Who are the kids that get into TJ from the lower ranking middle schools?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My DC with very similar stats was rejected from Longfellow but I think your child has an excellent chance of being admitted. Good luck!

Did you end up sending your kid to McLean or did you find another school? How is it working out?

We are appalled by the arrogant, dismissive attitude of the school board member about the overcrowding there and not sure we can stomach sending DC there.

What does a school board member have to do with how a high school is for a student? Strange leap.

Because School Board members should be representing their districts and should be trying to find solutions for over crowded schools in their districts. There are only a few At Large seats on the School Board, the rest are meant to represent specific localities.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have a child at poorly performing MS which, prior to the admission policy change, typically did not have any students admitted to TJ. DC is truly a brilliant and hardworking kid - the top student in honors geometry (near perfect average), acing the rest of their all honors courses, all advanced pass or perfect SOL scores, etc. DC is white and we do not qualify for free/reduced priced meals.

I'm curious to know what the admittance pool looks like at a school like ours? Do we have a shot or are the spots typically offered to high performing students with one or more "experience factors"?

I hope to keep the conversation civil and am genuinely asking out of curiosity. TIA!

One from ours was such an outlier. Real genius even. Don't think they would've stood a chance with the old system though since their family is low-income and wouldn't even consider prep classes that were required to be competitive then.

Prep was never necessary. My two kids and many others did no prep. Stop with those lies.

OP, your kid should do well coming from a low performing school. It’s the kids like yours at high performing schools that are getting rejected.

It is not a lie that kids prepped. Prep programs posted the names of kids who were accepted into TJ and similar schools. And they posted them for many years, you used to be able to look at the roster for many years back.

Were there kids who were accepted who did not prep? Yes. Was there a large percentage of kids who did prep? Yes. By the time they were dropping the Quant test, there were more kids who had participated in prep programs then had not.

The reality is that parents who are very invested in their kids attending TJ will look at what seems to work and replicate that. Prep worked, so you saw that practice grow. The prep now is shifting from the Quant test and to essay prep, people are discussing it and the prep programs, like Currie, are more focused on the writing portion in their write ups. If moving schools seems to work I would guess that you will see more families do that. If you can afford the cost of the prep programs, and they do run in the 10,000-20,000 range for 7th and 8th grade, then you can rent a cheap apartment and drive your kid to school for a year or two.

The kids whose parents are looking to game the system are not the majority of the school but they are a significant percentage of the school. I am sure it sucks for the kids who didn’t go to the prep schools or look to game the system but it doesn’t change the fact that it did happen and is continuing to happen today.

You said prep was “required.” It was not. Choose your words more carefully rather than buying into the TJ bashing.

[Anonymous]

Hi, OP. My DS went to TJ (under the old admission system) from a low performing MS that typically sent a few students a year. HIs teachers were instrumental in encouraging him to apply and getting him prepared. No outside prep. Worked out great.

I don't know how the new admissions factors will work, or if the admissions process will continue to evolve.

If I were in your shoes, I would encourage my child to reach out to science and math teachers and let them know they are interested in TJ and ask about STEM opportunities. If the MS gets to identify the top 1.5% then I would want my child on their radar. Teachers and counselors at your MS, not DCUM, are likely best equipped to give your child advice.

Good luck!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have a child at poorly performing MS which, prior to the admission policy change, typically did not have any students admitted to TJ. DC is truly a brilliant and hardworking kid - the top student in honors geometry (near perfect average), acing the rest of their all honors courses, all advanced pass or perfect SOL scores, etc. DC is white and we do not qualify for free/reduced priced meals.

I'm curious to know what the admittance pool looks like at a school like ours? Do we have a shot or are the spots typically offered to high performing students with one or more "experience factors"?

I hope to keep the conversation civil and am genuinely asking out of curiosity. TIA!

One from ours was such an outlier. Real genius even. Don't think they would've stood a chance with the old system though since their family is low-income and wouldn't even consider prep classes that were required to be competitive then.

Prep was never necessary. My two kids and many others did no prep. Stop with those lies.

OP, your kid should do well coming from a low performing school. It’s the kids like yours at high performing schools that are getting rejected.

It is not a lie that kids prepped. Prep programs posted the names of kids who were accepted into TJ and similar schools. And they posted them for many years, you used to be able to look at the roster for many years back.

Were there kids who were accepted who did not prep? Yes. Was there a large percentage of kids who did prep? Yes. By the time they were dropping the Quant test, there were more kids who had participated in prep programs then had not.

The reality is that parents who are very invested in their kids attending TJ will look at what seems to work and replicate that. Prep worked, so you saw that practice grow. The prep now is shifting from the Quant test and to essay prep, people are discussing it and the prep programs, like Currie, are more focused on the writing portion in their write ups. If moving schools seems to work I would guess that you will see more families do that. If you can afford the cost of the prep programs, and they do run in the 10,000-20,000 range for 7th and 8th grade, then you can rent a cheap apartment and drive your kid to school for a year or two.

The kids whose parents are looking to game the system are not the majority of the school but they are a significant percentage of the school. I am sure it sucks for the kids who didn’t go to the prep schools or look to game the system but it doesn’t change the fact that it did happen and is continuing to happen today.

You said prep was “required.” It was not. Choose your words more carefully rather than buying into the TJ bashing.

I did not post that prep was required. This is an anonymous board, people with different opinions are going to post and quote posts. Don't assume that you are talking to the same person because you are not.

There are kids who prepped and there are kids who did not. There seem to be folks on both side of the debate that are 100% stuck on one particular line and unable to see the middle ground. There are a few posters who keep screaming that every kid prepped, and that is BS. There are a few posters who claim no one prepped and that there was no cheating on the Quant test, and that is BS. There is plenty of evidence that there are kids who prepped, and that the number of prepped kids increased as people saw that it worked, and that there are prep schools that had test banks that provided an advantage to kids who attended the prep programs. There are also kids who were accepted into TJ who did not attend those prep programs and who did not have advanced access to the tests.

Also, saying that kids prepped and that some used test banks is not bashing TJ. I taught at the University level for 10 years. The Greek Houses had test banks that their members studied out of, it is common knowledge. I enjoyed screwing with those kids because I knew it was happening. It is a fact that test banks exist at many schools, regardless of the level so HS and College. The test administrators for TJ should have been aware of that and adjusted the test just like I did when I taught. There were Professors who didn't adjust their tests and were, essentially, fine with the knowledge that students were cheating in their classes. TJ decided to get rid of the test instead of taking the time to adjust the test. I don't agree with that, I think it is lazy.

Saying that the admissions practices for TJ need to shift is not bashing TJ. It is saying that I think that TJ should reflect the County it is based in. I like the MS distribution of seats. I like that the application no longer takes into consideration extra activities outside of school opportunities available to all kids. I would be fine with letters of recommendations and a test that was re-written every year to avoid the issues with cheating. I think that requirements could be shifted to require honors classes or AAP classes in all core classes, geometry by the end of 8th grade, and a higher GPA.

That is not bashing TJ but wanting to have a program that is accessible to more students and were kids have a chance to participate across the County.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have a child at poorly performing MS which, prior to the admission policy change, typically did not have any students admitted to TJ. DC is truly a brilliant and hardworking kid - the top student in honors geometry (near perfect average), acing the rest of their all honors courses, all advanced pass or perfect SOL scores, etc. DC is white and we do not qualify for free/reduced priced meals.

I'm curious to know what the admittance pool looks like at a school like ours? Do we have a shot or are the spots typically offered to high performing students with one or more "experience factors"?

I hope to keep the conversation civil and am genuinely asking out of curiosity. TIA!

One from ours was such an outlier. Real genius even. Don't think they would've stood a chance with the old system though since their family is low-income and wouldn't even consider prep classes that were required to be competitive then.

Prep was never necessary. My two kids and many others did no prep. Stop with those lies.

OP, your kid should do well coming from a low performing school. It’s the kids like yours at high performing schools that are getting rejected.

It is not a lie that kids prepped. Prep programs posted the names of kids who were accepted into TJ and similar schools. And they posted them for many years, you used to be able to look at the roster for many years back.

Were there kids who were accepted who did not prep? Yes. Was there a large percentage of kids who did prep? Yes. By the time they were dropping the Quant test, there were more kids who had participated in prep programs then had not.

The reality is that parents who are very invested in their kids attending TJ will look at what seems to work and replicate that. Prep worked, so you saw that practice grow. The prep now is shifting from the Quant test and to essay prep, people are discussing it and the prep programs, like Currie, are more focused on the writing portion in their write ups. If moving schools seems to work I would guess that you will see more families do that. If you can afford the cost of the prep programs, and they do run in the 10,000-20,000 range for 7th and 8th grade, then you can rent a cheap apartment and drive your kid to school for a year or two.

The kids whose parents are looking to game the system are not the majority of the school but they are a significant percentage of the school. I am sure it sucks for the kids who didn’t go to the prep schools or look to game the system but it doesn’t change the fact that it did happen and is continuing to happen today.

You said prep was “required.” It was not. Choose your words more carefully rather than buying into the TJ bashing.

I did not post that prep was required. This is an anonymous board, people with different opinions are going to post and quote posts. Don't assume that you are talking to the same person because you are not.

There are kids who prepped and there are kids who did not. There seem to be folks on both side of the debate that are 100% stuck on one particular line and unable to see the middle ground. There are a few posters who keep screaming that every kid prepped, and that is BS. There are a few posters who claim no one prepped and that there was no cheating on the Quant test, and that is BS. There is plenty of evidence that there are kids who prepped, and that the number of prepped kids increased as people saw that it worked, and that there are prep schools that had test banks that provided an advantage to kids who attended the prep programs. There are also kids who were accepted into TJ who did not attend those prep programs and who did not have advanced access to the tests.

Also, saying that kids prepped and that some used test banks is not bashing TJ. I taught at the University level for 10 years. The Greek Houses had test banks that their members studied out of, it is common knowledge. I enjoyed screwing with those kids because I knew it was happening. It is a fact that test banks exist at many schools, regardless of the level so HS and College. The test administrators for TJ should have been aware of that and adjusted the test just like I did when I taught. There were Professors who didn't adjust their tests and were, essentially, fine with the knowledge that students were cheating in their classes. TJ decided to get rid of the test instead of taking the time to adjust the test. I don't agree with that, I think it is lazy.

Saying that the admissions practices for TJ need to shift is not bashing TJ. It is saying that I think that TJ should reflect the County it is based in. I like the MS distribution of seats. I like that the application no longer takes into consideration extra activities outside of school opportunities available to all kids. I would be fine with letters of recommendations and a test that was re-written every year to avoid the issues with cheating. I think that requirements could be shifted to require honors classes or AAP classes in all core classes, geometry by the end of 8th grade, and a higher GPA.

That is not bashing TJ but wanting to have a program that is accessible to more students and were kids have a chance to participate across the County.

TJ is a regional Governor's School, not a county public works program.

Does every other county that participates in TJ now make seats available on the same basis as FCPS does now, with middle school set-asides?

No one objects when a few schools like Westfield, Hayfield, and South County tend to dominate in athletics, but somehow it's "unfair" and has to be corrected if some middle schools have stronger kids academically.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have a child at poorly performing MS which, prior to the admission policy change, typically did not have any students admitted to TJ. DC is truly a brilliant and hardworking kid - the top student in honors geometry (near perfect average), acing the rest of their all honors courses, all advanced pass or perfect SOL scores, etc. DC is white and we do not qualify for free/reduced priced meals.

I'm curious to know what the admittance pool looks like at a school like ours? Do we have a shot or are the spots typically offered to high performing students with one or more "experience factors"?

I hope to keep the conversation civil and am genuinely asking out of curiosity. TIA!

One from ours was such an outlier. Real genius even. Don't think they would've stood a chance with the old system though since their family is low-income and wouldn't even consider prep classes that were required to be competitive then.

Prep was never necessary. My two kids and many others did no prep. Stop with those lies.

OP, your kid should do well coming from a low performing school. It’s the kids like yours at high performing schools that are getting rejected.

It is not a lie that kids prepped. Prep programs posted the names of kids who were accepted into TJ and similar schools. And they posted them for many years, you used to be able to look at the roster for many years back.

Were there kids who were accepted who did not prep? Yes. Was there a large percentage of kids who did prep? Yes. By the time they were dropping the Quant test, there were more kids who had participated in prep programs then had not.

The reality is that parents who are very invested in their kids attending TJ will look at what seems to work and replicate that. Prep worked, so you saw that practice grow. The prep now is shifting from the Quant test and to essay prep, people are discussing it and the prep programs, like Currie, are more focused on the writing portion in their write ups. If moving schools seems to work I would guess that you will see more families do that. If you can afford the cost of the prep programs, and they do run in the 10,000-20,000 range for 7th and 8th grade, then you can rent a cheap apartment and drive your kid to school for a year or two.

The kids whose parents are looking to game the system are not the majority of the school but they are a significant percentage of the school. I am sure it sucks for the kids who didn’t go to the prep schools or look to game the system but it doesn’t change the fact that it did happen and is continuing to happen today.

You said prep was “required.” It was not. Choose your words more carefully rather than buying into the TJ bashing.

I did not post that prep was required. This is an anonymous board, people with different opinions are going to post and quote posts. Don't assume that you are talking to the same person because you are not.

There are kids who prepped and there are kids who did not. There seem to be folks on both side of the debate that are 100% stuck on one particular line and unable to see the middle ground. There are a few posters who keep screaming that every kid prepped, and that is BS. There are a few posters who claim no one prepped and that there was no cheating on the Quant test, and that is BS. There is plenty of evidence that there are kids who prepped, and that the number of prepped kids increased as people saw that it worked, and that there are prep schools that had test banks that provided an advantage to kids who attended the prep programs. There are also kids who were accepted into TJ who did not attend those prep programs and who did not have advanced access to the tests.

Also, saying that kids prepped and that some used test banks is not bashing TJ. I taught at the University level for 10 years. The Greek Houses had test banks that their members studied out of, it is common knowledge. I enjoyed screwing with those kids because I knew it was happening. It is a fact that test banks exist at many schools, regardless of the level so HS and College. The test administrators for TJ should have been aware of that and adjusted the test just like I did when I taught. There were Professors who didn't adjust their tests and were, essentially, fine with the knowledge that students were cheating in their classes. TJ decided to get rid of the test instead of taking the time to adjust the test. I don't agree with that, I think it is lazy.

Saying that the admissions practices for TJ need to shift is not bashing TJ. It is saying that I think that TJ should reflect the County it is based in. I like the MS distribution of seats. I like that the application no longer takes into consideration extra activities outside of school opportunities available to all kids. I would be fine with letters of recommendations and a test that was re-written every year to avoid the issues with cheating. I think that requirements could be shifted to require honors classes or AAP classes in all core classes, geometry by the end of 8th grade, and a higher GPA.

That is not bashing TJ but wanting to have a program that is accessible to more students and were kids have a chance to participate across the County.

TJ is a regional Governor's School, not a county public works program.

Does every other county that participates in TJ now make seats available on the same basis as FCPS does now, with middle school set-asides?

No one objects when a few schools like Westfield, Hayfield, and South County tend to dominate in athletics, but somehow it's "unfair" and has to be corrected if some middle schools have stronger kids academically.

If you don't like TJ now, you should look at how other governors schools operate. Blue Ridge is the model that I like is Blue Ridge which spreads the classes across multiple schools and only makes them accessable to upper class men

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have a child at poorly performing MS which, prior to the admission policy change, typically did not have any students admitted to TJ. DC is truly a brilliant and hardworking kid - the top student in honors geometry (near perfect average), acing the rest of their all honors courses, all advanced pass or perfect SOL scores, etc. DC is white and we do not qualify for free/reduced priced meals.

I'm curious to know what the admittance pool looks like at a school like ours? Do we have a shot or are the spots typically offered to high performing students with one or more "experience factors"?

I hope to keep the conversation civil and am genuinely asking out of curiosity. TIA!

One from ours was such an outlier. Real genius even. Don't think they would've stood a chance with the old system though since their family is low-income and wouldn't even consider prep classes that were required to be competitive then.

Prep was never necessary. My two kids and many others did no prep. Stop with those lies.

OP, your kid should do well coming from a low performing school. It’s the kids like yours at high performing schools that are getting rejected.

It is not a lie that kids prepped. Prep programs posted the names of kids who were accepted into TJ and similar schools. And they posted them for many years, you used to be able to look at the roster for many years back.

Were there kids who were accepted who did not prep? Yes. Was there a large percentage of kids who did prep? Yes. By the time they were dropping the Quant test, there were more kids who had participated in prep programs then had not.

The reality is that parents who are very invested in their kids attending TJ will look at what seems to work and replicate that. Prep worked, so you saw that practice grow. The prep now is shifting from the Quant test and to essay prep, people are discussing it and the prep programs, like Currie, are more focused on the writing portion in their write ups. If moving schools seems to work I would guess that you will see more families do that. If you can afford the cost of the prep programs, and they do run in the 10,000-20,000 range for 7th and 8th grade, then you can rent a cheap apartment and drive your kid to school for a year or two.

The kids whose parents are looking to game the system are not the majority of the school but they are a significant percentage of the school. I am sure it sucks for the kids who didn’t go to the prep schools or look to game the system but it doesn’t change the fact that it did happen and is continuing to happen today.

You said prep was “required.” It was not. Choose your words more carefully rather than buying into the TJ bashing.

I did not post that prep was required. This is an anonymous board, people with different opinions are going to post and quote posts. Don't assume that you are talking to the same person because you are not.

There are kids who prepped and there are kids who did not. There seem to be folks on both side of the debate that are 100% stuck on one particular line and unable to see the middle ground. There are a few posters who keep screaming that every kid prepped, and that is BS. There are a few posters who claim no one prepped and that there was no cheating on the Quant test, and that is BS. There is plenty of evidence that there are kids who prepped, and that the number of prepped kids increased as people saw that it worked, and that there are prep schools that had test banks that provided an advantage to kids who attended the prep programs. There are also kids who were accepted into TJ who did not attend those prep programs and who did not have advanced access to the tests.

Also, saying that kids prepped and that some used test banks is not bashing TJ. I taught at the University level for 10 years. The Greek Houses had test banks that their members studied out of, it is common knowledge. I enjoyed screwing with those kids because I knew it was happening. It is a fact that test banks exist at many schools, regardless of the level so HS and College. The test administrators for TJ should have been aware of that and adjusted the test just like I did when I taught. There were Professors who didn't adjust their tests and were, essentially, fine with the knowledge that students were cheating in their classes. TJ decided to get rid of the test instead of taking the time to adjust the test. I don't agree with that, I think it is lazy.

Saying that the admissions practices for TJ need to shift is not bashing TJ. It is saying that I think that TJ should reflect the County it is based in. I like the MS distribution of seats. I like that the application no longer takes into consideration extra activities outside of school opportunities available to all kids. I would be fine with letters of recommendations and a test that was re-written every year to avoid the issues with cheating. I think that requirements could be shifted to require honors classes or AAP classes in all core classes, geometry by the end of 8th grade, and a higher GPA.

That is not bashing TJ but wanting to have a program that is accessible to more students and were kids have a chance to participate across the County.

TJ is a regional Governor's School, not a county public works program.

Does every other county that participates in TJ now make seats available on the same basis as FCPS does now, with middle school set-asides?

No one objects when a few schools like Westfield, Hayfield, and South County tend to dominate in athletics, but somehow it's "unfair" and has to be corrected if some middle schools have stronger kids academically.

TJ is a Governor's School that is seated in FCPS with the vast majority of seats coming to FCPS. Loundoun County and MOCO rations it's seats to it's magnate schools as well. I don't know how Loundoun or Arlington are handling admissions to TJ, I don't live there so I am not worried about it.

There are kids who qualify for TJ at every MS in FCPS. All of those kids should have a chance to attend if they want. If those seats are not filled, due to lack of candidates meeting the criteria or a lack of interest, those seats are entered into the pool. They are not lost.

Athletics are an extra curricular activity that kids at every school have access to, including kids at TJ. If parents choose to move to certain schools because they think the athletics could be a plus for their kids, that is their choice. Their kids would have a chance to play at the high school level at every school in the County.

TJ is a unique STEM program that is meant to be available to all students who meet the eligibility requirements in FCPS and the near by counties who choose to pay for their students to attend. It should be available to every eligible child across FCPS. The specialized labs and classes are not available every where. Making sure that all kids in the County have access is important to me and to others. And I do believe that there are interested kids who meet the requirements for TJ at every MS. I have no issue with making sure that there are seats from every MS. There are at large seats available for all kids. If the feeder schools have lost some seats to schools that have traditionally not sent anyone or sent only a few kids then so be it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have a child at poorly performing MS which, prior to the admission policy change, typically did not have any students admitted to TJ. DC is truly a brilliant and hardworking kid - the top student in honors geometry (near perfect average), acing the rest of their all honors courses, all advanced pass or perfect SOL scores, etc. DC is white and we do not qualify for free/reduced priced meals.

I'm curious to know what the admittance pool looks like at a school like ours? Do we have a shot or are the spots typically offered to high performing students with one or more "experience factors"?

I hope to keep the conversation civil and am genuinely asking out of curiosity. TIA!

One from ours was such an outlier. Real genius even. Don't think they would've stood a chance with the old system though since their family is low-income and wouldn't even consider prep classes that were required to be competitive then.

Prep was never necessary. My two kids and many others did no prep. Stop with those lies.

OP, your kid should do well coming from a low performing school. It’s the kids like yours at high performing schools that are getting rejected.

It is not a lie that kids prepped. Prep programs posted the names of kids who were accepted into TJ and similar schools. And they posted them for many years, you used to be able to look at the roster for many years back.

Were there kids who were accepted who did not prep? Yes. Was there a large percentage of kids who did prep? Yes. By the time they were dropping the Quant test, there were more kids who had participated in prep programs then had not.

The reality is that parents who are very invested in their kids attending TJ will look at what seems to work and replicate that. Prep worked, so you saw that practice grow. The prep now is shifting from the Quant test and to essay prep, people are discussing it and the prep programs, like Currie, are more focused on the writing portion in their write ups. If moving schools seems to work I would guess that you will see more families do that. If you can afford the cost of the prep programs, and they do run in the 10,000-20,000 range for 7th and 8th grade, then you can rent a cheap apartment and drive your kid to school for a year or two.

The kids whose parents are looking to game the system are not the majority of the school but they are a significant percentage of the school. I am sure it sucks for the kids who didn’t go to the prep schools or look to game the system but it doesn’t change the fact that it did happen and is continuing to happen today.

You said prep was “required.” It was not. Choose your words more carefully rather than buying into the TJ bashing.

I did not post that prep was required. This is an anonymous board, people with different opinions are going to post and quote posts. Don't assume that you are talking to the same person because you are not.

There are kids who prepped and there are kids who did not. There seem to be folks on both side of the debate that are 100% stuck on one particular line and unable to see the middle ground. There are a few posters who keep screaming that every kid prepped, and that is BS. There are a few posters who claim no one prepped and that there was no cheating on the Quant test, and that is BS. There is plenty of evidence that there are kids who prepped, and that the number of prepped kids increased as people saw that it worked, and that there are prep schools that had test banks that provided an advantage to kids who attended the prep programs. There are also kids who were accepted into TJ who did not attend those prep programs and who did not have advanced access to the tests.

Also, saying that kids prepped and that some used test banks is not bashing TJ. I taught at the University level for 10 years. The Greek Houses had test banks that their members studied out of, it is common knowledge. I enjoyed screwing with those kids because I knew it was happening. It is a fact that test banks exist at many schools, regardless of the level so HS and College. The test administrators for TJ should have been aware of that and adjusted the test just like I did when I taught. There were Professors who didn't adjust their tests and were, essentially, fine with the knowledge that students were cheating in their classes. TJ decided to get rid of the test instead of taking the time to adjust the test. I don't agree with that, I think it is lazy.

Saying that the admissions practices for TJ need to shift is not bashing TJ. It is saying that I think that TJ should reflect the County it is based in. I like the MS distribution of seats. I like that the application no longer takes into consideration extra activities outside of school opportunities available to all kids. I would be fine with letters of recommendations and a test that was re-written every year to avoid the issues with cheating. I think that requirements could be shifted to require honors classes or AAP classes in all core classes, geometry by the end of 8th grade, and a higher GPA.

That is not bashing TJ but wanting to have a program that is accessible to more students and were kids have a chance to participate across the County.

TJ is a regional Governor's School, not a county public works program.

Does every other county that participates in TJ now make seats available on the same basis as FCPS does now, with middle school set-asides?

No one objects when a few schools like Westfield, Hayfield, and South County tend to dominate in athletics, but somehow it's "unfair" and has to be corrected if some middle schools have stronger kids academically.

DP. Gonna address a couple of issues here.

1) Yes, every other county's middle schools are subject to the 1.5% allocation. That's how there are so many students who are attending TJ from Prince William County now. The number used to be in the 10-20s year over year, and now it's closer to 60-70.

2) It's not "unfair" that some middle schools have stronger kids academically. That's the nature of life when you have AAP offerings and centers and magnet programs and the like - and even moreso when you have disparate resources in different areas of the county. It is problematic when you have schools that literally send no students to the county's flagship school for decades - not the least of which is the fact that striving for that flagship school ceases to become part of the culture of that school.

3) Carson, Rocky Run, and Longfellow are still going to send huge numbers of kids to TJ every year - far more than other, less well-represented schools. And they should - they have a larger number of stronger kids. The kids from those schools who are qualified for TJ will be exposed to a much more diverse environment than they would have been regardless of whether or not they get in, because TJ will look a little more like their base school than it used to. Which, in turn, will be better for their overall education.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have a child at poorly performing MS which, prior to the admission policy change, typically did not have any students admitted to TJ. DC is truly a brilliant and hardworking kid - the top student in honors geometry (near perfect average), acing the rest of their all honors courses, all advanced pass or perfect SOL scores, etc. DC is white and we do not qualify for free/reduced priced meals.

I'm curious to know what the admittance pool looks like at a school like ours? Do we have a shot or are the spots typically offered to high performing students with one or more "experience factors"?

I hope to keep the conversation civil and am genuinely asking out of curiosity. TIA!

One from ours was such an outlier. Real genius even. Don't think they would've stood a chance with the old system though since their family is low-income and wouldn't even consider prep classes that were required to be competitive then.

Prep was never necessary. My two kids and many others did no prep. Stop with those lies.

OP, your kid should do well coming from a low performing school. It’s the kids like yours at high performing schools that are getting rejected.

It is not a lie that kids prepped. Prep programs posted the names of kids who were accepted into TJ and similar schools. And they posted them for many years, you used to be able to look at the roster for many years back.

Were there kids who were accepted who did not prep? Yes. Was there a large percentage of kids who did prep? Yes. By the time they were dropping the Quant test, there were more kids who had participated in prep programs then had not.

The reality is that parents who are very invested in their kids attending TJ will look at what seems to work and replicate that. Prep worked, so you saw that practice grow. The prep now is shifting from the Quant test and to essay prep, people are discussing it and the prep programs, like Currie, are more focused on the writing portion in their write ups. If moving schools seems to work I would guess that you will see more families do that. If you can afford the cost of the prep programs, and they do run in the 10,000-20,000 range for 7th and 8th grade, then you can rent a cheap apartment and drive your kid to school for a year or two.

The kids whose parents are looking to game the system are not the majority of the school but they are a significant percentage of the school. I am sure it sucks for the kids who didn’t go to the prep schools or look to game the system but it doesn’t change the fact that it did happen and is continuing to happen today.

You said prep was “required.” It was not. Choose your words more carefully rather than buying into the TJ bashing.

I did not post that prep was required. This is an anonymous board, people with different opinions are going to post and quote posts. Don't assume that you are talking to the same person because you are not.

There are kids who prepped and there are kids who did not. There seem to be folks on both side of the debate that are 100% stuck on one particular line and unable to see the middle ground. There are a few posters who keep screaming that every kid prepped, and that is BS. There are a few posters who claim no one prepped and that there was no cheating on the Quant test, and that is BS. There is plenty of evidence that there are kids who prepped, and that the number of prepped kids increased as people saw that it worked, and that there are prep schools that had test banks that provided an advantage to kids who attended the prep programs. There are also kids who were accepted into TJ who did not attend those prep programs and who did not have advanced access to the tests.

Also, saying that kids prepped and that some used test banks is not bashing TJ. I taught at the University level for 10 years. The Greek Houses had test banks that their members studied out of, it is common knowledge. I enjoyed screwing with those kids because I knew it was happening. It is a fact that test banks exist at many schools, regardless of the level so HS and College. The test administrators for TJ should have been aware of that and adjusted the test just like I did when I taught. There were Professors who didn't adjust their tests and were, essentially, fine with the knowledge that students were cheating in their classes. TJ decided to get rid of the test instead of taking the time to adjust the test. I don't agree with that, I think it is lazy.

Saying that the admissions practices for TJ need to shift is not bashing TJ. It is saying that I think that TJ should reflect the County it is based in. I like the MS distribution of seats. I like that the application no longer takes into consideration extra activities outside of school opportunities available to all kids. I would be fine with letters of recommendations and a test that was re-written every year to avoid the issues with cheating. I think that requirements could be shifted to require honors classes or AAP classes in all core classes, geometry by the end of 8th grade, and a higher GPA.

That is not bashing TJ but wanting to have a program that is accessible to more students and were kids have a chance to participate across the County.

TJ is a regional Governor's School, not a county public works program.

Does every other county that participates in TJ now make seats available on the same basis as FCPS does now, with middle school set-asides?

No one objects when a few schools like Westfield, Hayfield, and South County tend to dominate in athletics, but somehow it's "unfair" and has to be corrected if some middle schools have stronger kids academically.

TJ is a Governor's School that is seated in FCPS with the vast majority of seats coming to FCPS. Loundoun County and MOCO rations it's seats to it's magnate schools as well. I don't know how Loundoun or Arlington are handling admissions to TJ, I don't live there so I am not worried about it.

There are kids who qualify for TJ at every MS in FCPS. All of those kids should have a chance to attend if they want. If those seats are not filled, due to lack of candidates meeting the criteria or a lack of interest, those seats are entered into the pool. They are not lost.

Athletics are an extra curricular activity that kids at every school have access to, including kids at TJ. If parents choose to move to certain schools because they think the athletics could be a plus for their kids, that is their choice. Their kids would have a chance to play at the high school level at every school in the County.

TJ is a unique STEM program that is meant to be available to all students who meet the eligibility requirements in FCPS and the near by counties who choose to pay for their students to attend. It should be available to every eligible child across FCPS. The specialized labs and classes are not available every where. Making sure that all kids in the County have access is important to me and to others. And I do believe that there are interested kids who meet the requirements for TJ at every MS. I have no issue with making sure that there are seats from every MS. There are at large seats available for all kids. If the feeder schools have lost some seats to schools that have traditionally not sent anyone or sent only a few kids then so be it.

What a word salad.

[Anonymous]

FARMS kids reportedly get a big boost, more than double any GPA difference. There is no boost for being in honors geometry or teacher recommendations. There might be a boost for being at a middle school that doesn't send a lot of students, though it was reported that they dropped that to try and win a lawsuit.
It would come down to who else is applying from the school for about 10 spots available, who would have to be in at least algebra, with a 3.5 gpa.
To beat out these kids, they would have to score 3.5 gpa vs 4.0 for a 37.5 points difference and one less on one of the essays for another 60 points to make up for 90 FARMS.
Among those without FARMS boost, it looks like your kid might have a good chance.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have a child at poorly performing MS which, prior to the admission policy change, typically did not have any students admitted to TJ. DC is truly a brilliant and hardworking kid - the top student in honors geometry (near perfect average), acing the rest of their all honors courses, all advanced pass or perfect SOL scores, etc. DC is white and we do not qualify for free/reduced priced meals.

I'm curious to know what the admittance pool looks like at a school like ours? Do we have a shot or are the spots typically offered to high performing students with one or more "experience factors"?

I hope to keep the conversation civil and am genuinely asking out of curiosity. TIA!

One from ours was such an outlier. Real genius even. Don't think they would've stood a chance with the old system though since their family is low-income and wouldn't even consider prep classes that were required to be competitive then.

Prep was never necessary. My two kids and many others did no prep. Stop with those lies.

OP, your kid should do well coming from a low performing school. It’s the kids like yours at high performing schools that are getting rejected.

It is not a lie that kids prepped. Prep programs posted the names of kids who were accepted into TJ and similar schools. And they posted them for many years, you used to be able to look at the roster for many years back.

Were there kids who were accepted who did not prep? Yes. Was there a large percentage of kids who did prep? Yes. By the time they were dropping the Quant test, there were more kids who had participated in prep programs then had not.

The reality is that parents who are very invested in their kids attending TJ will look at what seems to work and replicate that. Prep worked, so you saw that practice grow. The prep now is shifting from the Quant test and to essay prep, people are discussing it and the prep programs, like Currie, are more focused on the writing portion in their write ups. If moving schools seems to work I would guess that you will see more families do that. If you can afford the cost of the prep programs, and they do run in the 10,000-20,000 range for 7th and 8th grade, then you can rent a cheap apartment and drive your kid to school for a year or two.

The kids whose parents are looking to game the system are not the majority of the school but they are a significant percentage of the school. I am sure it sucks for the kids who didn’t go to the prep schools or look to game the system but it doesn’t change the fact that it did happen and is continuing to happen today.

You said prep was “required.” It was not. Choose your words more carefully rather than buying into the TJ bashing.

I did not post that prep was required. This is an anonymous board, people with different opinions are going to post and quote posts. Don't assume that you are talking to the same person because you are not.

There are kids who prepped and there are kids who did not. There seem to be folks on both side of the debate that are 100% stuck on one particular line and unable to see the middle ground. There are a few posters who keep screaming that every kid prepped, and that is BS. There are a few posters who claim no one prepped and that there was no cheating on the Quant test, and that is BS. There is plenty of evidence that there are kids who prepped, and that the number of prepped kids increased as people saw that it worked, and that there are prep schools that had test banks that provided an advantage to kids who attended the prep programs. There are also kids who were accepted into TJ who did not attend those prep programs and who did not have advanced access to the tests.

Also, saying that kids prepped and that some used test banks is not bashing TJ. I taught at the University level for 10 years. The Greek Houses had test banks that their members studied out of, it is common knowledge. I enjoyed screwing with those kids because I knew it was happening. It is a fact that test banks exist at many schools, regardless of the level so HS and College. The test administrators for TJ should have been aware of that and adjusted the test just like I did when I taught. There were Professors who didn't adjust their tests and were, essentially, fine with the knowledge that students were cheating in their classes. TJ decided to get rid of the test instead of taking the time to adjust the test. I don't agree with that, I think it is lazy.

Saying that the admissions practices for TJ need to shift is not bashing TJ. It is saying that I think that TJ should reflect the County it is based in. I like the MS distribution of seats. I like that the application no longer takes into consideration extra activities outside of school opportunities available to all kids. I would be fine with letters of recommendations and a test that was re-written every year to avoid the issues with cheating. I think that requirements could be shifted to require honors classes or AAP classes in all core classes, geometry by the end of 8th grade, and a higher GPA.

That is not bashing TJ but wanting to have a program that is accessible to more students and were kids have a chance to participate across the County.

TJ is a regional Governor's School, not a county public works program.

Does every other county that participates in TJ now make seats available on the same basis as FCPS does now, with middle school set-asides?

No one objects when a few schools like Westfield, Hayfield, and South County tend to dominate in athletics, but somehow it's "unfair" and has to be corrected if some middle schools have stronger kids academically.

DP. Gonna address a couple of issues here.

1) Yes, every other county's middle schools are subject to the 1.5% allocation. That's how there are so many students who are attending TJ from Prince William County now. The number used to be in the 10-20s year over year, and now it's closer to 60-70.

2) It's not "unfair" that some middle schools have stronger kids academically. That's the nature of life when you have AAP offerings and centers and magnet programs and the like - and even moreso when you have disparate resources in different areas of the county. It is problematic when you have schools that literally send no students to the county's flagship school for decades - not the least of which is the fact that striving for that flagship school ceases to become part of the culture of that school.

3) Carson, Rocky Run, and Longfellow are still going to send huge numbers of kids to TJ every year - far more than other, less well-represented schools. And they should - they have a larger number of stronger kids. The kids from those schools who are qualified for TJ will be exposed to a much more diverse environment than they would have been regardless of whether or not they get in, because TJ will look a little more like their base school than it used to. Which, in turn, will be better for their overall education.

Is this true about PW county? Surprising because those students struggle the most at TJ. They would do better at their base.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have a child at poorly performing MS which, prior to the admission policy change, typically did not have any students admitted to TJ. DC is truly a brilliant and hardworking kid - the top student in honors geometry (near perfect average), acing the rest of their all honors courses, all advanced pass or perfect SOL scores, etc. DC is white and we do not qualify for free/reduced priced meals.

I'm curious to know what the admittance pool looks like at a school like ours? Do we have a shot or are the spots typically offered to high performing students with one or more "experience factors"?

I hope to keep the conversation civil and am genuinely asking out of curiosity. TIA!

One from ours was such an outlier. Real genius even. Don't think they would've stood a chance with the old system though since their family is low-income and wouldn't even consider prep classes that were required to be competitive then.

Prep was never necessary. My two kids and many others did no prep. Stop with those lies.

OP, your kid should do well coming from a low performing school. It’s the kids like yours at high performing schools that are getting rejected.

It is not a lie that kids prepped. Prep programs posted the names of kids who were accepted into TJ and similar schools. And they posted them for many years, you used to be able to look at the roster for many years back.

Were there kids who were accepted who did not prep? Yes. Was there a large percentage of kids who did prep? Yes. By the time they were dropping the Quant test, there were more kids who had participated in prep programs then had not.

The reality is that parents who are very invested in their kids attending TJ will look at what seems to work and replicate that. Prep worked, so you saw that practice grow. The prep now is shifting from the Quant test and to essay prep, people are discussing it and the prep programs, like Currie, are more focused on the writing portion in their write ups. If moving schools seems to work I would guess that you will see more families do that. If you can afford the cost of the prep programs, and they do run in the 10,000-20,000 range for 7th and 8th grade, then you can rent a cheap apartment and drive your kid to school for a year or two.

The kids whose parents are looking to game the system are not the majority of the school but they are a significant percentage of the school. I am sure it sucks for the kids who didn’t go to the prep schools or look to game the system but it doesn’t change the fact that it did happen and is continuing to happen today.

You said prep was “required.” It was not. Choose your words more carefully rather than buying into the TJ bashing.

I did not post that prep was required. This is an anonymous board, people with different opinions are going to post and quote posts. Don't assume that you are talking to the same person because you are not.

There are kids who prepped and there are kids who did not. There seem to be folks on both side of the debate that are 100% stuck on one particular line and unable to see the middle ground. There are a few posters who keep screaming that every kid prepped, and that is BS. There are a few posters who claim no one prepped and that there was no cheating on the Quant test, and that is BS. There is plenty of evidence that there are kids who prepped, and that the number of prepped kids increased as people saw that it worked, and that there are prep schools that had test banks that provided an advantage to kids who attended the prep programs. There are also kids who were accepted into TJ who did not attend those prep programs and who did not have advanced access to the tests.

Also, saying that kids prepped and that some used test banks is not bashing TJ. I taught at the University level for 10 years. The Greek Houses had test banks that their members studied out of, it is common knowledge. I enjoyed screwing with those kids because I knew it was happening. It is a fact that test banks exist at many schools, regardless of the level so HS and College. The test administrators for TJ should have been aware of that and adjusted the test just like I did when I taught. There were Professors who didn't adjust their tests and were, essentially, fine with the knowledge that students were cheating in their classes. TJ decided to get rid of the test instead of taking the time to adjust the test. I don't agree with that, I think it is lazy.

Saying that the admissions practices for TJ need to shift is not bashing TJ. It is saying that I think that TJ should reflect the County it is based in. I like the MS distribution of seats. I like that the application no longer takes into consideration extra activities outside of school opportunities available to all kids. I would be fine with letters of recommendations and a test that was re-written every year to avoid the issues with cheating. I think that requirements could be shifted to require honors classes or AAP classes in all core classes, geometry by the end of 8th grade, and a higher GPA.

That is not bashing TJ but wanting to have a program that is accessible to more students and were kids have a chance to participate across the County.

TJ is a regional Governor's School, not a county public works program.

Does every other county that participates in TJ now make seats available on the same basis as FCPS does now, with middle school set-asides?

No one objects when a few schools like Westfield, Hayfield, and South County tend to dominate in athletics, but somehow it's "unfair" and has to be corrected if some middle schools have stronger kids academically.

DP. Gonna address a couple of issues here.

1) Yes, every other county's middle schools are subject to the 1.5% allocation. That's how there are so many students who are attending TJ from Prince William County now. The number used to be in the 10-20s year over year, and now it's closer to 60-70.

2) It's not "unfair" that some middle schools have stronger kids academically. That's the nature of life when you have AAP offerings and centers and magnet programs and the like - and even moreso when you have disparate resources in different areas of the county. It is problematic when you have schools that literally send no students to the county's flagship school for decades - not the least of which is the fact that striving for that flagship school ceases to become part of the culture of that school.

3) Carson, Rocky Run, and Longfellow are still going to send huge numbers of kids to TJ every year - far more than other, less well-represented schools. And they should - they have a larger number of stronger kids. The kids from those schools who are qualified for TJ will be exposed to a much more diverse environment than they would have been regardless of whether or not they get in, because TJ will look a little more like their base school than it used to. Which, in turn, will be better for their overall education.

Is this true about PW county? Surprising because those students struggle the most at TJ. They would do better at their base.

It is true. Every middle school in PW has allocated seats, but many of them do not fill their allocation and, mainly because of distance, these are the students most likely to return to base during the freshmen year.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have a child at poorly performing MS which, prior to the admission policy change, typically did not have any students admitted to TJ. DC is truly a brilliant and hardworking kid - the top student in honors geometry (near perfect average), acing the rest of their all honors courses, all advanced pass or perfect SOL scores, etc. DC is white and we do not qualify for free/reduced priced meals.

I'm curious to know what the admittance pool looks like at a school like ours? Do we have a shot or are the spots typically offered to high performing students with one or more "experience factors"?

I hope to keep the conversation civil and am genuinely asking out of curiosity. TIA!

One from ours was such an outlier. Real genius even. Don't think they would've stood a chance with the old system though since their family is low-income and wouldn't even consider prep classes that were required to be competitive then.

Prep was never necessary. My two kids and many others did no prep. Stop with those lies.

OP, your kid should do well coming from a low performing school. It’s the kids like yours at high performing schools that are getting rejected.

It is not a lie that kids prepped. Prep programs posted the names of kids who were accepted into TJ and similar schools. And they posted them for many years, you used to be able to look at the roster for many years back.

Were there kids who were accepted who did not prep? Yes. Was there a large percentage of kids who did prep? Yes. By the time they were dropping the Quant test, there were more kids who had participated in prep programs then had not.

The reality is that parents who are very invested in their kids attending TJ will look at what seems to work and replicate that. Prep worked, so you saw that practice grow. The prep now is shifting from the Quant test and to essay prep, people are discussing it and the prep programs, like Currie, are more focused on the writing portion in their write ups. If moving schools seems to work I would guess that you will see more families do that. If you can afford the cost of the prep programs, and they do run in the 10,000-20,000 range for 7th and 8th grade, then you can rent a cheap apartment and drive your kid to school for a year or two.

The kids whose parents are looking to game the system are not the majority of the school but they are a significant percentage of the school. I am sure it sucks for the kids who didn’t go to the prep schools or look to game the system but it doesn’t change the fact that it did happen and is continuing to happen today.

You said prep was “required.” It was not. Choose your words more carefully rather than buying into the TJ bashing.

A different poster said prep was required to be competitive which isn't the same thing. Let's face most kids don't get in these days without prep.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have a child at poorly performing MS which, prior to the admission policy change, typically did not have any students admitted to TJ. DC is truly a brilliant and hardworking kid - the top student in honors geometry (near perfect average), acing the rest of their all honors courses, all advanced pass or perfect SOL scores, etc. DC is white and we do not qualify for free/reduced priced meals.

I'm curious to know what the admittance pool looks like at a school like ours? Do we have a shot or are the spots typically offered to high performing students with one or more "experience factors"?

I hope to keep the conversation civil and am genuinely asking out of curiosity. TIA!

One from ours was such an outlier. Real genius even. Don't think they would've stood a chance with the old system though since their family is low-income and wouldn't even consider prep classes that were required to be competitive then.

Prep was never necessary. My two kids and many others did no prep. Stop with those lies.

OP, your kid should do well coming from a low performing school. It’s the kids like yours at high performing schools that are getting rejected.

It is not a lie that kids prepped. Prep programs posted the names of kids who were accepted into TJ and similar schools. And they posted them for many years, you used to be able to look at the roster for many years back.

Were there kids who were accepted who did not prep? Yes. Was there a large percentage of kids who did prep? Yes. By the time they were dropping the Quant test, there were more kids who had participated in prep programs then had not.

The reality is that parents who are very invested in their kids attending TJ will look at what seems to work and replicate that. Prep worked, so you saw that practice grow. The prep now is shifting from the Quant test and to essay prep, people are discussing it and the prep programs, like Currie, are more focused on the writing portion in their write ups. If moving schools seems to work I would guess that you will see more families do that. If you can afford the cost of the prep programs, and they do run in the 10,000-20,000 range for 7th and 8th grade, then you can rent a cheap apartment and drive your kid to school for a year or two.

The kids whose parents are looking to game the system are not the majority of the school but they are a significant percentage of the school. I am sure it sucks for the kids who didn’t go to the prep schools or look to game the system but it doesn’t change the fact that it did happen and is continuing to happen today.

You said prep was “required.” It was not. Choose your words more carefully rather than buying into the TJ bashing.

I did not post that prep was required. This is an anonymous board, people with different opinions are going to post and quote posts. Don't assume that you are talking to the same person because you are not.

There are kids who prepped and there are kids who did not. There seem to be folks on both side of the debate that are 100% stuck on one particular line and unable to see the middle ground. There are a few posters who keep screaming that every kid prepped, and that is BS. There are a few posters who claim no one prepped and that there was no cheating on the Quant test, and that is BS. There is plenty of evidence that there are kids who prepped, and that the number of prepped kids increased as people saw that it worked, and that there are prep schools that had test banks that provided an advantage to kids who attended the prep programs. There are also kids who were accepted into TJ who did not attend those prep programs and who did not have advanced access to the tests.

Also, saying that kids prepped and that some used test banks is not bashing TJ. I taught at the University level for 10 years. The Greek Houses had test banks that their members studied out of, it is common knowledge. I enjoyed screwing with those kids because I knew it was happening. It is a fact that test banks exist at many schools, regardless of the level so HS and College. The test administrators for TJ should have been aware of that and adjusted the test just like I did when I taught. There were Professors who didn't adjust their tests and were, essentially, fine with the knowledge that students were cheating in their classes. TJ decided to get rid of the test instead of taking the time to adjust the test. I don't agree with that, I think it is lazy.

Saying that the admissions practices for TJ need to shift is not bashing TJ. It is saying that I think that TJ should reflect the County it is based in. I like the MS distribution of seats. I like that the application no longer takes into consideration extra activities outside of school opportunities available to all kids. I would be fine with letters of recommendations and a test that was re-written every year to avoid the issues with cheating. I think that requirements could be shifted to require honors classes or AAP classes in all core classes, geometry by the end of 8th grade, and a higher GPA.

That is not bashing TJ but wanting to have a program that is accessible to more students and were kids have a chance to participate across the County.

TJ is a regional Governor's School, not a county public works program.

Does every other county that participates in TJ now make seats available on the same basis as FCPS does now, with middle school set-asides?

No one objects when a few schools like Westfield, Hayfield, and South County tend to dominate in athletics, but somehow it's "unfair" and has to be corrected if some middle schools have stronger kids academically.

DP. Gonna address a couple of issues here.

1) Yes, every other county's middle schools are subject to the 1.5% allocation. That's how there are so many students who are attending TJ from Prince William County now. The number used to be in the 10-20s year over year, and now it's closer to 60-70.

2) It's not "unfair" that some middle schools have stronger kids academically. That's the nature of life when you have AAP offerings and centers and magnet programs and the like - and even moreso when you have disparate resources in different areas of the county. It is problematic when you have schools that literally send no students to the county's flagship school for decades - not the least of which is the fact that striving for that flagship school ceases to become part of the culture of that school.

3) Carson, Rocky Run, and Longfellow are still going to send huge numbers of kids to TJ every year - far more than other, less well-represented schools. And they should - they have a larger number of stronger kids. The kids from those schools who are qualified for TJ will be exposed to a much more diverse environment than they would have been regardless of whether or not they get in, because TJ will look a little more like their base school than it used to. Which, in turn, will be better for their overall education.

The thing is they're not stronger academically just have had more outside enrichment which is a different thing.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have a child at poorly performing MS which, prior to the admission policy change, typically did not have any students admitted to TJ. DC is truly a brilliant and hardworking kid - the top student in honors geometry (near perfect average), acing the rest of their all honors courses, all advanced pass or perfect SOL scores, etc. DC is white and we do not qualify for free/reduced priced meals.

I'm curious to know what the admittance pool looks like at a school like ours? Do we have a shot or are the spots typically offered to high performing students with one or more "experience factors"?

I hope to keep the conversation civil and am genuinely asking out of curiosity. TIA!

One from ours was such an outlier. Real genius even. Don't think they would've stood a chance with the old system though since their family is low-income and wouldn't even consider prep classes that were required to be competitive then.

Prep was never necessary. My two kids and many others did no prep. Stop with those lies.

OP, your kid should do well coming from a low performing school. It’s the kids like yours at high performing schools that are getting rejected.

It is not a lie that kids prepped. Prep programs posted the names of kids who were accepted into TJ and similar schools. And they posted them for many years, you used to be able to look at the roster for many years back.

Were there kids who were accepted who did not prep? Yes. Was there a large percentage of kids who did prep? Yes. By the time they were dropping the Quant test, there were more kids who had participated in prep programs then had not.

The reality is that parents who are very invested in their kids attending TJ will look at what seems to work and replicate that. Prep worked, so you saw that practice grow. The prep now is shifting from the Quant test and to essay prep, people are discussing it and the prep programs, like Currie, are more focused on the writing portion in their write ups. If moving schools seems to work I would guess that you will see more families do that. If you can afford the cost of the prep programs, and they do run in the 10,000-20,000 range for 7th and 8th grade, then you can rent a cheap apartment and drive your kid to school for a year or two.

The kids whose parents are looking to game the system are not the majority of the school but they are a significant percentage of the school. I am sure it sucks for the kids who didn’t go to the prep schools or look to game the system but it doesn’t change the fact that it did happen and is continuing to happen today.

You said prep was “required.” It was not. Choose your words more carefully rather than buying into the TJ bashing.

I did not post that prep was required. This is an anonymous board, people with different opinions are going to post and quote posts. Don't assume that you are talking to the same person because you are not.

There are kids who prepped and there are kids who did not. There seem to be folks on both side of the debate that are 100% stuck on one particular line and unable to see the middle ground. There are a few posters who keep screaming that every kid prepped, and that is BS. There are a few posters who claim no one prepped and that there was no cheating on the Quant test, and that is BS. There is plenty of evidence that there are kids who prepped, and that the number of prepped kids increased as people saw that it worked, and that there are prep schools that had test banks that provided an advantage to kids who attended the prep programs. There are also kids who were accepted into TJ who did not attend those prep programs and who did not have advanced access to the tests.

Also, saying that kids prepped and that some used test banks is not bashing TJ. I taught at the University level for 10 years. The Greek Houses had test banks that their members studied out of, it is common knowledge. I enjoyed screwing with those kids because I knew it was happening. It is a fact that test banks exist at many schools, regardless of the level so HS and College. The test administrators for TJ should have been aware of that and adjusted the test just like I did when I taught. There were Professors who didn't adjust their tests and were, essentially, fine with the knowledge that students were cheating in their classes. TJ decided to get rid of the test instead of taking the time to adjust the test. I don't agree with that, I think it is lazy.

Saying that the admissions practices for TJ need to shift is not bashing TJ. It is saying that I think that TJ should reflect the County it is based in. I like the MS distribution of seats. I like that the application no longer takes into consideration extra activities outside of school opportunities available to all kids. I would be fine with letters of recommendations and a test that was re-written every year to avoid the issues with cheating. I think that requirements could be shifted to require honors classes or AAP classes in all core classes, geometry by the end of 8th grade, and a higher GPA.

That is not bashing TJ but wanting to have a program that is accessible to more students and were kids have a chance to participate across the County.

TJ is a regional Governor's School, not a county public works program.

Does every other county that participates in TJ now make seats available on the same basis as FCPS does now, with middle school set-asides?

No one objects when a few schools like Westfield, Hayfield, and South County tend to dominate in athletics, but somehow it's "unfair" and has to be corrected if some middle schools have stronger kids academically.

DP. Gonna address a couple of issues here.

1) Yes, every other county's middle schools are subject to the 1.5% allocation. That's how there are so many students who are attending TJ from Prince William County now. The number used to be in the 10-20s year over year, and now it's closer to 60-70.

2) It's not "unfair" that some middle schools have stronger kids academically. That's the nature of life when you have AAP offerings and centers and magnet programs and the like - and even moreso when you have disparate resources in different areas of the county. It is problematic when you have schools that literally send no students to the county's flagship school for decades - not the least of which is the fact that striving for that flagship school ceases to become part of the culture of that school.

3) Carson, Rocky Run, and Longfellow are still going to send huge numbers of kids to TJ every year - far more than other, less well-represented schools. And they should - they have a larger number of stronger kids. The kids from those schools who are qualified for TJ will be exposed to a much more diverse environment than they would have been regardless of whether or not they get in, because TJ will look a little more like their base school than it used to. Which, in turn, will be better for their overall education.

The thing is they're not stronger academically just have had more outside enrichment which is a different thing.

You should just go wander the halls of Glasgow, Hayfield, Holmes, Key, Poe, and Whitman and tap random kids for TJ. You never know who might be the diamond in the rough, right?