.” Nothing is possible against her will. You can’t just put someone in a home unless you have a doctor and a judge decide on that (either through involuntarily committing or by having a judge declare her incompetent). This is not how it works there.

[Anonymous]

OP this is so normal. It’s going to take a while to make the change. Don’t give up.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP this is so normal. It’s going to take a while to make the change. Don’t give up.

Also we don’t know the country but there is almost certainly an administrative process for declaring someone incompetent.

If that process says she can decline, you just have to accept it and wait until she falls or burns the house down.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP this is so normal. It’s going to take a while to make the change. Don’t give up.

Also we don’t know the country but there is almost certainly an administrative process for declaring someone incompetent.

If that process says she can decline, you just have to accept it and wait until she falls or burns the house down.

As I said above, it’s a medical/judicial process, and she’s not there yet. It’s not a nice thing to do to your parents, coincidentally I clerked at a court that did some of this many decades ago. It would be much better for her to keep her dignity and accept the 1 hr per day at a low cost.

[Anonymous]

OP do you imagine that all the other dementia patients in this magical country agreed to aides as soon as they needed them? Dementia is the same everywhere. So the people there have experience and will know the right next steps. It might be that you have to back off and let her struggle a bit. But there are also medical assessments for cognitive decline, like drawing the face of a clock and things like that which are harder to mask. I’m sure the agency can advise you on how to qualify your mother for services without her consent.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You just still have the aide show up, they are used to this. You don't give in.

They are legally prevented from providing the services unless my mother consents.

I didn’t say to do “services” I said show up.

Odd you don’t have power of medical.

She can make food, and other tasks.

[Anonymous]

I had a breakdown in front of my parents when they refused. It seemed to wake them up and they agreed to have limited help after.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP do you imagine that all the other dementia patients in this magical country agreed to aides as soon as they needed them? Dementia is the same everywhere. So the people there have experience and will know the right next steps. It might be that you have to back off and let her struggle a bit. But there are also medical assessments for cognitive decline, like drawing the face of a clock and things like that which are harder to mask. I’m sure the agency can advise you on how to qualify your mother for services without her consent.

I don’t think mocking the country as “magical” is being helpful here. The agency specifically says (and I know this to be true) that you can’t force services on someone who doesn’t consent unless they’re declared incompetent. They can be forced into a home only if they’re a threat to self or others. I told you that before and your limited knowledge about Germany, France and the UK is equally unhelpful. I am dealing with an obstinate parent here and without her consent there is nothing they’re going to do for her. Once she deteriorates, which will eventually happen, they’ll reassess. It’s just sad because she needs help now and can afford it. Also - these are good people who work there who want to help.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP do you imagine that all the other dementia patients in this magical country agreed to aides as soon as they needed them? Dementia is the same everywhere. So the people there have experience and will know the right next steps. It might be that you have to back off and let her struggle a bit. But there are also medical assessments for cognitive decline, like drawing the face of a clock and things like that which are harder to mask. I’m sure the agency can advise you on how to qualify your mother for services without her consent.

I don’t think mocking the country as “magical” is being helpful here. The agency specifically says (and I know this to be true) that you can’t force services on someone who doesn’t consent unless they’re declared incompetent. They can be forced into a home only if they’re a threat to self or others. I told you that before and your limited knowledge about Germany, France and the UK is equally unhelpful. I am dealing with an obstinate parent here and without her consent there is nothing they’re going to do for her. Once she deteriorates, which will eventually happen, they’ll reassess. It’s just sad because she needs help now and can afford it. Also - these are good people who work there who want to help.

Pp are trying to tell you that you u just have to wait for it get yet terrible - like being admitted to a hospital for starvation bc she hasn’t eaten in 3 days. That’s the problem with the patient centered model in these cases - no one can prevent the huge problem they see coming; they just wait for it to happen.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP do you imagine that all the other dementia patients in this magical country agreed to aides as soon as they needed them? Dementia is the same everywhere. So the people there have experience and will know the right next steps. It might be that you have to back off and let her struggle a bit. But there are also medical assessments for cognitive decline, like drawing the face of a clock and things like that which are harder to mask. I’m sure the agency can advise you on how to qualify your mother for services without her consent.

I don’t think mocking the country as “magical” is being helpful here. The agency specifically says (and I know this to be true) that you can’t force services on someone who doesn’t consent unless they’re declared incompetent. They can be forced into a home only if they’re a threat to self or others. I told you that before and your limited knowledge about Germany, France and the UK is equally unhelpful. I am dealing with an obstinate parent here and without her consent there is nothing they’re going to do for her. Once she deteriorates, which will eventually happen, they’ll reassess. It’s just sad because she needs help now and can afford it. Also - these are good people who work there who want to help.

Pp are trying to tell you that you u just have to wait for it get yet terrible - like being admitted to a hospital for starvation bc she hasn’t eaten in 3 days. That’s the problem with the patient centered model in these cases - no one can prevent the huge problem they see coming; they just wait for it to happen.

I know that, unfortunately that’s how it is. It’s just the previous poster who insists on knowing how everything works in Europe because she lived in 3 countries there. It’s infuriating when people who have no clue insist they have all the wisdom. Maybe an NPD thing, IDK.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP do you imagine that all the other dementia patients in this magical country agreed to aides as soon as they needed them? Dementia is the same everywhere. So the people there have experience and will know the right next steps. It might be that you have to back off and let her struggle a bit. But there are also medical assessments for cognitive decline, like drawing the face of a clock and things like that which are harder to mask. I’m sure the agency can advise you on how to qualify your mother for services without her consent.

I don’t think mocking the country as “magical” is being helpful here. The agency specifically says (and I know this to be true) that you can’t force services on someone who doesn’t consent unless they’re declared incompetent. They can be forced into a home only if they’re a threat to self or others. I told you that before and your limited knowledge about Germany, France and the UK is equally unhelpful. I am dealing with an obstinate parent here and without her consent there is nothing they’re going to do for her. Once she deteriorates, which will eventually happen, they’ll reassess. It’s just sad because she needs help now and can afford it. Also - these are good people who work there who want to help.

Pp are trying to tell you that you u just have to wait for it get yet terrible - like being admitted to a hospital for starvation bc she hasn’t eaten in 3 days. That’s the problem with the patient centered model in these cases - no one can prevent the huge problem they see coming; they just wait for it to happen.

I know that, unfortunately that’s how it is. It’s just the previous poster who insists on knowing how everything works in Europe because she lived in 3 countries there. It’s infuriating when people who have no clue insist they have all the wisdom. Maybe an NPD thing, IDK.

I'm the European you so roundly maligned, and I did not write these other posts you are referring to.

OP, you're tired and anxious but it doesn't mean you need to be combative and push back against every single suggestion. You could have started your thread by specifying this was in X country, with X regulations. It would have helped bring some context to your problem.

Also, you repeat you must do everything by the book, but surely you realize that dealing with dementia requires "Creativity" from adult children and caregivers. You seem to have two options:

1. Lie to your parent to get their consent to a visit by nice people who are only here temporarily to fix something. Oh, and they're also coming tomorrow to fix something else. Entirely by the way, they made you a yummy meal. You don't like it? They feel really bad, and want to come tomorrow to make you something you'll like better. They might pick up the place and run a load of laundry, to help you out a little. Blah blah blah, adapt to the situation at hand.

2. Or maybe she's not *that* impaired, and if that's the case, you'll just have to wait she is: until she falls, needs hospitalization, really loses it, gets declared incompetent, or finally agrees to visits.

It's no use simultaneously raging at us but also claiming she needs help now but none can be had: you're putting yourself into a corner all by your little own self and the one who suffers most... is you.

[Anonymous]

I wasn’t even the same poster, and seem like a pill.

[Anonymous]

OP, you ATA. I thought I'd seen rude before on dcum but you take the cake. No one wants to help someone acting like you.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This is so frustrating. My sister did so much work (forms, phone calls, documents) so that my mom who had dementia would have an aide coming to the house every morning. They came this morning for the assessment, my mom acted very normal and refused the help. My mom clearly needs it, she can’t manage her own eating/self care/ etc. she is confused and forgets every little thing, has difficulty walking etc. There’s nothing we can do once my mother refuses. My sister will have a break down when she hears.

So sorry OP. I reread this post and see you didn’t ask a question! You are just venting.

Yes, it’s hard.

I’m in a similar situation right now but with my husband. I have to find the care and then he rejects it, or complains bitterly about it.

I have started providing much less care when he fires his caregivers in a fit of pique.

[Anonymous]

Tell her a “therapeutic lie” to make the idea of an aide coming in more palatable. Can you tell her that the aide needs her because she’s in training? She needs to work with someone who is healthy and capable (because having an aide is a sign she’s getting older and no one wants to feel that way) as a part of her training before she can work with someone who really needs her.

Does your country have something like Adult Protective Services?