Personhood laws and IUDs

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So we are supposed to explain the finer points of hypothetical state level laws on contraception?

This isn't a hypothetical state law. The governor of Oklahoma is expected to sign legislation outlawing abortion at conception. What's so hard to understand?

Im not the one asking for clarity on how it works. Maybe review the legislation?

Dp- we don’t want people doing that. We don’t want people talking about that.
We don’t want women to notice we’re stripping them of their rights.

Well, I got curious and looked it up. There is no ban on contraceptives in Oklahoma. The abortion bill specifically excludes contraception and emergency contraception, which is a very early abortion. It also does not make abortion a criminal or civil offense, it just provides standing if someone chooses to sue you for it. This is not legal advice, and I recommend consulting your attorney.

So it's not as bad as I thought, but still pretty bad.

[Anonymous]

I can see a federal law protecting contraception, including IUDs and plan B pills.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So we are supposed to explain the finer points of hypothetical state level laws on contraception?

This isn't a hypothetical state law. The governor of Oklahoma is expected to sign legislation outlawing abortion at conception. What's so hard to understand?

Im not the one asking for clarity on how it works. Maybe review the legislation?

Dp- we don’t want people doing that. We don’t want people talking about that.
We don’t want women to notice we’re stripping them of their rights.

Well, I got curious and looked it up. There is no ban on contraceptives in Oklahoma. The abortion bill specifically excludes contraception and emergency contraception, which is a very early abortion. It also does not make abortion a criminal or civil offense, it just provides standing if someone chooses to sue you for it. This is not legal advice, and I recommend consulting your attorney.

So an abusive husband/partner might sue his wife/partner?

Has this happened yet in Texas? And how would the police prove that a woman has obtained an abortion? I can't see how this law would actually work in practice unless someone is actually going after an abortion provider.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There is already a 200 page thread discussing this. IUDs and Plan B pills could both be criminalized under the GOP plan.

Link please?

https://www.dcurbanmom.com/jforum/posts/list/1055327.page

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So we are supposed to explain the finer points of hypothetical state level laws on contraception?

This isn't a hypothetical state law. The governor of Oklahoma is expected to sign legislation outlawing abortion at conception. What's so hard to understand?

Im not the one asking for clarity on how it works. Maybe review the legislation?

Dp- we don’t want people doing that. We don’t want people talking about that.
We don’t want women to notice we’re stripping them of their rights.

Well, I got curious and looked it up. There is no ban on contraceptives in Oklahoma. The abortion bill specifically excludes contraception and emergency contraception, which is a very early abortion. It also does not make abortion a criminal or civil offense, it just provides standing if someone chooses to sue you for it. This is not legal advice, and I recommend consulting your attorney.

So an abusive husband/partner might sue his wife/partner?

Has this happened yet in Texas? And how would the police prove that a woman has obtained an abortion? I can't see how this law would actually work in practice unless someone is actually going after an abortion provider.

Yeah, this seems like symbolic legislation more than anything. A smart woman would just not tell anyone, book a "work trip," and go out of state for an abortion. Done and done.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So we are supposed to explain the finer points of hypothetical state level laws on contraception?

This isn't a hypothetical state law. The governor of Oklahoma is expected to sign legislation outlawing abortion at conception. What's so hard to understand?

Im not the one asking for clarity on how it works. Maybe review the legislation?

Dp- we don’t want people doing that. We don’t want people talking about that.
We don’t want women to notice we’re stripping them of their rights.

Well, I got curious and looked it up. There is no ban on contraceptives in Oklahoma. The abortion bill specifically excludes contraception and emergency contraception, which is a very early abortion. It also does not make abortion a criminal or civil offense, it just provides standing if someone chooses to sue you for it. This is not legal advice, and I recommend consulting your attorney.

So an abusive husband/partner might sue his wife/partner?

Has this happened yet in Texas? And how would the police prove that a woman has obtained an abortion? I can't see how this law would actually work in practice unless someone is actually going after an abortion provider.

Yeah, this seems like symbolic legislation more than anything. A smart woman would just not tell anyone, book a "work trip," and go out of state for an abortion. Done and done.

What happens if the state gets access to your browsing data? I'm not tech savvy myself, but was listening to an interview with an internet privacy expert/advocate and she was saying that law enforcement could flag women searching anything abortion related.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So we are supposed to explain the finer points of hypothetical state level laws on contraception?

This isn't a hypothetical state law. The governor of Oklahoma is expected to sign legislation outlawing abortion at conception. What's so hard to understand?

Im not the one asking for clarity on how it works. Maybe review the legislation?

Dp- we don’t want people doing that. We don’t want people talking about that.
We don’t want women to notice we’re stripping them of their rights.

Well, I got curious and looked it up. There is no ban on contraceptives in Oklahoma. The abortion bill specifically excludes contraception and emergency contraception, which is a very early abortion. It also does not make abortion a criminal or civil offense, it just provides standing if someone chooses to sue you for it. This is not legal advice, and I recommend consulting your attorney.

So an abusive husband/partner might sue his wife/partner?

Has this happened yet in Texas? And how would the police prove that a woman has obtained an abortion? I can't see how this law would actually work in practice unless someone is actually going after an abortion provider.

Yeah, this seems like symbolic legislation more than anything. A smart woman would just not tell anyone, book a "work trip," and go out of state for an abortion. Done and done.

What happens if the state gets access to your browsing data? I'm not tech savvy myself, but was listening to an interview with an internet privacy expert/advocate and she was saying that law enforcement could flag women searching anything abortion related.

Can states bring suits against citizens? An attorney would need to weigh in.

Looking at the law, it isnt clear why law enforcement would be involved in hunting candidates for civil litigation suits, if it is even a thing that states sue citizens for things like this.

It appears to me, a layman, to be a way for fathers to gain some control over a decision for when to abort. Otherwise, the bill would have an enforcement mechanism, and the only one is has is allowing people to sue women for abortions.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So we are supposed to explain the finer points of hypothetical state level laws on contraception?

This isn't a hypothetical state law. The governor of Oklahoma is expected to sign legislation outlawing abortion at conception. What's so hard to understand?

Im not the one asking for clarity on how it works. Maybe review the legislation?

Dp- we don’t want people doing that. We don’t want people talking about that.
We don’t want women to notice we’re stripping them of their rights.

Well, I got curious and looked it up. There is no ban on contraceptives in Oklahoma. The abortion bill specifically excludes contraception and emergency contraception, which is a very early abortion. It also does not make abortion a criminal or civil offense, it just provides standing if someone chooses to sue you for it. This is not legal advice, and I recommend consulting your attorney.

“it just provides standing if someone chooses to sue you….”. Holy moly the word “just” is doing a lot of work!

This law is even better than criminalization. A town only has a police force to catch criminals, but under the Oklahoma/Texas-style bans, every person in the entire town can police abortion.

Did someone overhear you advising your daughter about abortion? You can be sured for 10K by literally anyone.

Did your daughter’s abusive boyfriend hear about her pregnancy? He can sue her for 10K even if he’s not the Dad!

Did someone at school find out DD had an abortion? That person can sue her for 10K! In fact, if word gets out on the grapevine, every kid at school could sue her.

These civil penalty abortion-prohibition laws leverage an entire community to police women seeking abortion and bankrupt them and anyone who is helping the woman in any way.

They are a terrible off-ramp to Gilead. It’s so crazily authoritarian, I can’t even believe they’re passing, let alone likely to be upheld by SCOTUS because “the constitution doesn’t protect privacy and states should decide”

[Anonymous]

Please read this explainer on the civil suit abortion reatriction laws.

https://www.texasmonthly.com/news-politics/texas-abortion-law-explained/

Any person in the state could sue anyone for any participation in any part of the process of abortion.

Did your boss give you time off while you got your abortion?
Did an Uber driver drive you to the clinic?
Did your ISP provider give you access to find out abortion clinic hours?

All of them are vulnerable to suit by any Joe Blow on the street or your husband, or abusive ex or nosy neighbor, etc.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So we are supposed to explain the finer points of hypothetical state level laws on contraception?

This isn't a hypothetical state law. The governor of Oklahoma is expected to sign legislation outlawing abortion at conception. What's so hard to understand?

Im not the one asking for clarity on how it works. Maybe review the legislation?

Dp- we don’t want people doing that. We don’t want people talking about that.
We don’t want women to notice we’re stripping them of their rights.

Well, I got curious and looked it up. There is no ban on contraceptives in Oklahoma. The abortion bill specifically excludes contraception and emergency contraception, which is a very early abortion. It also does not make abortion a criminal or civil offense, it just provides standing if someone chooses to sue you for it. This is not legal advice, and I recommend consulting your attorney.

So an abusive husband/partner might sue his wife/partner?

Has this happened yet in Texas? And how would the police prove that a woman has obtained an abortion? I can't see how this law would actually work in practice unless someone is actually going after an abortion provider.

Yeah, this seems like symbolic legislation more than anything. A smart woman would just not tell anyone, book a "work trip," and go out of state for an abortion. Done and done.

What happens if the state gets access to your browsing data? I'm not tech savvy myself, but was listening to an interview with an internet privacy expert/advocate and she was saying that law enforcement could flag women searching anything abortion related.

Can states bring suits against citizens? An attorney would need to weigh in.

Looking at the law, it isnt clear why law enforcement would be involved in hunting candidates for civil litigation suits, if it is even a thing that states sue citizens for things like this.

It appears to me, a layman, to be a way for fathers to gain some control over a decision for when to abort. Otherwise, the bill would have an enforcement mechanism, and the only one is has is allowing people to sue women for abortions.

Honestly, right now any one can buy your browsing history. Police are already buying this data - it’s not expensive - to aid in police investigations of all kinds of other offensive.


But wahy worry about whether the police will do it? They won’t have to - the same pro-lifers who were formerly protesting outside abortion clinics and recording license plate numbers of arriving patients and harrassing them are now going to be able to buy browsing history and sue abortion patients.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Please read this explainer on the civil suit abortion reatriction laws.

https://www.texasmonthly.com/news-politics/texas-abortion-law-explained/

Any person in the state could sue anyone for any participation in any part of the process of abortion.

Did your boss give you time off while you got your abortion?
Did an Uber driver drive you to the clinic?
Did your ISP provider give you access to find out abortion clinic hours?

All of them are vulnerable to suit by any Joe Blow on the street or your husband, or abusive ex or nosy neighbor, etc.

Again, I am not an attorney. But we have loads of frivilous lawsuits and people can and do sue for crazy things already. I dont see this as a huge expansion of the law.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So we are supposed to explain the finer points of hypothetical state level laws on contraception?

This isn't a hypothetical state law. The governor of Oklahoma is expected to sign legislation outlawing abortion at conception. What's so hard to understand?

Im not the one asking for clarity on how it works. Maybe review the legislation?

Dp- we don’t want people doing that. We don’t want people talking about that.
We don’t want women to notice we’re stripping them of their rights.

It's a hypothetical question, but how are these laws going to be enforced? Or is the plan just to frighten women into submission?

Doctors will just refuse care because they're afraid of losing their license/going to jail. They will probably be a lot of doctors who leave Oklahoma If they can

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So we are supposed to explain the finer points of hypothetical state level laws on contraception?

This isn't a hypothetical state law. The governor of Oklahoma is expected to sign legislation outlawing abortion at conception. What's so hard to understand?

Im not the one asking for clarity on how it works. Maybe review the legislation?

Dp- we don’t want people doing that. We don’t want people talking about that.
We don’t want women to notice we’re stripping them of their rights.

Well, I got curious and looked it up. There is no ban on contraceptives in Oklahoma. The abortion bill specifically excludes contraception and emergency contraception, which is a very early abortion. It also does not make abortion a criminal or civil offense, it just provides standing if someone chooses to sue you for it. This is not legal advice, and I recommend consulting your attorney.

So an abusive husband/partner might sue his wife/partner?

Has this happened yet in Texas? And how would the police prove that a woman has obtained an abortion? I can't see how this law would actually work in practice unless someone is actually going after an abortion provider.

Yeah, this seems like symbolic legislation more than anything. A smart woman would just not tell anyone, book a "work trip," and go out of state for an abortion. Done and done.

Yes because every woman who is dealing with a crisis pregnancy has that kind of money to travel out of state for an abortion. Very universal experience. /Sarcasm

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So we are supposed to explain the finer points of hypothetical state level laws on contraception?

This isn't a hypothetical state law. The governor of Oklahoma is expected to sign legislation outlawing abortion at conception. What's so hard to understand?

Im not the one asking for clarity on how it works. Maybe review the legislation?

Dp- we don’t want people doing that. We don’t want people talking about that.
We don’t want women to notice we’re stripping them of their rights.

Well, I got curious and looked it up. There is no ban on contraceptives in Oklahoma. The abortion bill specifically excludes contraception and emergency contraception, which is a very early abortion. It also does not make abortion a criminal or civil offense, it just provides standing if someone chooses to sue you for it. This is not legal advice, and I recommend consulting your attorney.

So an abusive husband/partner might sue his wife/partner?

Has this happened yet in Texas? And how would the police prove that a woman has obtained an abortion? I can't see how this law would actually work in practice unless someone is actually going after an abortion provider.

Did you hear about how Lizelle Herara was thrown in jail for a suspected abortion?



https://prismreports.org/2022/04/21/misinformation-fueled-lizelle-herrera-criminalization-abortion/

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So we are supposed to explain the finer points of hypothetical state level laws on contraception?

This isn't a hypothetical state law. The governor of Oklahoma is expected to sign legislation outlawing abortion at conception. What's so hard to understand?

Im not the one asking for clarity on how it works. Maybe review the legislation?

Dp- we don’t want people doing that. We don’t want people talking about that.
We don’t want women to notice we’re stripping them of their rights.

It's a hypothetical question, but how are these laws going to be enforced? Or is the plan just to frighten women into submission?

Doctors will just refuse care because they're afraid of losing their license/going to jail. They will probably be a lot of doctors who leave Oklahoma If they can

Again, not an attorney. But I have trouble understanding a scenario in whixh anyone would go to jail for something that isnt a criminal offense. This bill is clear that it is not criminal.

But for liability reaaons, I imagine the clinics will close.