Is it age appropriate to be punching/hitting at age 5? Unprovoked and no real reason?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:if you are a parent trying to convince the director to kick the child out, the director is likely just trying to deflect your meddling. Generally arguments over whether behavior is “normal” or not have agendas behind them. My guess is that the director would say “it’s not uncommon behavior and you just need to live with it.”

It’s not” meddling” to make sure your own child is not pushed or shoved at preschool.

[Anonymous]

I am the mother of a child who hit kids every single day in kindergarten. The behavior absolutely mortified me. I was so ashamed and saddened by my son's behavior. We were not an aggressive household and we did everything we could think of to change the behavior: working with a psychologist, working with the school. Of course, the parents of the other kids didn't know this. They only knew that my son was "violent."

Anyway, the behavior completely stopped in first grade. My son has an anxiety disorder and when he was small it came out as aggression. He eventually learned to verbally express when he was feeling anxious and the aggression disappeared.

He is now 14 in 9th grade and he is the most gentle kid around. He still has anxiety which manifests itself differently (shyness, social anxiety, etc).

The point of my post is that the adults may be trying very hard to manage the behavior. No parent enjoys being the parent of "that kid."

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I am the mother of a child who hit kids every single day in kindergarten. The behavior absolutely mortified me. I was so ashamed and saddened by my son's behavior. We were not an aggressive household and we did everything we could think of to change the behavior: working with a psychologist, working with the school. Of course, the parents of the other kids didn't know this. They only knew that my son was "violent."

Anyway, the behavior completely stopped in first grade. My son has an anxiety disorder and when he was small it came out as aggression. He eventually learned to verbally express when he was feeling anxious and the aggression disappeared.

He is now 14 in 9th grade and he is the most gentle kid around. He still has anxiety which manifests itself differently (shyness, social anxiety, etc).

The point of my post is that the adults may be trying very hard to manage the behavior. No parent enjoys being the parent of "that kid."

Why did you put quotes around “violent”? Your child was violent. Period. He’s apparently not now, but he was then.

Stuff like putting quotes around violent (which I’m sure came across in the way you spoke about him too, not just the way you’re writing about him) is the exact problem that people have with you. You’re in denial and acting like the violence isn’t that bad or isn’t really violence and so shouldn’t be called that. Acknowledging the problem would have made other parents less frustrated with you.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:if you are a parent trying to convince the director to kick the child out, the director is likely just trying to deflect your meddling. Generally arguments over whether behavior is “normal” or not have agendas behind them. My guess is that the director would say “it’s not uncommon behavior and you just need to live with it.”

It’s not” meddling” to make sure your own child is not pushed or shoved at preschool.

It is meddling to try to insist that they agree that a child is "not normal" and to try to control how the director does their job. It's appropriate to want to talk to the school about it, but to try to control the outcome is meddling.

[Anonymous]

Former preschool teacher here. The few kids I taught who were that physical had other disabilities. That said, the first few times includes a big talk with a teacher about emotions, how to handle them when frustrated, options, etc. If it became too much for me or my co teacher to handle, then we would send to director, but we really tried to handle it in the classroom. But my classroom was focused more on social skills and less on academics. If you're at a school that cares more if all the kids know their letter and letter sounds before heading to preschool than if they can be an empathetic, helpful kid--then I would suggest you find a different preschool.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Also very relevant: one time incident or ongoing issue? If it happened one time, I'd say "age appropriate" because 5 year olds are still learning and make mistakes and this would be a learning opportunity.

If it's happening daily or one kid is hitting another, specific kid frequently, totally different. First I'd be upset that it was allowed to go on this long (in a preschool classroom, ever single incident of physical violence should be addressed and discussed -- the kids need continual feedback on this specific issue.

Occurs about weekly for several months with various kids. The director says it’s not disciplined because it’s developmentally age appropriate.

What do you mean by “not disciplined”? I find it hard to believe they do nothing at all. if what you want is for the kid to be punished, then the director is right. Discipline does not mean punishment.

I think punch in the face is visit with the director.
The current discipline is just a little talk.

Ok I’m get a sense of the issue now.

I side with the school. At this age, the goal is guidance, modeling, gentle correction. For most kids, that’s enough. What you are describing as “a little talk”? That’s call teaching. It’s how I would handle an incident of hitting in my own home at that age as well.

What is the benefit of the program director getting involved in these incidents? Do you really think the kids at that age are impressed by that? Or is it that YOU are impressed by it and that’s what makes you feel that your concerns are addressed. But it’s not about you. It’s about the kids.

Also, what you might be missing is that in between these incidents, the teachers are likely proactively teaching the kids other, better options for conflict resolution. That’s more productive than engaging in harsh discipline when a child resorts to hitting. What these kids need is to learn ways to manage and express their feelings other than hitting. That’s ultimately what leads to them no longer hitting. Harsh punishment can have the opposite effect, increasing violent behavior because it teaches them to think in black and white terms about behavior and makes them punishment minded.

Well it’s not working so something should be changed.

[Anonymous]

It’s never unprovoked. There was some reason the child punched.

Or maybe by “unprovoked” you mean the child who was punched didn’t provoke it. I can believe that.

But SOMETHING provoked the puncher.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am the mother of a child who hit kids every single day in kindergarten. The behavior absolutely mortified me. I was so ashamed and saddened by my son's behavior. We were not an aggressive household and we did everything we could think of to change the behavior: working with a psychologist, working with the school. Of course, the parents of the other kids didn't know this. They only knew that my son was "violent."

Anyway, the behavior completely stopped in first grade. My son has an anxiety disorder and when he was small it came out as aggression. He eventually learned to verbally express when he was feeling anxious and the aggression disappeared.

He is now 14 in 9th grade and he is the most gentle kid around. He still has anxiety which manifests itself differently (shyness, social anxiety, etc).

The point of my post is that the adults may be trying very hard to manage the behavior. No parent enjoys being the parent of "that kid."

Why did you put quotes around “violent”? Your child was violent. Period. He’s apparently not now, but he was then.

Stuff like putting quotes around violent (which I’m sure came across in the way you spoke about him too, not just the way you’re writing about him) is the exact problem that people have with you. You’re in denial and acting like the violence isn’t that bad or isn’t really violence and so shouldn’t be called that. Acknowledging the problem would have made other parents less frustrated with you.

DP. When you have the child with externalizing behavior (the correct clinical term) the last thing you should care about is what other parents think. Calling out parents, insisting that they make some public acknowledgement that their child is “bad,” does nothing for anyone. Your demands that PP use certain words are all about you, not about the kid and how to help them.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Also very relevant: one time incident or ongoing issue? If it happened one time, I'd say "age appropriate" because 5 year olds are still learning and make mistakes and this would be a learning opportunity.

If it's happening daily or one kid is hitting another, specific kid frequently, totally different. First I'd be upset that it was allowed to go on this long (in a preschool classroom, ever single incident of physical violence should be addressed and discussed -- the kids need continual feedback on this specific issue.

Occurs about weekly for several months with various kids. The director says it’s not disciplined because it’s developmentally age appropriate.

What do you mean by “not disciplined”? I find it hard to believe they do nothing at all. if what you want is for the kid to be punished, then the director is right. Discipline does not mean punishment.

I think punch in the face is visit with the director.
The current discipline is just a little talk.

Ok I’m get a sense of the issue now.

I side with the school. At this age, the goal is guidance, modeling, gentle correction. For most kids, that’s enough. What you are describing as “a little talk”? That’s call teaching. It’s how I would handle an incident of hitting in my own home at that age as well.

What is the benefit of the program director getting involved in these incidents? Do you really think the kids at that age are impressed by that? Or is it that YOU are impressed by it and that’s what makes you feel that your concerns are addressed. But it’s not about you. It’s about the kids.

Also, what you might be missing is that in between these incidents, the teachers are likely proactively teaching the kids other, better options for conflict resolution. That’s more productive than engaging in harsh discipline when a child resorts to hitting. What these kids need is to learn ways to manage and express their feelings other than hitting. That’s ultimately what leads to them no longer hitting. Harsh punishment can have the opposite effect, increasing violent behavior because it teaches them to think in black and white terms about behavior and makes them punishment minded.

Well it’s not working so something should be changed.

What do you think should happen?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Also very relevant: one time incident or ongoing issue? If it happened one time, I'd say "age appropriate" because 5 year olds are still learning and make mistakes and this would be a learning opportunity.

If it's happening daily or one kid is hitting another, specific kid frequently, totally different. First I'd be upset that it was allowed to go on this long (in a preschool classroom, ever single incident of physical violence should be addressed and discussed -- the kids need continual feedback on this specific issue.

Occurs about weekly for several months with various kids. The director says it’s not disciplined because it’s developmentally age appropriate.

What do you mean by “not disciplined”? I find it hard to believe they do nothing at all. if what you want is for the kid to be punished, then the director is right. Discipline does not mean punishment.

I think punch in the face is visit with the director.
The current discipline is just a little talk.

Ok I’m get a sense of the issue now.

I side with the school. At this age, the goal is guidance, modeling, gentle correction. For most kids, that’s enough. What you are describing as “a little talk”? That’s call teaching. It’s how I would handle an incident of hitting in my own home at that age as well.

What is the benefit of the program director getting involved in these incidents? Do you really think the kids at that age are impressed by that? Or is it that YOU are impressed by it and that’s what makes you feel that your concerns are addressed. But it’s not about you. It’s about the kids.

Also, what you might be missing is that in between these incidents, the teachers are likely proactively teaching the kids other, better options for conflict resolution. That’s more productive than engaging in harsh discipline when a child resorts to hitting. What these kids need is to learn ways to manage and express their feelings other than hitting. That’s ultimately what leads to them no longer hitting. Harsh punishment can have the opposite effect, increasing violent behavior because it teaches them to think in black and white terms about behavior and makes them punishment minded.

Well it’s not working so something should be changed.

What do you think should happen?

I think the parents should be called and involved

[Anonymous]

It’s the worst feeling when it’s your own kid

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Also very relevant: one time incident or ongoing issue? If it happened one time, I'd say "age appropriate" because 5 year olds are still learning and make mistakes and this would be a learning opportunity.

If it's happening daily or one kid is hitting another, specific kid frequently, totally different. First I'd be upset that it was allowed to go on this long (in a preschool classroom, ever single incident of physical violence should be addressed and discussed -- the kids need continual feedback on this specific issue.

Occurs about weekly for several months with various kids. The director says it’s not disciplined because it’s developmentally age appropriate.

What do you mean by “not disciplined”? I find it hard to believe they do nothing at all. if what you want is for the kid to be punished, then the director is right. Discipline does not mean punishment.

I think punch in the face is visit with the director.
The current discipline is just a little talk.

Ok I’m get a sense of the issue now.

I side with the school. At this age, the goal is guidance, modeling, gentle correction. For most kids, that’s enough. What you are describing as “a little talk”? That’s call teaching. It’s how I would handle an incident of hitting in my own home at that age as well.

What is the benefit of the program director getting involved in these incidents? Do you really think the kids at that age are impressed by that? Or is it that YOU are impressed by it and that’s what makes you feel that your concerns are addressed. But it’s not about you. It’s about the kids.

Also, what you might be missing is that in between these incidents, the teachers are likely proactively teaching the kids other, better options for conflict resolution. That’s more productive than engaging in harsh discipline when a child resorts to hitting. What these kids need is to learn ways to manage and express their feelings other than hitting. That’s ultimately what leads to them no longer hitting. Harsh punishment can have the opposite effect, increasing violent behavior because it teaches them to think in black and white terms about behavior and makes them punishment minded.

Well it’s not working so something should be changed.

What do you think should happen?

I think the parents should be called and involved

What makes you think they are not?

[Anonymous]

OP is being super vague and I suspect the school is in the right here.

If it's the same child hitting/punching every week, and there is no improvement in behavior even after the teacher disrupts the behavior and talks to them each time, I can see being frustrated and wanting a more proactive approach. Especially if it were a case of the same child hitting specifically YOUR kid every week -- I would absolutely be looking to set up a meeting to discuss because that isn't acceptable.

But the vague language OP uses indicates that this is just general behavior in the classroom at times. That once a week or so, a kid (could be a different kid each time) hits or pushes another kid, and the teachers handle it by having a discussion with the children. That's very normal in a PK or even K classroom. These kids are still learning to self-regulate and finding ways to resolve differences or frustrations other than physical violence. Especially if you are just talking about small incidents and no one is ever getting hurt, this doesn't sound like a big problem.

Also, OP identified this as a 5-5.5 classroom. That's weird. My guess is that it's a 4/5 classroom where kids start the year at 4, and because it's late in the school year, most kids are 5 by now. But this behavior is VERY common in PK4. You see less of it in K and also you are more likely to see actual discipline for hitting in K (time-outs, removal from activities, calling parents in) because by then the kids are expected to have better self-control and also there is less time in the classroom to dedicate to managing conflicts or addressing misbehavior. It's a natural progression.

If I'm wrong and OP's kid is being hit regularly by the same kid without the school addressing it, my apologies. But I'm guessing what is happening is that OP's kid is coming home sometimes and saying "Timmy pushed me in line to wash hands!" or "Jenny got mad and hit my shoulder during water time" or whatever. Those are normal events in a preschool classroom and not targeted bullying that requires a heavy-handed intervention.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Also very relevant: one time incident or ongoing issue? If it happened one time, I'd say "age appropriate" because 5 year olds are still learning and make mistakes and this would be a learning opportunity.

If it's happening daily or one kid is hitting another, specific kid frequently, totally different. First I'd be upset that it was allowed to go on this long (in a preschool classroom, ever single incident of physical violence should be addressed and discussed -- the kids need continual feedback on this specific issue.

Occurs about weekly for several months with various kids. The director says it’s not disciplined because it’s developmentally age appropriate.

What do you mean by “not disciplined”? I find it hard to believe they do nothing at all. if what you want is for the kid to be punished, then the director is right. Discipline does not mean punishment.

I think punch in the face is visit with the director.
The current discipline is just a little talk.

Ok I’m get a sense of the issue now.

I side with the school. At this age, the goal is guidance, modeling, gentle correction. For most kids, that’s enough. What you are describing as “a little talk”? That’s call teaching. It’s how I would handle an incident of hitting in my own home at that age as well.

What is the benefit of the program director getting involved in these incidents? Do you really think the kids at that age are impressed by that? Or is it that YOU are impressed by it and that’s what makes you feel that your concerns are addressed. But it’s not about you. It’s about the kids.

Also, what you might be missing is that in between these incidents, the teachers are likely proactively teaching the kids other, better options for conflict resolution. That’s more productive than engaging in harsh discipline when a child resorts to hitting. What these kids need is to learn ways to manage and express their feelings other than hitting. That’s ultimately what leads to them no longer hitting. Harsh punishment can have the opposite effect, increasing violent behavior because it teaches them to think in black and white terms about behavior and makes them punishment minded.

Well it’s not working so something should be changed.

What do you think should happen?

I think the parents should be called and involved

For every altercation? Among 5 year olds? If a child shoves another child during read along time, should the teacher call both sets of parents and discuss it? Or should the teacher stop reading, remind the kids that pushing and shoving are not tolerated, and separate the kids for the rest of read along, and maybe check in later to make sure that the kid who shoved understand why that was inappropriate and discuss how to better handle that situation in the future?

I do not want a phone call and a meeting every time two preschool students have a minor conflict that involves pushing or hitting that does not result in injury.

If a kid is injured, yes I want a call. If the pushing/hitting is happening all the time and involving the same kids, yes call me. But just random altercations between various kids? No, that's just preschool.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am the mother of a child who hit kids every single day in kindergarten. The behavior absolutely mortified me. I was so ashamed and saddened by my son's behavior. We were not an aggressive household and we did everything we could think of to change the behavior: working with a psychologist, working with the school. Of course, the parents of the other kids didn't know this. They only knew that my son was "violent."

Anyway, the behavior completely stopped in first grade. My son has an anxiety disorder and when he was small it came out as aggression. He eventually learned to verbally express when he was feeling anxious and the aggression disappeared.

He is now 14 in 9th grade and he is the most gentle kid around. He still has anxiety which manifests itself differently (shyness, social anxiety, etc).

The point of my post is that the adults may be trying very hard to manage the behavior. No parent enjoys being the parent of "that kid."

Why did you put quotes around “violent”? Your child was violent. Period. He’s apparently not now, but he was then.

Stuff like putting quotes around violent (which I’m sure came across in the way you spoke about him too, not just the way you’re writing about him) is the exact problem that people have with you. You’re in denial and acting like the violence isn’t that bad or isn’t really violence and so shouldn’t be called that. Acknowledging the problem would have made other parents less frustrated with you.

All this. But he’s an angel now!

No one HAS to give a crap about your kid’s anxiety when it is “externally expressed” (precious!) as physical violence.