extra time on tests and applying to college

[Anonymous]

On the contrary, HS accommodations like IEP or 504 are generally not even accepted at the college level without the college re-evaluating the supporting documentation (for ADHD, for example, a neuropsych is a common requirement). My own university is really strict about this. And in-house diagnostics are not available, so students have to have them already completed when they arrive or get then independently. (That raises all kinds of really troubling questions about equity and access, too.)

In my experience, even students who have gone through the evaluation process for accommodation in college often refuse to use the supports they are offered. I wish I could say it is because they are experimenting with different positive coping mechanisms, but more often it seems Iike the accommodations are just a bridge too far: extra time is exhausting (for ADHD kids it is a battle to stay engaged for Every. Single. Minute. no matter how much they may want to), and other accommodations can make them feel like they are imposing. The accommodation of flexible deadline dates for assignments, btw, is usually something granted because of other diagnoses, not ADHD. (Anxiety is one example.) And regardless of accommodations, students of all diagnoses almost always run out of meds, which doesn't help.

What are families to do in this environment? For those with kids who don't need accommodations, just encourage empathy. Remind them that accommodations are not designed to provide an advantage, but to address a gap (a gap that may very well not be completely eradicable) between available performance levels. Encourage them to think about what their classmates are experiencing, and to consider how they might feel if they were a parent or a teacher trying to help. And for those with accommodated students, keep the testing as current as you can, the documentation as official as you can, and the self-education of the student as proactive and supportive as you can. As we all know, at the college level the students have to be their own advocates, but they also need to collaborate as well.as they can with those who genuinely want to help them.

And for those who argue that the workplace doesn't give extra time on tests, that is completely true. But not all workplaces require you to perform completely unrelated tasks in completely different subject areas in close succession on a daily basis, and to change jobs every semester (which a college schedule with distribution requirements essentially does). There are plenty of jobs that involve much more specificity, and professions that can play to a person's strengths. People who need accommodations in college can be extremely successful in a well-chosen career environment with no help. I am hoping for that for my own DC, too.

- College prof and ADHD parent

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:On the contrary, HS accommodations like IEP or 504 are generally not even accepted at the college level without the college re-evaluating the supporting documentation (for ADHD, for example, a neuropsych is a common requirement). My own university is really strict about this. And in-house diagnostics are not available, so students have to have them already completed when they arrive or get then independently. (That raises all kinds of really troubling questions about equity and access, too.)

In my experience, even students who have gone through the evaluation process for accommodation in college often refuse to use the supports they are offered. I wish I could say it is because they are experimenting with different positive coping mechanisms, but more often it seems Iike the accommodations are just a bridge too far: extra time is exhausting (for ADHD kids it is a battle to stay engaged for Every. Single. Minute. no matter how much they may want to), and other accommodations can make them feel like they are imposing. The accommodation of flexible deadline dates for assignments, btw, is usually something granted because of other diagnoses, not ADHD. (Anxiety is one example.) And regardless of accommodations, students of all diagnoses almost always run out of meds, which doesn't help.

What are families to do in this environment? For those with kids who don't need accommodations, just encourage empathy. Remind them that accommodations are not designed to provide an advantage, but to address a gap (a gap that may very well not be completely eradicable) between available performance levels. Encourage them to think about what their classmates are experiencing, and to consider how they might feel if they were a parent or a teacher trying to help. And for those with accommodated students, keep the testing as current as you can, the documentation as official as you can, and the self-education of the student as proactive and supportive as you can. As we all know, at the college level the students have to be their own advocates, but they also need to collaborate as well.as they can with those who genuinely want to help them.

And for those who argue that the workplace doesn't give extra time on tests, that is completely true. But not all workplaces require you to perform completely unrelated tasks in completely different subject areas in close succession on a daily basis, and to change jobs every semester (which a college schedule with distribution requirements essentially does). There are plenty of jobs that involve much more specificity, and professions that can play to a person's strengths. People who need accommodations in college can be extremely successful in a well-chosen career environment with no help. I am hoping for that for my own DC, too.

- College prof and ADHD parent

I am copying and pasting this to keep on hand. Brilliant. Thank you.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:On the contrary, HS accommodations like IEP or 504 are generally not even accepted at the college level without the college re-evaluating the supporting documentation (for ADHD, for example, a neuropsych is a common requirement). My own university is really strict about this. And in-house diagnostics are not available, so students have to have them already completed when they arrive or get then independently. (That raises all kinds of really troubling questions about equity and access, too.)

In my experience, even students who have gone through the evaluation process for accommodation in college often refuse to use the supports they are offered. I wish I could say it is because they are experimenting with different positive coping mechanisms, but more often it seems Iike the accommodations are just a bridge too far: extra time is exhausting (for ADHD kids it is a battle to stay engaged for Every. Single. Minute. no matter how much they may want to), and other accommodations can make them feel like they are imposing. The accommodation of flexible deadline dates for assignments, btw, is usually something granted because of other diagnoses, not ADHD. (Anxiety is one example.) And regardless of accommodations, students of all diagnoses almost always run out of meds, which doesn't help.

What are families to do in this environment? For those with kids who don't need accommodations, just encourage empathy. Remind them that accommodations are not designed to provide an advantage, but to address a gap (a gap that may very well not be completely eradicable) between available performance levels. Encourage them to think about what their classmates are experiencing, and to consider how they might feel if they were a parent or a teacher trying to help. And for those with accommodated students, keep the testing as current as you can, the documentation as official as you can, and the self-education of the student as proactive and supportive as you can. As we all know, at the college level the students have to be their own advocates, but they also need to collaborate as well.as they can with those who genuinely want to help them.

And for those who argue that the workplace doesn't give extra time on tests, that is completely true. But not all workplaces require you to perform completely unrelated tasks in completely different subject areas in close succession on a daily basis, and to change jobs every semester (which a college schedule with distribution requirements essentially does). There are plenty of jobs that involve much more specificity, and professions that can play to a person's strengths. People who need accommodations in college can be extremely successful in a well-chosen career environment with no help. I am hoping for that for my own DC, too.

- College prof and ADHD parent

This rings true. My DC had to get reevaluated before going to college, and when he arrived, the college did accept the evaluation and offer him the accommodations, but he did not want them. He probably still needed them, but he was tired of the stigma attached to being an “extra time” kid. I would echo the calls for empathy on this and other posts. Most kids and families are not scamming the system. If someone tells you they got evaluated just before the SAT, be skeptical, but in the ordinary course, that it not how this works. My DC went from having thoughts of self harm in MS from falling behind and getting picked on and excluded, to understanding his limits better and becoming more comfortable with himself in HS. If that’s a scam, I’ll take it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am curious if all the kids getting extra time on tests have to disclose this for college and/or does your high school mention on your application. My DC has been asking I look into this and I have always said no although DC could benefit as we manage some add issues. DC gets good grades but has to study a lot and is getting frustrated at so many kids with the extra time. My answer was always that this will catch up when applying for college but now am not so sure and wonder if I should go through the process for extra time to lessen stress.

No this is not reported to colleges. Once admitted to college the people with diagnosed issues then share that with college to get services there -- like extra time, etc.

But you have to have an issue. You can't just ask for extra time. Colleges (and most high schools) will require a report from a medical professional of some type.

Not being snarky, but how do these kids turned adults tend to do in the workplace where they may not get extra time and accommodations they've had for years ? My son may be going down this road so I'm genuinely curious.

Well, they mostly don't becom surgeons or test pilots. Other than that, the real world works on projects on deadlines. Rarely is somebody tasked with something to be done in 15 minutes, that can't be done in 22 or an hour-long project that can't be done in an hour and half. If you're a boss that does ask that, you probably need management training. People ask this stupid question all the time. It's really a dumb question to ask.

Also, tests are designed to demonstrate WHAT YOU KNOW. Having more time to show whether or not you have knowledge is very different than taking twice as long to make a widget.

I am a professor and usually give all students as much time as they need to complete my tests. I want to find out if they understand the content I taught them. I don't care if they can show me that quickly. It is not a race. I just want to see if they grasp the concepts I tried to convey to them.

Do you understand the difference?

I wish this was true of high school tests. So many tests have a time constraint that greatly increases the challenge. If you aren’t able to look at the math problem and immediately see how to solve it, then you are out of luck.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am curious if all the kids getting extra time on tests have to disclose this for college and/or does your high school mention on your application. My DC has been asking I look into this and I have always said no although DC could benefit as we manage some add issues. DC gets good grades but has to study a lot and is getting frustrated at so many kids with the extra time. My answer was always that this will catch up when applying for college but now am not so sure and wonder if I should go through the process for extra time to lessen stress.

No this is not reported to colleges. Once admitted to college the people with diagnosed issues then share that with college to get services there -- like extra time, etc.

But you have to have an issue. You can't just ask for extra time. Colleges (and most high schools) will require a report from a medical professional of some type.

Wrong. You can shop around for a psychologist and you will find one to certify that your kid has issue and required extra time. It will cost you around 5K and will last three to four years, IIRC. I did that for one of my kids. He got extra time on SAT/ACT exam, and now that he is in college, he also get 50% extra time on exams. Just call college Student Services and it will be taken care of.

So, your kid has an issue then.

Or, you are asserting that both you and this psychologist are unethical.

[Anonymous]

My son has struggled with ADHD and a disabling anxiety disorder that leaves him immobilized quite often. He, along with most kids with ADHD, is extremely bright and was identified as gifted early in his life (again, as many ADHD kids are). So it is, in fact, somewhat of a cruel situation that these 2e kids are often highly ambitious, motivated and capable intellectually but also quite unable to "perform" according to normal standards. They can be labeled as underachievers and worse, which can harm their self esteem as well as their future opportunities, college choices among them. Hopefully my son and others in this situation will land on a profession that actually values the way their brains work and accommodates their ways of working. It will also likely get better when the prefrontal cortex is more developed by mid 20s (fingers crossed). My son (and other ADHD kids) can also hyperfocus on areas that they are highly competent in and are engaged with (in his case, science and math). I see him spending long hours in a science lab, for instance, not at a desk in an accounting office. I'm hoping he accepts accommodations in college but I know it's more difficult for college kids to advocate for themselves in that environment. That leaves parents (and kids) in a tough position going forward.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My son has struggled with ADHD and a disabling anxiety disorder that leaves him immobilized quite often. He, along with most kids with ADHD, is extremely bright and was identified as gifted early in his life (again, as many ADHD kids are). So it is, in fact, somewhat of a cruel situation that these 2e kids are often highly ambitious, motivated and capable intellectually but also quite unable to "perform" according to normal standards. They can be labeled as underachievers and worse, which can harm their self esteem as well as their future opportunities, college choices among them. Hopefully my son and others in this situation will land on a profession that actually values the way their brains work and accommodates their ways of working. It will also likely get better when the prefrontal cortex is more developed by mid 20s (fingers crossed). My son (and other ADHD kids) can also hyperfocus on areas that they are highly competent in and are engaged with (in his case, science and math). I see him spending long hours in a science lab, for instance, not at a desk in an accounting office. I'm hoping he accepts accommodations in college but I know it's more difficult for college kids to advocate for themselves in that environment. That leaves parents (and kids) in a tough position going forward.

Completely true. It is a terrible irony that so many help mechanisms are actually in direct conflict with the very problems they are trying to address (actually seeking out therapy can be almost impossible for someone who is severely depressed; invoking and using ADHD accommodations, especially in college, requires a level of organization that defies many students' executive-functioning challenges). Here are some ways, including quite involved ways, that I think families can help their ADHD college kids. (Bear in mind, I have an ADHD DC and I teach college, but DC is too young to go to college yet, so I speak here as a professor but not quite yet as a college parent.)

1. Make sure that DC's medical and neuropsych documentation is up-to-date and the relevant shareable information is comprehensible and accessible to DC. (See if the intended college needs a new neuropsych, for example.) Put copies of all of the documentation in a secure electronic place that you can access and share with DC so that new copies can be printed as needed. Include contact information for providers and their offices, especially medication providers and therapists that you may still be using, and make sure that DC knows how to access help quickly, especially if mood swings or depression are an issue and DC still has a therapist "at home."

2. Make sure that you and DC have signed together all of the necessary documents for HIPAA and FERPA so that you can participate in DC's healthcare and academic life as needed. You can always choose to give DC lots more privacy, but you can't always get FERPA or HIPAA clearance immediately in an emergency. Remember, however, not to abuse FERPA: this is not for calling professors, but rather for ensuring that if you need to connect with people you don't need to worry that anything is standing in your way.

3. Develop a workflow and routine for medication management. Does DC already take meds on schedule without reminders? If not, choose an app or a calendar or a family texting plan to make sure this happens. If the meds are especially important for DC's functioning, mood stability, or personal safety, and DC is very bad about taking them, make them take them on Facetime with you for the first few weeks, and make it non-negotiable. This is not babying: executive functioning often suffers in new environments with new distractions, and the first few weeks of college are a critical time for everyone's adjustment, stabilization, and happiness.

4. Learn how academic accommodation and personal support (including counseling) are handled at the college. You can put the information about the relevant offices, including numbers and locations, into the electronic file I mentioned above in #1. Then participate in the accommodation intake process * insofar as the college allows * . As the family of a freshman, you have some access to conversations with the professionals who will be helping DC, at least before school starts. Use that as a chance to learn about how supports are determined and implemented, how they are renewed, and what DC needs to do in order to invoke and use accommodations in classes.

* Bear in mind that accommodations may need to be renewed every semester between DC and the campus office, because DC will have new professors every semester. * At my institution, this means a student receives new documentation every semester to share with faculty.

5. Check in with DC when classes start to make sure that they have notified all of their professors of their accommodations. Ask how they intend to use them based on their experiences so far in each course. Repeat each semester until DC has a general sense of what they need to do and can be trusted to do it.

6. If you sense trouble, urge DC to visit the counseling center, accommodations office, or tutoring service * early *. This isn't just for DC's sake (or yours): it is because these kinds of offices fill up with client loads and sometimes students have to wait to receive the assistance they need. Midterm is when the stress tends to hit all students, and by then many of these services can be overflowing. If DC is likely to be a regular client, they should plug in early in the semester even if things haven't gotten too hard yet.

My most successful ADHD students have had supportive families who set their goals high but also allowed the students to own their own mistakes. Depression management has also been key: when the depression is under control, the ADHD has been infinitely less of a barrier. I always try to get them to deal first with the former and then with the latter.

Best wishes to everyone.

- College prof and ADHD parent

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am curious if all the kids getting extra time on tests have to disclose this for college and/or does your high school mention on your application. My DC has been asking I look into this and I have always said no although DC could benefit as we manage some add issues. DC gets good grades but has to study a lot and is getting frustrated at so many kids with the extra time. My answer was always that this will catch up when applying for college but now am not so sure and wonder if I should go through the process for extra time to lessen stress.

No this is not reported to colleges. Once admitted to college the people with diagnosed issues then share that with college to get services there -- like extra time, etc.

But you have to have an issue. You can't just ask for extra time. Colleges (and most high schools) will require a report from a medical professional of some type.

Not being snarky, but how do these kids turned adults tend to do in the workplace where they may not get extra time and accommodations they've had for years ? My son may be going down this road so I'm genuinely curious.

In college, students can get extra time on exams but generally not extensions of due dates. Instead, they are expected to manage their time to allow for assignments taking longer. This is similar to how most work places work. Also, employees have more control than students: my 2e kid who can't write a paragraph under timed conditions isn't going to become a lawyer, but her difficulties won't stop her from being an amazing engineer.

Not true, many students get both. I am a law professor and the number of students with accommodations these days compared to 10 years ago is out of control. The PP's question is not dumb at all (as another poster suggested). I am constantly wondering how my law students are going to function in the real world. The judge isn't going to give them "extra time" to get something done during trial, for example. Nor is a partner going to give them "extra time" to do that quick research she needs. We are doing such a disservice to these students by so freely granting extra time and other accommodations (e.g., you can get up and leave class because of some issue; or you can record every class; or you can stand up in the middle of class because your ADD prevents you from sitting through a 75 minute class). Totally ridiculous...

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am curious if all the kids getting extra time on tests have to disclose this for college and/or does your high school mention on your application. My DC has been asking I look into this and I have always said no although DC could benefit as we manage some add issues. DC gets good grades but has to study a lot and is getting frustrated at so many kids with the extra time. My answer was always that this will catch up when applying for college but now am not so sure and wonder if I should go through the process for extra time to lessen stress.

No this is not reported to colleges. Once admitted to college the people with diagnosed issues then share that with college to get services there -- like extra time, etc.

But you have to have an issue. You can't just ask for extra time. Colleges (and most high schools) will require a report from a medical professional of some type.

Wrong. You can shop around for a psychologist and you will find one to certify that your kid has issue and required extra time. It will cost you around 5K and will last three to four years, IIRC. I did that for one of my kids. He got extra time on SAT/ACT exam, and now that he is in college, he also get 50% extra time on exams. Just call college Student Services and it will be taken care of.

Sorry, I assumed that both the parent and the health professional had integrity.

You can pull off most things if you are willing to cheat...but I was giving other posters the benefit of the doubt.

You probably think Donald Trump was a genius too, since he pulled off so many scams. We do not really approach parenting or life in similar ways.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am curious if all the kids getting extra time on tests have to disclose this for college and/or does your high school mention on your application. My DC has been asking I look into this and I have always said no although DC could benefit as we manage some add issues. DC gets good grades but has to study a lot and is getting frustrated at so many kids with the extra time. My answer was always that this will catch up when applying for college but now am not so sure and wonder if I should go through the process for extra time to lessen stress.

No this is not reported to colleges. Once admitted to college the people with diagnosed issues then share that with college to get services there -- like extra time, etc.

But you have to have an issue. You can't just ask for extra time. Colleges (and most high schools) will require a report from a medical professional of some type.

Wrong. You can shop around for a psychologist and you will find one to certify that your kid has issue and required extra time. It will cost you around 5K and will last three to four years, IIRC. I did that for one of my kids. He got extra time on SAT/ACT exam, and now that he is in college, he also get 50% extra time on exams. Just call college Student Services and it will be taken care of.

Sorry, I assumed that both the parent and the health professional had integrity.

You can pull off most things if you are willing to cheat...but I was giving other posters the benefit of the doubt.

You probably think Donald Trump was a genius too, since he pulled off so many scams. We do not really approach parenting or life in similar ways.

Unfortunately, you can't make that assumption around here.

[Anonymous]

Dc kid had extended time for high school in a 504. Chose not to have the same accommodation in college. First semester grades were hideous, but had to learn to be like everyone else. Because in the workforce there will be no accommodations like that for late work.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Dc kid had extended time for high school in a 504. Chose not to have the same accommodation in college. First semester grades were hideous, but had to learn to be like everyone else. Because in the workforce there will be no accommodations like that for late work.

Again, learning is not the same as producing.

It sounds like your kid has not been served well by the "shove him out of the nest" mentality. Sounds like neither of you has really accepted the fact that he has a disability.

But you do you.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Dc kid had extended time for high school in a 504. Chose not to have the same accommodation in college. First semester grades were hideous, but had to learn to be like everyone else. Because in the workforce there will be no accommodations like that for late work.

Again, learning is not the same as producing.

It sounds like your kid has not been served well by the "shove him out of the nest" mentality. Sounds like neither of you has really accepted the fact that he has a disability.

But you do you.

So if the kid needed the accommodation in order to get an education up to now (not to have an SAT advantage), then why would his need disappear over the summer between senior year in high school and freshman year of college?

Something is not adding up.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am curious if all the kids getting extra time on tests have to disclose this for college and/or does your high school mention on your application. My DC has been asking I look into this and I have always said no although DC could benefit as we manage some add issues. DC gets good grades but has to study a lot and is getting frustrated at so many kids with the extra time. My answer was always that this will catch up when applying for college but now am not so sure and wonder if I should go through the process for extra time to lessen stress.

No this is not reported to colleges. Once admitted to college the people with diagnosed issues then share that with college to get services there -- like extra time, etc.

But you have to have an issue. You can't just ask for extra time. Colleges (and most high schools) will require a report from a medical professional of some type.

Not being snarky, but how do these kids turned adults tend to do in the workplace where they may not get extra time and accommodations they've had for years ? My son may be going down this road so I'm genuinely curious.

Well, they mostly don't becom surgeons or test pilots. Other than that, the real world works on projects on deadlines. Rarely is somebody tasked with something to be done in 15 minutes, that can't be done in 22 or an hour-long project that can't be done in an hour and half. If you're a boss that does ask that, you probably need management training. People ask this stupid question all the time. It's really a dumb question to ask.

Also, tests are designed to demonstrate WHAT YOU KNOW. Having more time to show whether or not you have knowledge is very different than taking twice as long to make a widget.

I am a professor and usually give all students as much time as they need to complete my tests. I want to find out if they understand the content I taught them. I don't care if they can show me that quickly. It is not a race. I just want to see if they grasp the concepts I tried to convey to them.

Do you understand the difference?

Yes, I understand.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am curious if all the kids getting extra time on tests have to disclose this for college and/or does your high school mention on your application. My DC has been asking I look into this and I have always said no although DC could benefit as we manage some add issues. DC gets good grades but has to study a lot and is getting frustrated at so many kids with the extra time. My answer was always that this will catch up when applying for college but now am not so sure and wonder if I should go through the process for extra time to lessen stress.

My kid has a high IQ, but has a severe learning disability that makes life an incredible challenge for him. He also has to study a lot, probably more than your kid, actually. Extra time on tests is no fun, by the way. Some tests and days can be very long. So please, please keep teaching your kid to be "frustrated" by the learning disabled and hoping that they get theirs in the end, including being shut out from college. For now, that's not the case-my kid is going to Georgetown! You and your kid sound like real gems.

My kid is a gem and has a diagnosis that we decided not to share with school as we were worried about getting into secondary school. Child also has good grades but needs to study a lot and this is why I asked as child thinks it is time to ask for the extra time. I have worried about the impact for college but looks like no impact and maybe will be a good thing. PP this is why you should not jump to conclusions.