Lancaster puppies...

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Please do not support these people. The puppy mills have horrible conditions, and in addition they treat the women in their community terribly! Abuse is rampant.

Please read up on the child sex abuse and treatment of women in addition to the puppy mills before you support them. Their treatment of women is like The Handmaid's Tale.

https://www.aetv.com/real-crime/child-sexual-abuse-amish
https://www.npr.org/2020/01/19/797804404/investigation-into-child-sex-abuse-in-amish-communities
https://www.amishbaskets.com/blogs/blog/amish-rules-for-women#rules-amish-women-must-follow

https://www.stoponlinepuppymills.org/amish-puppy-mills/
https://www.mlar.org/puppy-mill-page

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Please do not support these people. The puppy mills have horrible conditions, and in addition they treat the women in their community terribly! Abuse is rampant.

Please read up on the child sex abuse and treatment of women in addition to the puppy mills before you support them. Their treatment of women is like The Handmaid's Tale.

https://www.aetv.com/real-crime/child-sexual-abuse-amish
https://www.npr.org/2020/01/19/797804404/investigation-into-child-sex-abuse-in-amish-communities
https://www.amishbaskets.com/blogs/blog/amish-rules-for-women#rules-amish-women-must-follow

https://www.stoponlinepuppymills.org/amish-puppy-mills/
https://www.mlar.org/puppy-mill-page

Careful, I’ve had my posts about systemic Amish sexual abuse removed from the travel boards. But I agree with you. No one should be buying their puppies or paying to tour their farms.

[Anonymous]

You are buying a puppy, not adopting one. I really hate that cutesy disingenuous statement from buyers & breeders.

[Anonymous]

Our last dog came from a pet store that got their puppies from the Amish. He was a cocker spaniel cavalier mix. We loved him dearly, but he had some mental issues and also developed a heart murmur at 8 years old. We had to put him down when he was 10.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m going to re-post my own comment from a different thread because I had Amish breeders in mind, specifically, when I wrote it:

I think people have the wrong image in their head when they hear “puppy mill.” They’re thinking of the worst of the worst: dogs confined to dirty crates all day long, unsocialized, strictly viewed as a commodity, possibly even malnourished or mistreated. There are plenty of puppy mills that treat their dogs kindly, keep them clean and fed, and even socialize them. They’re not animal abusers, but they are not following breeding best practices. They’re breeding whatever dogs they have — not dogs that exemplify the breed standard. They’re not doing health testing or they’re doing the bare minimum and counting on customers not to know the right questions to ask. They’re breeding dogs who are too closely related* and using the same few males to produce all their litters. They’re breeding females younger than they should be bred. They’re having females produce litters too close together for their bodies to recover fully and breeding them more times than is good for their health. Their puppies are clean and look adorable and the adult dogs really are their pets, so people think they’re good breeders, but they’re the ones producing the dogs who are most prone to cancer or heart problems or hip dysplasia. Sometimes you can get a perfectly lovely, healthy dog from them, but it’s purely by chance and not because of their expertise.

I will add that the Amish love their animals and generally don’t mistreat them, but make no mistake, they have a constant supply of puppies because it’s a form of income. I have visited a pet store in an Amish community in Ohio that has such a pipeline of puppies that every day of the year that they’re open, visitors can go cuddle a sample puppy from each of more than a dozen different breeds/mixes. Think about the kind of breeding required (in a closed community, no less!) to maintain a supply chain like this.

Two questions: what's with the asterisk? What's the problem with using the same few males to produce, assuming that the puppy contracts all say No breeding without our permission?

OP, I think this post summarizes Lancaster puppies and backyard breeders very well. They love their dogs, take good care of them, but are not responsible breeders and could be selling you a genetically sick puppy.

The asterisk was just a mistake. There are two problems with using the same male to father many litters; as a previous poster noted, you end up with lots of dogs related to each other and the male ends up breeding with some of his own offspring or their pups, but also, if you haven’t done adequate health testing on the sire and he has a genetic issue, he’s passing it on to many litters. Some of these breeders have one male poodle who sires every single one of their “doodle” litters.

I adopted a retired racing greyhound. Both of his grandsires were extremely successful racers and, as a result, they each sired over 4,000 offspring. One of these grandsires had Progressive Retinal Atrophy. A number of the male offspring who were whelped by the female offspring of this dog have inherited PRA, and my dog is one of them. He was completely blind by age 5 1/2 as a result. It’s tragic that one dog could pass on PRA to so many other dogs. Obviously, this is a different situation entirely from Amish breeders, but racing greyhounds are bred very selectively and every dog has an index score that indicates how many generations back his parents had a common ancestor. I can look up my dog’s pedigree going back 30 generations. Will an Amish breeder share their litters’ pedigrees going back even 3-4 generations?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Our rescue sometimes gets the worn out breeder dogs from these Amish puppy mills. The farmer says he’s going to shoot the dogs on a certain day of the week and they need to be picked up before that .

This is my big issue with these breeder. We used a small newer breeder who breed her pets who clearly lived with her in her home who she adored. Our dogs mom was her pride and joy. And, how much attention can these brewers give if they have 3-4 litters at a time. We wanted a specific allergy free dog and could not find one at a rescue. I also wanted a puppy as I’m scared of big dogs.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m going to re-post my own comment from a different thread because I had Amish breeders in mind, specifically, when I wrote it:

I think people have the wrong image in their head when they hear “puppy mill.” They’re thinking of the worst of the worst: dogs confined to dirty crates all day long, unsocialized, strictly viewed as a commodity, possibly even malnourished or mistreated. There are plenty of puppy mills that treat their dogs kindly, keep them clean and fed, and even socialize them. They’re not animal abusers, but they are not following breeding best practices. They’re breeding whatever dogs they have — not dogs that exemplify the breed standard. They’re not doing health testing or they’re doing the bare minimum and counting on customers not to know the right questions to ask. They’re breeding dogs who are too closely related* and using the same few males to produce all their litters. They’re breeding females younger than they should be bred. They’re having females produce litters too close together for their bodies to recover fully and breeding them more times than is good for their health. Their puppies are clean and look adorable and the adult dogs really are their pets, so people think they’re good breeders, but they’re the ones producing the dogs who are most prone to cancer or heart problems or hip dysplasia. Sometimes you can get a perfectly lovely, healthy dog from them, but it’s purely by chance and not because of their expertise.

I will add that the Amish love their animals and generally don’t mistreat them, but make no mistake, they have a constant supply of puppies because it’s a form of income. I have visited a pet store in an Amish community in Ohio that has such a pipeline of puppies that every day of the year that they’re open, visitors can go cuddle a sample puppy from each of more than a dozen different breeds/mixes. Think about the kind of breeding required (in a closed community, no less!) to maintain a supply chain like this.

Two questions: what's with the asterisk? What's the problem with using the same few males to produce, assuming that the puppy contracts all say No breeding without our permission?

OP, I think this post summarizes Lancaster puppies and backyard breeders very well. They love their dogs, take good care of them, but are not responsible breeders and could be selling you a genetically sick puppy.

The asterisk was just a mistake. There are two problems with using the same male to father many litters; as a previous poster noted, you end up with lots of dogs related to each other and the male ends up breeding with some of his own offspring or their pups, but also, if you haven’t done adequate health testing on the sire and he has a genetic issue, he’s passing it on to many litters. Some of these breeders have one male poodle who sires every single one of their “doodle” litters.

I adopted a retired racing greyhound. Both of his grandsires were extremely successful racers and, as a result, they each sired over 4,000 offspring. One of these grandsires had Progressive Retinal Atrophy. A number of the male offspring who were whelped by the female offspring of this dog have inherited PRA, and my dog is one of them. He was completely blind by age 5 1/2 as a result. It’s tragic that one dog could pass on PRA to so many other dogs. Obviously, this is a different situation entirely from Amish breeders, but racing greyhounds are bred very selectively and every dog has an index score that indicates how many generations back his parents had a common ancestor. I can look up my dog’s pedigree going back 30 generations. Will an Amish breeder share their litters’ pedigrees going back even 3-4 generations?

You want to use a breeder who offers the akc certification. Ours gave us the paperwork and let us decide to register or not.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Our rescue sometimes gets the worn out breeder dogs from these Amish puppy mills. The farmer says he’s going to shoot the dogs on a certain day of the week and they need to be picked up before that .

a friend of mine got a labradoodle like this. The dog hadn’t sold so they breeder called the rescue and said come get it now or I’m letting it loose to fend for itself.
They may give you the impression they are taking care of the parents, I mean do you really think they’re going to show you the filthy wire cages the breeding females are kept in? Of course not. PA and MO are 2 of the worst states for mass breeding/puppy mills.

[Anonymous]

I don’t understand why genetic issues, akc papers, and lineage of the dog is more important to some of you than the welfare of the parents of the cute puppy you are purchasing?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m going to re-post my own comment from a different thread because I had Amish breeders in mind, specifically, when I wrote it:

I think people have the wrong image in their head when they hear “puppy mill.” They’re thinking of the worst of the worst: dogs confined to dirty crates all day long, unsocialized, strictly viewed as a commodity, possibly even malnourished or mistreated. There are plenty of puppy mills that treat their dogs kindly, keep them clean and fed, and even socialize them. They’re not animal abusers, but they are not following breeding best practices. They’re breeding whatever dogs they have — not dogs that exemplify the breed standard. They’re not doing health testing or they’re doing the bare minimum and counting on customers not to know the right questions to ask. They’re breeding dogs who are too closely related* and using the same few males to produce all their litters. They’re breeding females younger than they should be bred. They’re having females produce litters too close together for their bodies to recover fully and breeding them more times than is good for their health. Their puppies are clean and look adorable and the adult dogs really are their pets, so people think they’re good breeders, but they’re the ones producing the dogs who are most prone to cancer or heart problems or hip dysplasia. Sometimes you can get a perfectly lovely, healthy dog from them, but it’s purely by chance and not because of their expertise.

I will add that the Amish love their animals and generally don’t mistreat them, but make no mistake, they have a constant supply of puppies because it’s a form of income. I have visited a pet store in an Amish community in Ohio that has such a pipeline of puppies that every day of the year that they’re open, visitors can go cuddle a sample puppy from each of more than a dozen different breeds/mixes. Think about the kind of breeding required (in a closed community, no less!) to maintain a supply chain like this.

Two questions: what's with the asterisk? What's the problem with using the same few males to produce, assuming that the puppy contracts all say No breeding without our permission?

OP, I think this post summarizes Lancaster puppies and backyard breeders very well. They love their dogs, take good care of them, but are not responsible breeders and could be selling you a genetically sick puppy.

The asterisk was just a mistake. There are two problems with using the same male to father many litters; as a previous poster noted, you end up with lots of dogs related to each other and the male ends up breeding with some of his own offspring or their pups, but also, if you haven’t done adequate health testing on the sire and he has a genetic issue, he’s passing it on to many litters. Some of these breeders have one male poodle who sires every single one of their “doodle” litters.

I adopted a retired racing greyhound. Both of his grandsires were extremely successful racers and, as a result, they each sired over 4,000 offspring. One of these grandsires had Progressive Retinal Atrophy. A number of the male offspring who were whelped by the female offspring of this dog have inherited PRA, and my dog is one of them. He was completely blind by age 5 1/2 as a result. It’s tragic that one dog could pass on PRA to so many other dogs. Obviously, this is a different situation entirely from Amish breeders, but racing greyhounds are bred very selectively and every dog has an index score that indicates how many generations back his parents had a common ancestor. I can look up my dog’s pedigree going back 30 generations. Will an Amish breeder share their litters’ pedigrees going back even 3-4 generations?

You want to use a breeder who offers the akc certification. Ours gave us the paperwork and let us decide to register or not.

The AKC certification doesn't mean anything health-wise.

[Anonymous]

Look, just do the best you can. We bought from a goat farmer in Lancaster that was breeding their family dog with a friends. She only bred two litters and the dogs were raised in her front room. I liked that she had a different public facing business that made her seem legitimate and part of the community. Our dog is 2 and a dream and I don’t regret going this route at all.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Look, just do the best you can. We bought from a goat farmer in Lancaster that was breeding their family dog with a friends. She only bred two litters and the dogs were raised in her front room. I liked that she had a different public facing business that made her seem legitimate and part of the community. Our dog is 2 and a dream and I don’t regret going this route at all.

You got sold a good story in addition to being sold a dog who was produced out of extreme cruelty.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m going to re-post my own comment from a different thread because I had Amish breeders in mind, specifically, when I wrote it:

I think people have the wrong image in their head when they hear “puppy mill.” They’re thinking of the worst of the worst: dogs confined to dirty crates all day long, unsocialized, strictly viewed as a commodity, possibly even malnourished or mistreated. There are plenty of puppy mills that treat their dogs kindly, keep them clean and fed, and even socialize them. They’re not animal abusers, but they are not following breeding best practices. They’re breeding whatever dogs they have — not dogs that exemplify the breed standard. They’re not doing health testing or they’re doing the bare minimum and counting on customers not to know the right questions to ask. They’re breeding dogs who are too closely related* and using the same few males to produce all their litters. They’re breeding females younger than they should be bred. They’re having females produce litters too close together for their bodies to recover fully and breeding them more times than is good for their health. Their puppies are clean and look adorable and the adult dogs really are their pets, so people think they’re good breeders, but they’re the ones producing the dogs who are most prone to cancer or heart problems or hip dysplasia. Sometimes you can get a perfectly lovely, healthy dog from them, but it’s purely by chance and not because of their expertise.

I will add that the Amish love their animals and generally don’t mistreat them, but make no mistake, they have a constant supply of puppies because it’s a form of income. I have visited a pet store in an Amish community in Ohio that has such a pipeline of puppies that every day of the year that they’re open, visitors can go cuddle a sample puppy from each of more than a dozen different breeds/mixes. Think about the kind of breeding required (in a closed community, no less!) to maintain a supply chain like this.

Two questions: what's with the asterisk? What's the problem with using the same few males to produce, assuming that the puppy contracts all say No breeding without our permission?

OP, I think this post summarizes Lancaster puppies and backyard breeders very well. They love their dogs, take good care of them, but are not responsible breeders and could be selling you a genetically sick puppy.

The asterisk was just a mistake. There are two problems with using the same male to father many litters; as a previous poster noted, you end up with lots of dogs related to each other and the male ends up breeding with some of his own offspring or their pups, but also, if you haven’t done adequate health testing on the sire and he has a genetic issue, he’s passing it on to many litters. Some of these breeders have one male poodle who sires every single one of their “doodle” litters.

I adopted a retired racing greyhound. Both of his grandsires were extremely successful racers and, as a result, they each sired over 4,000 offspring. One of these grandsires had Progressive Retinal Atrophy. A number of the male offspring who were whelped by the female offspring of this dog have inherited PRA, and my dog is one of them. He was completely blind by age 5 1/2 as a result. It’s tragic that one dog could pass on PRA to so many other dogs. Obviously, this is a different situation entirely from Amish breeders, but racing greyhounds are bred very selectively and every dog has an index score that indicates how many generations back his parents had a common ancestor. I can look up my dog’s pedigree going back 30 generations. Will an Amish breeder share their litters’ pedigrees going back even 3-4 generations?

You want to use a breeder who offers the akc certification. Ours gave us the paperwork and let us decide to register or not.

The AKC certification doesn't mean anything health-wise.

Dogs have to have testing to be certified and other stuff.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Look, just do the best you can. We bought from a goat farmer in Lancaster that was breeding their family dog with a friends. She only bred two litters and the dogs were raised in her front room. I liked that she had a different public facing business that made her seem legitimate and part of the community. Our dog is 2 and a dream and I don’t regret going this route at all.

You got sold a good story in addition to being sold a dog who was produced out of extreme cruelty.

DP. You don’t know that. It’s so easy to paint an entire region’s dog breeders with the same brush instead of recognizing that one may not be like the other.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I don’t understand why genetic issues, akc papers, and lineage of the dog is more important to some of you than the welfare of the parents of the cute puppy you are purchasing?

I was concerned and had lengthy talks with breeders. Any dogs who lived in another house or family were ruled out. Only looked at ones who only did a few litters per year and could show proof of dogs living in the house. I figured if she did not take good care of the parents, she would not mine.