how many of us are secretly conflicted about this ruling?

[Anonymous]

Abortion is a last resort.
Like almost everything else good secure cheap health care, wrap around health, social and educational support for children and secure housing would make it a less used resort.
I think we should hold republican feet to the fire and make them follow up with their “baby concern” and start taking care of real babies and children.

[Anonymous]

I don't understand why we can't go for an European abortion approach, which is legal first trimester and banned after that. It bothers me that the pro choice people always bitterly resisted any compromises on abortion. I remember how they defeated bans on late term abortion. But by refusing any compromise they also gave the pro life people a massive impetus to defeat abortion rights entirely.

Most people want some level of abortion rights and most also want restrictions on abortion, which shows that the majority in the US wants the European style abortion approach. I actually privately think that by moving abortion to the legislature it makes it easier in the long run to get the European compromise consensus here in the US.

Ultimately, because abortion is a hugely moral issue for so many people, codifying it as a constitutional right on dubious grounds like Roe did was never going to work out well. But pushing it back to the states does allow us to have the national conversation over abortion and that it is a very complicated subject that does not deserve the all or nothing attitudes of both the extreme pro choice and pro life people, and that can be worthwhile.

[Anonymous]

Yeah no.
When I hear people speak as you have I realize they are really reeeeeeally bad at math. And science.
There are 330,000,000 people in this country.
92% of that 800,000 are abortions happening by/or before week 12.
That’s a fetus the size of a plum. It doesn’t have eyes. It isn’t conscious yet, because it’s brain hasn’t developed.
There are a percentage of women who can’t access abortion during that period. They live in states that have closed clinics and require waiting periods.
We can thank republicans for a percentage of those later abortions.
1.3% of abortions occur in the third trimester.
Those are wanted pregnancies. These are tragedies, and often very dangerous/deadly for the mother.
Is there possibly a irresponsible whore in that 1.3 %? sure.
That’s about 10,000 procedures.
So you are comfortable with taking away bodily autonomy for all women, because …. there might be a whore getting an abortion late in her pregnancy.
Don’t forget the later the abortion, the more dangerous for the mother and the more expensive. Maybe 3 doctors in the county perform them. It’s 10,000- 25,000 dollars.
Those are some really wealthy whores.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I don't understand why we can't go for an European abortion approach, which is legal first trimester and banned after that. It bothers me that the pro choice people always bitterly resisted any compromises on abortion. I remember how they defeated bans on late term abortion. But by refusing any compromise they also gave the pro life people a massive impetus to defeat abortion rights entirely.

Most people want some level of abortion rights and most also want restrictions on abortion, which shows that the majority in the US wants the European style abortion approach. I actually privately think that by moving abortion to the legislature it makes it easier in the long run to get the European compromise consensus here in the US.

Ultimately, because abortion is a hugely moral issue for so many people, codifying it as a constitutional right on dubious grounds like Roe did was never going to work out well. But pushing it back to the states does allow us to have the national conversation over abortion and that it is a very complicated subject that does not deserve the all or nothing attitudes of both the extreme pro choice and pro life people, and that can be worthwhile.

Is it banned with no carve out for the life of the mother, or if carrying to term puts her at great risk? What about non-viable fetuses?

In the US, >79% of abortions are performed at ≤9 weeks’ gestation, and nearly all (~93%) are performed at ≤13 weeks’ gestation. Many of those performed later are for reason of serious risk to the mother or serious problems in the fetus, including non-viability. This situation is even more common, the further you go in gestational age.

[Anonymous]

No, I am full of rage. Rate that women are right now being denied a health care service that should be legal. Rage at those who enabled this atrocity to happen and those who will do nothing to overturn it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't understand why we can't go for an European abortion approach, which is legal first trimester and banned after that. It bothers me that the pro choice people always bitterly resisted any compromises on abortion. I remember how they defeated bans on late term abortion. But by refusing any compromise they also gave the pro life people a massive impetus to defeat abortion rights entirely.

Most people want some level of abortion rights and most also want restrictions on abortion, which shows that the majority in the US wants the European style abortion approach. I actually privately think that by moving abortion to the legislature it makes it easier in the long run to get the European compromise consensus here in the US.

Ultimately, because abortion is a hugely moral issue for so many people, codifying it as a constitutional right on dubious grounds like Roe did was never going to work out well. But pushing it back to the states does allow us to have the national conversation over abortion and that it is a very complicated subject that does not deserve the all or nothing attitudes of both the extreme pro choice and pro life people, and that can be worthwhile.

Is it banned with no carve out for the life of the mother, or if carrying to term puts her at great risk? What about non-viable fetuses?

In the US, >79% of abortions are performed at ≤9 weeks’ gestation, and nearly all (~93%) are performed at ≤13 weeks’ gestation. Many of those performed later are for reason of serious risk to the mother or serious problems in the fetus, including non-viability. This situation is even more common, the further you go in gestational age.

There are exemptions made for the issues you highlighted, but the point remains that there are still restrictions and bans on later term abortions. The US abortion laws are/were among the most permissive in the world. When people talk about women's rights to abortion, it's worth keeping in mind that even those rights are not as extensive in most European countries and are certainly restricted. It's as low as 12 weeks in some countries.

For many, it's not the question of how many late term abortions there are in practice, it's the morality of it. The pro choice activists in the US always hurt their causes by insisting on an all or nothing approach to abortion rights rather than allowing the European approach compromise and accepting legal restrictions on later term abortion, which as polling goes, is something most Americans would gladly live with because there is support for both abortion and restriction on abortion too.

I do think that by refusing any compromise on abortion, the pro choice activists gave the pro life activists a real moral impetus to exist. And here we are.

[Anonymous]

Not me.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't understand why we can't go for an European abortion approach, which is legal first trimester and banned after that. It bothers me that the pro choice people always bitterly resisted any compromises on abortion. I remember how they defeated bans on late term abortion. But by refusing any compromise they also gave the pro life people a massive impetus to defeat abortion rights entirely.

Most people want some level of abortion rights and most also want restrictions on abortion, which shows that the majority in the US wants the European style abortion approach. I actually privately think that by moving abortion to the legislature it makes it easier in the long run to get the European compromise consensus here in the US.

Ultimately, because abortion is a hugely moral issue for so many people, codifying it as a constitutional right on dubious grounds like Roe did was never going to work out well. But pushing it back to the states does allow us to have the national conversation over abortion and that it is a very complicated subject that does not deserve the all or nothing attitudes of both the extreme pro choice and pro life people, and that can be worthwhile.

Is it banned with no carve out for the life of the mother, or if carrying to term puts her at great risk? What about non-viable fetuses?

In the US, >79% of abortions are performed at ≤9 weeks’ gestation, and nearly all (~93%) are performed at ≤13 weeks’ gestation. Many of those performed later are for reason of serious risk to the mother or serious problems in the fetus, including non-viability. This situation is even more common, the further you go in gestational age.

There are exemptions made for the issues you highlighted, but the point remains that there are still restrictions and bans on later term abortions. The US abortion laws are/were among the most permissive in the world. When people talk about women's rights to abortion, it's worth keeping in mind that even those rights are not as extensive in most European countries and are certainly restricted. It's as low as 12 weeks in some countries.

For many, it's not the question of how many late term abortions there are in practice, it's the morality of it. The pro choice activists in the US always hurt their causes by insisting on an all or nothing approach to abortion rights rather than allowing the European approach compromise and accepting legal restrictions on later term abortion, which as polling goes, is something most Americans would gladly live with because there is support for both abortion and restriction on abortion too.

I do think that by refusing any compromise on abortion, the pro choice activists gave the pro life activists a real moral impetus to exist. And here we are.

You know why pro choice activists were resistant, right?

You are comparing the current US with countries who have had relatively stable laws as well as the socially based services which made those laws feasible. Activists were pretty sure that an inch would turn into a mile. And yeah, the very same day that Hobbs decision was released, Clarence Thomas called the shot on birth control as well.

You really "don't understand" the difference? My gosh, you sea lion, you must be absolutely discombobulated by the Clarence Thomas statement. Who could have seen that, gosh golly you guys, wink wink.

[Anonymous]

The problem with blanket data is the fact that it doesn’t specify the actual, human circumstance under which each termination occurred. Most of these were likely early, or for medical reasons. I doubt the bulk of them were some 19-year-olds who didn’t notice they were missing periods until week 28. Early pregnancies tend to be fragile anyway, and the likelihood that half of those would’ve ended in miscarriage is pretty high. So no, I don’t think it’s up to a bunch of government officials to decide. I think it’s between the women and their doctors, maybe their trusted clergy members if they want to go that route. And I really really don’t like feeling like a second-class citizen. Before the actual ruling, I had compassion for all the people it would affect, but it has hit me in a completely unexpected, personal way. Fk SCOTUS so hard.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't understand why we can't go for an European abortion approach, which is legal first trimester and banned after that. It bothers me that the pro choice people always bitterly resisted any compromises on abortion. I remember how they defeated bans on late term abortion. But by refusing any compromise they also gave the pro life people a massive impetus to defeat abortion rights entirely.

Most people want some level of abortion rights and most also want restrictions on abortion, which shows that the majority in the US wants the European style abortion approach. I actually privately think that by moving abortion to the legislature it makes it easier in the long run to get the European compromise consensus here in the US.

Ultimately, because abortion is a hugely moral issue for so many people, codifying it as a constitutional right on dubious grounds like Roe did was never going to work out well. But pushing it back to the states does allow us to have the national conversation over abortion and that it is a very complicated subject that does not deserve the all or nothing attitudes of both the extreme pro choice and pro life people, and that can be worthwhile.

Is it banned with no carve out for the life of the mother, or if carrying to term puts her at great risk? What about non-viable fetuses?

In the US, >79% of abortions are performed at ≤9 weeks’ gestation, and nearly all (~93%) are performed at ≤13 weeks’ gestation. Many of those performed later are for reason of serious risk to the mother or serious problems in the fetus, including non-viability. This situation is even more common, the further you go in gestational age.

There are exemptions made for the issues you highlighted, but the point remains that there are still restrictions and bans on later term abortions. The US abortion laws are/were among the most permissive in the world. When people talk about women's rights to abortion, it's worth keeping in mind that even those rights are not as extensive in most European countries and are certainly restricted. It's as low as 12 weeks in some countries.

For many, it's not the question of how many late term abortions there are in practice, it's the morality of it. The pro choice activists in the US always hurt their causes by insisting on an all or nothing approach to abortion rights rather than allowing the European approach compromise and accepting legal restrictions on later term abortion, which as polling goes, is something most Americans would gladly live with because there is support for both abortion and restriction on abortion too.

I do think that by refusing any compromise on abortion, the pro choice activists gave the pro life activists a real moral impetus to exist. And here we are.

Canada, a developed industrialized nation similar to the U.S., doesn’t even have any law regulating abortion, because it shouldn’t be a political decision.

[Anonymous]

I am.

I support having abortion being available, safe, and legal, but I do not feel particularly strongly about this. Abortion is pretty low on the list of issues that I care about as a voter.

I also think that Roe vs. Wade was wrongly decided, as the Constitutional basis for abortion-as-a-right is effectively zero.

But I also think that the Supreme Court has an obligation to defer to precedent in most cases.

So, yes I am conflicted.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I'm sure I'll be crucified for posting this because emotions are running very high.
Life-long democratic woman (voted Obama x 2, Hilary, Biden and about a zillion other demographic and very progressive candidates over the years).
Very pro-gay rights, pro-strict gun control, etc. Quietly live in NW DC and indistinguishable from a zillion other progressive DC residents.

But when it comes down to it I feel fundamentally very, very conflicted. I am repulsed by the Republican party and I recoil at their hypocrisy, their treatment of the poor, minorities, women etc.
and yet I have long been deeply grieved by the issue of abortion. The fact the United States aborted 600,000 to 800,000 babies last year (I just googled for this number--it's not something I've ever looked up before) is very troubling to me.
I've never really reconciled the abortion issue in my brain. I've chosen to completely ignore it in the voting booth because I feel that there are scores of more important issues out there. I guess when the rubber hits-the-road I support abortion as a necessary evil and an important healthcare option in cases of health of mother, baby, and likely incest, rape but I'm not sure how we as a country get from this to so many terminations per year. So with this ruling I am feeling all sorts of conflicting thoughts. Mostly just sadness. Anyone else with me? I know we are out there because I've had this conversation with several very, very close, very safe friends who feel similarly since this happened yesterday.

A clump of fetal tissue isn’t a baby.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I am.

I support having abortion being available, safe, and legal, but I do not feel particularly strongly about this. Abortion is pretty low on the list of issues that I care about as a voter.

I also think that Roe vs. Wade was wrongly decided, as the Constitutional basis for abortion-as-a-right is effectively zero.

But I also think that the Supreme Court has an obligation to defer to precedent in most cases.

So, yes I am conflicted.

So agency over your decisionmaking on medical procedures isn’t covered in any way by the Constitution. Do you have a right to travel? Right to marriage? Try reading the Ninth Amendment.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't understand why we can't go for an European abortion approach, which is legal first trimester and banned after that. It bothers me that the pro choice people always bitterly resisted any compromises on abortion. I remember how they defeated bans on late term abortion. But by refusing any compromise they also gave the pro life people a massive impetus to defeat abortion rights entirely.

Most people want some level of abortion rights and most also want restrictions on abortion, which shows that the majority in the US wants the European style abortion approach. I actually privately think that by moving abortion to the legislature it makes it easier in the long run to get the European compromise consensus here in the US.

Ultimately, because abortion is a hugely moral issue for so many people, codifying it as a constitutional right on dubious grounds like Roe did was never going to work out well. But pushing it back to the states does allow us to have the national conversation over abortion and that it is a very complicated subject that does not deserve the all or nothing attitudes of both the extreme pro choice and pro life people, and that can be worthwhile.

Is it banned with no carve out for the life of the mother, or if carrying to term puts her at great risk? What about non-viable fetuses?

In the US, >79% of abortions are performed at ≤9 weeks’ gestation, and nearly all (~93%) are performed at ≤13 weeks’ gestation. Many of those performed later are for reason of serious risk to the mother or serious problems in the fetus, including non-viability. This situation is even more common, the further you go in gestational age.

There are exemptions made for the issues you highlighted, but the point remains that there are still restrictions and bans on later term abortions. The US abortion laws are/were among the most permissive in the world. When people talk about women's rights to abortion, it's worth keeping in mind that even those rights are not as extensive in most European countries and are certainly restricted. It's as low as 12 weeks in some countries.

For many, it's not the question of how many late term abortions there are in practice, it's the morality of it. The pro choice activists in the US always hurt their causes by insisting on an all or nothing approach to abortion rights rather than allowing the European approach compromise and accepting legal restrictions on later term abortion, which as polling goes, is something most Americans would gladly live with because there is support for both abortion and restriction on abortion too.

I do think that by refusing any compromise on abortion, the pro choice activists gave the pro life activists a real moral impetus to exist. And here we are.

Canada, a developed industrialized nation similar to the U.S., doesn’t even have any law regulating abortion, because it shouldn’t be a political decision.

+1

It’s a medical decision.

Unless you let the religious nutters run wild.

[Anonymous]

European countries with more restrictive abortion laws also take sexuality, education, womens health and childbirth more seriously. Abortions are rarer in a decent society, and our society is not decent.