extra time on tests and applying to college

[Anonymous]

I know a student with ADHD (and accommodations l) who wants to go to law school. How far do testing accommodations go? LSAT? The Bar? Sincerely curious.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Dc kid had extended time for high school in a 504. Chose not to have the same accommodation in college. First semester grades were hideous, but had to learn to be like everyone else. Because in the workforce there will be no accommodations like that for late work.

Again, learning is not the same as producing.

It sounds like your kid has not been served well by the "shove him out of the nest" mentality. Sounds like neither of you has really accepted the fact that he has a disability.

But you do you.

So if the kid needed the accommodation in order to get an education up to now (not to have an SAT advantage), then why would his need disappear over the summer between senior year in high school and freshman year of college?

Something is not adding up.

Op here. So no my child’s disability did not disappear and yes we do accept their disability. We used first semester as an experiment in finding a degree/career that they would feel comfortable with based on how they learn and how they function with their disability. Subsequently, after first semester it has been great, and dc found a degree that allows them to shine and hopefully be very successful. High school is a one fits all model with no deviation for kids with needs. College is wide open with endless opportunities.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am curious if all the kids getting extra time on tests have to disclose this for college and/or does your high school mention on your application. My DC has been asking I look into this and I have always said no although DC could benefit as we manage some add issues. DC gets good grades but has to study a lot and is getting frustrated at so many kids with the extra time. My answer was always that this will catch up when applying for college but now am not so sure and wonder if I should go through the process for extra time to lessen stress.

No this is not reported to colleges. Once admitted to college the people with diagnosed issues then share that with college to get services there -- like extra time, etc.

But you have to have an issue. You can't just ask for extra time. Colleges (and most high schools) will require a report from a medical professional of some type.

Not being snarky, but how do these kids turned adults tend to do in the workplace where they may not get extra time and accommodations they've had for years ? My son may be going down this road so I'm genuinely curious.

Well, they mostly don't becom surgeons or test pilots. Other than that, the real world works on projects on deadlines. Rarely is somebody tasked with something to be done in 15 minutes, that can't be done in 22 or an hour-long project that can't be done in an hour and half. If you're a boss that does ask that, you probably need management training. People ask this stupid question all the time. It's really a dumb question to ask.

It's not a dumb question. People are curious b/c they don't equate "executive functioning" issues on the same level as other, more serious diagnoses. It's one of those amorphous type of diagnoses that can be used, appropriately but also not. So you can answer the questions and educate people. Or be a jerk and just reinforce peoples' perceptions.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am curious if all the kids getting extra time on tests have to disclose this for college and/or does your high school mention on your application. My DC has been asking I look into this and I have always said no although DC could benefit as we manage some add issues. DC gets good grades but has to study a lot and is getting frustrated at so many kids with the extra time. My answer was always that this will catch up when applying for college but now am not so sure and wonder if I should go through the process for extra time to lessen stress.

No this is not reported to colleges. Once admitted to college the people with diagnosed issues then share that with college to get services there -- like extra time, etc.

But you have to have an issue. You can't just ask for extra time. Colleges (and most high schools) will require a report from a medical professional of some type.

Not being snarky, but how do these kids turned adults tend to do in the workplace where they may not get extra time and accommodations they've had for years ? My son may be going down this road so I'm genuinely curious.

In college, students can get extra time on exams but generally not extensions of due dates. Instead, they are expected to manage their time to allow for assignments taking longer. This is similar to how most work places work. Also, employees have more control than students: my 2e kid who can't write a paragraph under timed conditions isn't going to become a lawyer, but her difficulties won't stop her from being an amazing engineer.

Not true, many students get both. I am a law professor and the number of students with accommodations these days compared to 10 years ago is out of control. The PP's question is not dumb at all (as another poster suggested). I am constantly wondering how my law students are going to function in the real world. The judge isn't going to give them "extra time" to get something done during trial, for example. Nor is a partner going to give them "extra time" to do that quick research she needs. We are doing such a disservice to these students by so freely granting extra time and other accommodations (e.g., you can get up and leave class because of some issue; or you can record every class; or you can stand up in the middle of class because your ADD prevents you from sitting through a 75 minute class). Totally ridiculous...

Professor, you need to retire. If students are too stupid to find and employer that will, gasp, let them stand up and walk around for a second every couple of hours, then they are too stupid to be in law school.

I’m a business owner with ADHD, and I’ve always found the realities of the business world much easier to deal with than the artificial, assembly line structure of traditional education. Also, if I can get a great employee who needs to stand while working or needs to walk around every once in a while or organizes their time to devote more time to certain tasks while still delivering on time, that’s a win for me.

This entire web site, representing thousands of hours of work blown of by professionals as they argue with strangers, is clear evidence that most people waste huge amounts of time at work every day, and people with ADHD taking an extra half hour on a task will be fine.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Not true, many students get both. I am a law professor and the number of students with accommodations these days compared to 10 years ago is out of control. The PP's question is not dumb at all (as another poster suggested). I am constantly wondering how my law students are going to function in the real world. The judge isn't going to give them "extra time" to get something done during trial, for example. Nor is a partner going to give them "extra time" to do that quick research she needs. We are doing such a disservice to these students by so freely granting extra time and other accommodations (e.g., you can get up and leave class because of some issue; or you can record every class; or you can stand up in the middle of class because your ADD prevents you from sitting through a 75 minute class). Totally ridiculous...

Professor, you need to retire. If students are too stupid to find and employer that will, gasp, let them stand up and walk around for a second every couple of hours, then they are too stupid to be in law school.

I’m a business owner with ADHD, and I’ve always found the realities of the business world much easier to deal with than the artificial, assembly line structure of traditional education. Also, if I can get a great employee who needs to stand while working or needs to walk around every once in a while or organizes their time to devote more time to certain tasks while still delivering on time, that’s a win for me.

This entire web site, representing thousands of hours of work blown of by professionals as they argue with strangers, is clear evidence that most people waste huge amounts of time at work every day, and people with ADHD taking an extra half hour on a task will be fine.




AMEN.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am curious if all the kids getting extra time on tests have to disclose this for college and/or does your high school mention on your application. My DC has been asking I look into this and I have always said no although DC could benefit as we manage some add issues. DC gets good grades but has to study a lot and is getting frustrated at so many kids with the extra time. My answer was always that this will catch up when applying for college but now am not so sure and wonder if I should go through the process for extra time to lessen stress.

Would he like to trade places with my child? He's autistic, had no friends, and everything (including tests) takes him twice the time as everyone else, so he has less time to relax or for fun activities. Because while your son is "frustrated" that my child gets extra time, my child is frustrated that he *needs* (not wants) extra time.

Please calm down, PP.

My DC tells me there ARE kids in school who do not appear to have any learning disabilities, don't struggle, yet somehow have a diagnosis of test anxiety or something like that, and they get extra time on tests and on the ACT/SAT.

Is this true? I don't know, but DC is fairly observant. DC knows what autism looks like, and these kids do not have autism or anything like it. They're just hyper-competitive, as are their parents.

What a disgusting statement OP. Apple does not fall far from the tree.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am curious if all the kids getting extra time on tests have to disclose this for college and/or does your high school mention on your application. My DC has been asking I look into this and I have always said no although DC could benefit as we manage some add issues. DC gets good grades but has to study a lot and is getting frustrated at so many kids with the extra time. My answer was always that this will catch up when applying for college but now am not so sure and wonder if I should go through the process for extra time to lessen stress.

No this is not reported to colleges. Once admitted to college the people with diagnosed issues then share that with college to get services there -- like extra time, etc.

But you have to have an issue. You can't just ask for extra time. Colleges (and most high schools) will require a report from a medical professional of some type.

Wrong. You can shop around for a psychologist and you will find one to certify that your kid has issue and required extra time. It will cost you around 5K and will last three to four years, IIRC. I did that for one of my kids. He got extra time on SAT/ACT exam, and now that he is in college, he also get 50% extra time on exams. Just call college Student Services and it will be taken care of.

Thank you for saying this.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am curious if all the kids getting extra time on tests have to disclose this for college and/or does your high school mention on your application. My DC has been asking I look into this and I have always said no although DC could benefit as we manage some add issues. DC gets good grades but has to study a lot and is getting frustrated at so many kids with the extra time. My answer was always that this will catch up when applying for college but now am not so sure and wonder if I should go through the process for extra time to lessen stress.

No this is not reported to colleges. Once admitted to college the people with diagnosed issues then share that with college to get services there -- like extra time, etc.

But you have to have an issue. You can't just ask for extra time. Colleges (and most high schools) will require a report from a medical professional of some type.

Not being snarky, but how do these kids turned adults tend to do in the workplace where they may not get extra time and accommodations they've had for years ? My son may be going down this road so I'm genuinely curious.

Well, they mostly don't becom surgeons or test pilots. Other than that, the real world works on projects on deadlines. Rarely is somebody tasked with something to be done in 15 minutes, that can't be done in 22 or an hour-long project that can't be done in an hour and half. If you're a boss that does ask that, you probably need management training. People ask this stupid question all the time. It's really a dumb question to ask.

Also, tests are designed to demonstrate WHAT YOU KNOW. Having more time to show whether or not you have knowledge is very different than taking twice as long to make a widget.

I am a professor and usually give all students as much time as they need to complete my tests. I want to find out if they understand the content I taught them. I don't care if they can show me that quickly. It is not a race. I just want to see if they grasp the concepts I tried to convey to them.

Do you understand the difference?

Oh wow - this is wonderful to hear! My DD has this amazing math mind, and understands really complex math topics. She always wants to know the “why” behind formulas and will take the time to figure it out. But she is very slow when solving problems due to her ADHD and slow processing speed, so she sometimes runs out of time on tests. I really dislike this, because she could probably explain the concept better than a lot of the kids who finished and ended up with higher grades.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am curious if all the kids getting extra time on tests have to disclose this for college and/or does your high school mention on your application. My DC has been asking I look into this and I have always said no although DC could benefit as we manage some add issues. DC gets good grades but has to study a lot and is getting frustrated at so many kids with the extra time. My answer was always that this will catch up when applying for college but now am not so sure and wonder if I should go through the process for extra time to lessen stress.

No this is not reported to colleges. Once admitted to college the people with diagnosed issues then share that with college to get services there -- like extra time, etc.

But you have to have an issue. You can't just ask for extra time. Colleges (and most high schools) will require a report from a medical professional of some type.

Wrong. You can shop around for a psychologist and you will find one to certify that your kid has issue and required extra time. It will cost you around 5K and will last three to four years, IIRC. I did that for one of my kids. He got extra time on SAT/ACT exam, and now that he is in college, he also get 50% extra time on exams. Just call college Student Services and it will be taken care of.

Thank you for saying this.

No not wrong. You have to have someone write a report -- a medical professional. Either you are lying or they are. Either way you have a report. Sure you can shop around at 5k per. But you do understand it is a federal crime if you have lied and you use the report with a college.

[Anonymous]

If only everyone would listen to each other, rather than just say their point of view. Parents of kids without disabilities and extra time wish their kids would get extra time. Parents of kids with disabilities and extra time wish their kids didn't need it. Are there some families that skirt the system, and pay for an unnecessary doctor report, sure, but that just harms everyone (and there isn't a system in any government, business, industry or organization that doesn't have someone trying to get around somehow). Just be ethical and do what you know is right. Integrity and character are everything, and you, and likely your child, will have to live with your choice.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am curious if all the kids getting extra time on tests have to disclose this for college and/or does your high school mention on your application. My DC has been asking I look into this and I have always said no although DC could benefit as we manage some add issues. DC gets good grades but has to study a lot and is getting frustrated at so many kids with the extra time. My answer was always that this will catch up when applying for college but now am not so sure and wonder if I should go through the process for extra time to lessen stress.

We found out DD has ADD just a few weeks ago. She complained bitterly about the kids with extra time on tests. She thinks they are cheating, faking it to get an ADD or LD diagnosis so they can get extra time.

She does have to work extra hard, probably too hard, which is why we had her tested, finally. Her case is mild, so she likely wouldn't even qualify for extra time, but it does seem unfair that so many kids get it.

well, ADD hasn't been given as a diagnosis for a few decades now, so...

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am curious if all the kids getting extra time on tests have to disclose this for college and/or does your high school mention on your application. My DC has been asking I look into this and I have always said no although DC could benefit as we manage some add issues. DC gets good grades but has to study a lot and is getting frustrated at so many kids with the extra time. My answer was always that this will catch up when applying for college but now am not so sure and wonder if I should go through the process for extra time to lessen stress.

No this is not reported to colleges. Once admitted to college the people with diagnosed issues then share that with college to get services there -- like extra time, etc.

But you have to have an issue. You can't just ask for extra time. Colleges (and most high schools) will require a report from a medical professional of some type.

Not being snarky, but how do these kids turned adults tend to do in the workplace where they may not get extra time and accommodations they've had for years ? My son may be going down this road so I'm genuinely curious.

Well, they mostly don't becom surgeons or test pilots. Other than that, the real world works on projects on deadlines. Rarely is somebody tasked with something to be done in 15 minutes, that can't be done in 22 or an hour-long project that can't be done in an hour and half. If you're a boss that does ask that, you probably need management training. People ask this stupid question all the time. It's really a dumb question to ask.

Thank you. I get upset when teachers say this to my kid. It is based on ignorance.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am curious if all the kids getting extra time on tests have to disclose this for college and/or does your high school mention on your application. My DC has been asking I look into this and I have always said no although DC could benefit as we manage some add issues. DC gets good grades but has to study a lot and is getting frustrated at so many kids with the extra time. My answer was always that this will catch up when applying for college but now am not so sure and wonder if I should go through the process for extra time to lessen stress.

No this is not reported to colleges. Once admitted to college the people with diagnosed issues then share that with college to get services there -- like extra time, etc.

But you have to have an issue. You can't just ask for extra time. Colleges (and most high schools) will require a report from a medical professional of some type.

Not being snarky, but how do these kids turned adults tend to do in the workplace where they may not get extra time and accommodations they've had for years ? My son may be going down this road so I'm genuinely curious.

In college, students can get extra time on exams but generally not extensions of due dates. Instead, they are expected to manage their time to allow for assignments taking longer. This is similar to how most work places work. Also, employees have more control than students: my 2e kid who can't write a paragraph under timed conditions isn't going to become a lawyer, but her difficulties won't stop her from being an amazing engineer.

Not true. My college kid gets both.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Not true, many students get both. I am a law professor and the number of students with accommodations these days compared to 10 years ago is out of control. The PP's question is not dumb at all (as another poster suggested). I am constantly wondering how my law students are going to function in the real world. The judge isn't going to give them "extra time" to get something done during trial, for example. Nor is a partner going to give them "extra time" to do that quick research she needs. We are doing such a disservice to these students by so freely granting extra time and other accommodations (e.g., you can get up and leave class because of some issue; or you can record every class; or you can stand up in the middle of class because your ADD prevents you from sitting through a 75 minute class). Totally ridiculous...

Professor, you need to retire. If students are too stupid to find and employer that will, gasp, let them stand up and walk around for a second every couple of hours, then they are too stupid to be in law school.

I’m a business owner with ADHD, and I’ve always found the realities of the business world much easier to deal with than the artificial, assembly line structure of traditional education. Also, if I can get a great employee who needs to stand while working or needs to walk around every once in a while or organizes their time to devote more time to certain tasks while still delivering on time, that’s a win for me.

This entire web site, representing thousands of hours of work blown of by professionals as they argue with strangers, is clear evidence that most people waste huge amounts of time at work every day, and people with ADHD taking an extra half hour on a task will be fine.

AMEN.

Yes. Preach!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am curious if all the kids getting extra time on tests have to disclose this for college and/or does your high school mention on your application. My DC has been asking I look into this and I have always said no although DC could benefit as we manage some add issues. DC gets good grades but has to study a lot and is getting frustrated at so many kids with the extra time. My answer was always that this will catch up when applying for college but now am not so sure and wonder if I should go through the process for extra time to lessen stress.

No this is not reported to colleges. Once admitted to college the people with diagnosed issues then share that with college to get services there -- like extra time, etc.

But you have to have an issue. You can't just ask for extra time. Colleges (and most high schools) will require a report from a medical professional of some type.

Not being snarky, but how do these kids turned adults tend to do in the workplace where they may not get extra time and accommodations they've had for years ? My son may be going down this road so I'm genuinely curious.

Well, they mostly don't becom surgeons or test pilots. Other than that, the real world works on projects on deadlines. Rarely is somebody tasked with something to be done in 15 minutes, that can't be done in 22 or an hour-long project that can't be done in an hour and half. If you're a boss that does ask that, you probably need management training. People ask this stupid question all the time. It's really a dumb question to ask.

Also, tests are designed to demonstrate WHAT YOU KNOW. Having more time to show whether or not you have knowledge is very different than taking twice as long to make a widget.

I am a professor and usually give all students as much time as they need to complete my tests. I want to find out if they understand the content I taught them. I don't care if they can show me that quickly. It is not a race. I just want to see if they grasp the concepts I tried to convey to them.

Do you understand the difference?

Oh wow - this is wonderful to hear! My DD has this amazing math mind, and understands really complex math topics. She always wants to know the “why” behind formulas and will take the time to figure it out. But she is very slow when solving problems due to her ADHD and slow processing speed, so she sometimes runs out of time on tests. I really dislike this, because she could probably explain the concept better than a lot of the kids who finished and ended up with higher grades.

Mine also has an amazing math mind, but has convinced herself that she's not good because it takes time to get through things and to check for her many misreadings (add v subtract etc). But, she can see factors for polynomials in a way her sister (who got a 5 on Calc BC as a Soph) wishes she could. Thought the extra time would solve it, but sometimes she goes into a rabbit hole or gets exhausted. She is in a magnet with great teachers, but they are not great w/ adhd and cater to the "fast" kids. I hope she can find her way. I wish they did more orally.