For those who are separated/divorced

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We were separated for 2 years until the pandemic when our divorce is final. I got stuck due to lockdown orders and then challenges with remote school and not normal childcare options. We are both in the martial home but one of us owns it now since we divorced. I have been divorced 18 months. Our kids do not know. Everyone else does. Their life has not changed. We stopped doing holidays, dinners, and anything together many years ago. We have not had the same bedroom for many, many years. We were essentially living separate lives in the marriage so there is literally difference to them.

I am moving soon. We were never telling them until their lives were actually disrupted from moving. We take turns on different days and live like roommates.

I would not tell kids until someone is actually moving.

You can start an in-home separation until you resolve housing issues. Then you can tell them.

Interesting. Since you have kids did you eat dinner together as a "family"? Did your kids find two you sleeping in different rooms odd or normal since they don't know anything else? Also, without doing holidays, etc how do your kids not know something is off? If we stopped celebrating Christmas together...my kids would be like "what?". Honestly interested to read.

They don't remember us sleeping in the same room. We celebrate Christmas with our own families. My parents did this and they were/are married. My parents did not get along with their in-laws. It was such a relief not to see each other's families for the holidays anymore. The kids go with each of us to our famlies. It is not always exactly on Christmas. Who cares? The winter break is long.

And no, we rarely ever ate dinner together as a family. I never could stand that tradition. One of us eats with the kids. We both eat on our own. This was like this before kids even. Very occassionally we will all have dinner together and we will still do that divorced. But no, we never ever did daily dinners together. Kids eat different things than us. They get fed. We eat on our own. No change with that whatsoever.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I think my spouse will be angry. He thinks our relationship is fine. I’ve told him many times it’s not, we have gone to counseling twice. He hasn’t changed. He is too focused on work. Divorce will upend his easy life, so I expect it will get ugly. I want to prepare and get organized before things get heated so it can go as smoothly as possible.

He won’t be surprised; though he may try to be and try to blame you for wrecking everything (his easy, selfish life). You’ve tried to be adults and talk about it; he will not or cannot. The fact that any lawyer or therapist you’ve spoke with pegs him as one so unreasonable that you have to move out in order to get a response for him tells us everything we need to know. He doesn’t even have enough maturity to move out himself when asked or via a separation/temp custody letter.

Can you move out with the kids or is he a competent caregiver and good with them and for them?

Yes pick your lawyer, sign the retainer, fill everything out. Move and file that same day for separation and temporary everything.
His lawyer will call yours, talk through them.
You may be able to mediate, or he goes bonkers and wants to fight everything. In that case freeze all joint bank and brokerage accounts also when filing.

I would not tell him anything, he already failed at responding to talks about the relationship, feelings, goals, and his role/work addiction. Trust and love is gone.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think my spouse will be angry. He thinks our relationship is fine. I’ve told him many times it’s not, we have gone to counseling twice. He hasn’t changed. He is too focused on work. Divorce will upend his easy life, so I expect it will get ugly. I want to prepare and get organized before things get heated so it can go as smoothly as possible.

Make sure your lawyer is aware of his personality or likely mental disorders.
Only use text and emails going forward and do Yellow Rock now and going forward.

He sounds delusional and unable to talk with or mediate. Sorry these are usually the mentally disordered High Conflict types in court and the ones who will go falsely disparage you to anyone who will listen to him.

I disagree. My ex also thought our marriage was fine. Some men don't need a relationship. It took me years of saying we really need a divorce until he accepted it and it was completely amicable by the time we got to a divorce. If I had done grey rock, that is when I would have had a high-conflict divorce. Mine upended his life a bit but whatever.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think my spouse will be angry. He thinks our relationship is fine. I’ve told him many times it’s not, we have gone to counseling twice. He hasn’t changed. He is too focused on work. Divorce will upend his easy life, so I expect it will get ugly. I want to prepare and get organized before things get heated so it can go as smoothly as possible.

Clearly he does not understand how serious the situation is from your perspective. If there is any chance he might snap out of his work-always trance if he knew you were at the end of your rope, it might make sense to let him know more directly. He may be thinking you're just going through some ups and downs in the marriage. Maybe if you told him directly that you feel like you're at the end of your rope and ask him whether he sees any possibility that things could change, he might finally understand. -- former workaholic DH who saw the light

Sometimes an ultimatum finally gets a person's attention. If you say that this has to change or I do not see a future to this marriage. I don't want to leave I would like to have a different life with you, but it can't be this life that has developed to become this. He might change, and in any event if you do this he can never claim to be surprised.

That requires some self awareness, maturity, and no personality/ mental disorders.

Two therapy sessions and your life partners telling you her concerns and marital issues were the last straw. No need for drama now. He had years to be a real partner, father and homeowner, and he wasn’t.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think my spouse will be angry. He thinks our relationship is fine. I’ve told him many times it’s not, we have gone to counseling twice. He hasn’t changed. He is too focused on work. Divorce will upend his easy life, so I expect it will get ugly. I want to prepare and get organized before things get heated so it can go as smoothly as possible.

Make sure your lawyer is aware of his personality or likely mental disorders.
Only use text and emails going forward and do Yellow Rock now and going forward.

He sounds delusional and unable to talk with or mediate. Sorry these are usually the mentally disordered High Conflict types in court and the ones who will go falsely disparage you to anyone who will listen to him.

I disagree. My ex also thought our marriage was fine. Some men don't need a relationship. It took me years of saying we really need a divorce until he accepted it and it was completely amicable by the time we got to a divorce. If I had done grey rock, that is when I would have had a high-conflict divorce. Mine upended his life a bit but whatever.

Great, I hope for everyone’s sake and pocketbooks OP’s spouse accepts the divorce and is amicable! Especially since a k-12 child is involved and it is not a gray divorce.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think my spouse will be angry. He thinks our relationship is fine. I’ve told him many times it’s not, we have gone to counseling twice. He hasn’t changed. He is too focused on work. Divorce will upend his easy life, so I expect it will get ugly. I want to prepare and get organized before things get heated so it can go as smoothly as possible.

He won’t be surprised; though he may try to be and try to blame you for wrecking everything (his easy, selfish life). You’ve tried to be adults and talk about it; he will not or cannot. The fact that any lawyer or therapist you’ve spoke with pegs him as one so unreasonable that you have to move out in order to get a response for him tells us everything we need to know. He doesn’t even have enough maturity to move out himself when asked or via a separation/temp custody letter.

Can you move out with the kids or is he a competent caregiver and good with them and for them?

Yes pick your lawyer, sign the retainer, fill everything out. Move and file that same day for separation and temporary everything.
His lawyer will call yours, talk through them.
You may be able to mediate, or he goes bonkers and wants to fight everything. In that case freeze all joint bank and brokerage accounts also when filing.

I would not tell him anything, he already failed at responding to talks about the relationship, feelings, goals, and his role/work addiction. Trust and love is gone.

I think you are giving terrible advice that will lead to a high conflict divorce. Mine was amicable because I took the slow road and did not do it the way you describe. The way you describe leads to very high conflict divorces. The better way is to insist you need to divorce and do it in the best interest of the kids and get a property settlement agreement done that is fair. People can mediate or mediate with attorneys. The way you support leads to a tramautic divorce. You have to work together vs. being pit against each other.

[Anonymous]

I moved out but back to a house I had owned before getting married. They moved me and my things in. They wanted the divorce so I waited for them to make that happen. They didn't and one day I met someone I wanted to date and it occurred to me I was stuck in relationship limbo so I filed and texted that I was doing so. That was in August, we were divorced in October.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think my spouse will be angry. He thinks our relationship is fine. I’ve told him many times it’s not, we have gone to counseling twice. He hasn’t changed. He is too focused on work. Divorce will upend his easy life, so I expect it will get ugly. I want to prepare and get organized before things get heated so it can go as smoothly as possible.

Clearly he does not understand how serious the situation is from your perspective. If there is any chance he might snap out of his work-always trance if he knew you were at the end of your rope, it might make sense to let him know more directly. He may be thinking you're just going through some ups and downs in the marriage. Maybe if you told him directly that you feel like you're at the end of your rope and ask him whether he sees any possibility that things could change, he might finally understand. -- former workaholic DH who saw the light

Sometimes an ultimatum finally gets a person's attention. If you say that this has to change or I do not see a future to this marriage. I don't want to leave I would like to have a different life with you, but it can't be this life that has developed to become this. He might change, and in any event if you do this he can never claim to be surprised.

That requires some self awareness, maturity, and no personality/ mental disorders.

Two therapy sessions and your life partners telling you her concerns and marital issues were the last straw. No need for drama now. He had years to be a real partner, father and homeowner, and he wasn’t.

A man can be driven by fears about being a good provider and securing a financially sound future, so that he ends up working in totally unhealthy ways (esp in jobs and industries where this is highly encouraged). That doesn't excuse this behavior, but I do think it is a form of myopia and not mental illness. If that is what is going on, even a couple of therapy sessions might be misunderstood as just a few bumps in the road (of course, it depends on what was said in those sessions).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think my spouse will be angry. He thinks our relationship is fine. I’ve told him many times it’s not, we have gone to counseling twice. He hasn’t changed. He is too focused on work. Divorce will upend his easy life, so I expect it will get ugly. I want to prepare and get organized before things get heated so it can go as smoothly as possible.

He won’t be surprised; though he may try to be and try to blame you for wrecking everything (his easy, selfish life). You’ve tried to be adults and talk about it; he will not or cannot. The fact that any lawyer or therapist you’ve spoke with pegs him as one so unreasonable that you have to move out in order to get a response for him tells us everything we need to know. He doesn’t even have enough maturity to move out himself when asked or via a separation/temp custody letter.

Can you move out with the kids or is he a competent caregiver and good with them and for them?

Yes pick your lawyer, sign the retainer, fill everything out. Move and file that same day for separation and temporary everything.
His lawyer will call yours, talk through them.
You may be able to mediate, or he goes bonkers and wants to fight everything. In that case freeze all joint bank and brokerage accounts also when filing.

I would not tell him anything, he already failed at responding to talks about the relationship, feelings, goals, and his role/work addiction. Trust and love is gone.

I think you are giving terrible advice that will lead to a high conflict divorce. Mine was amicable because I took the slow road and did not do it the way you describe. The way you describe leads to very high conflict divorces. The better way is to insist you need to divorce and do it in the best interest of the kids and get a property settlement agreement done that is fair. People can mediate or mediate with attorneys. The way you support leads to a tramautic divorce. You have to work together vs. being pit against each other.

Have you ever gotten divorced? You both are saying the same thing, but either way someone has to move out, someone has to file for separation, and someone has to start the finances and custody agreement talks.

What does “slow road” event mean? 5-10 years and wait until the children are in college? Sit on your couch and agree to terms, get them papered up at the mediators and then both sign them? The latter happens in 80% of the time, especially if both parents are decent child caregivers and know the marriage is over.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think my spouse will be angry. He thinks our relationship is fine. I’ve told him many times it’s not, we have gone to counseling twice. He hasn’t changed. He is too focused on work. Divorce will upend his easy life, so I expect it will get ugly. I want to prepare and get organized before things get heated so it can go as smoothly as possible.

Clearly he does not understand how serious the situation is from your perspective. If there is any chance he might snap out of his work-always trance if he knew you were at the end of your rope, it might make sense to let him know more directly. He may be thinking you're just going through some ups and downs in the marriage. Maybe if you told him directly that you feel like you're at the end of your rope and ask him whether he sees any possibility that things could change, he might finally understand. -- former workaholic DH who saw the light

Sometimes an ultimatum finally gets a person's attention. If you say that this has to change or I do not see a future to this marriage. I don't want to leave I would like to have a different life with you, but it can't be this life that has developed to become this. He might change, and in any event if you do this he can never claim to be surprised.

That requires some self awareness, maturity, and no personality/ mental disorders.

Two therapy sessions and your life partners telling you her concerns and marital issues were the last straw. No need for drama now. He had years to be a real partner, father and homeowner, and he wasn’t.

A man can be driven by fears about being a good provider and securing a financially sound future, so that he ends up working in totally unhealthy ways (esp in jobs and industries where this is highly encouraged). That doesn't excuse this behavior, but I do think it is a form of myopia and not mental illness. If that is what is going on, even a couple of therapy sessions might be misunderstood as just a few bumps in the road (of course, it depends on what was said in those sessions).

Op said they tired therapy twice, likely for multiple sessions. So she knows if anything improved or not after those two attempts.

Op is on a good track. She’ll be relieved soon and once this is all over.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

They don't remember us sleeping in the same room. We celebrate Christmas with our own families. My parents did this and they were/are married. My parents did not get along with their in-laws. It was such a relief not to see each other's families for the holidays anymore. The kids go with each of us to our famlies. It is not always exactly on Christmas. Who cares? The winter break is long.

And no, we rarely ever ate dinner together as a family. I never could stand that tradition. One of us eats with the kids. We both eat on our own. This was like this before kids even. Very occassionally we will all have dinner together and we will still do that divorced. But no, we never ever did daily dinners together. Kids eat different things than us. They get fed. We eat on our own. No change with that whatsoever.

Honestly it sounds like you never even liked each other and it is hard to understand how and why you ever got married.

You have definitely failed to model a healthy relationship to your kids, but nothing to be done about that now.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think my spouse will be angry. He thinks our relationship is fine. I’ve told him many times it’s not, we have gone to counseling twice. He hasn’t changed. He is too focused on work. Divorce will upend his easy life, so I expect it will get ugly. I want to prepare and get organized before things get heated so it can go as smoothly as possible.

He won’t be surprised; though he may try to be and try to blame you for wrecking everything (his easy, selfish life). You’ve tried to be adults and talk about it; he will not or cannot. The fact that any lawyer or therapist you’ve spoke with pegs him as one so unreasonable that you have to move out in order to get a response for him tells us everything we need to know. He doesn’t even have enough maturity to move out himself when asked or via a separation/temp custody letter.

Can you move out with the kids or is he a competent caregiver and good with them and for them?

Yes pick your lawyer, sign the retainer, fill everything out. Move and file that same day for separation and temporary everything.
His lawyer will call yours, talk through them.
You may be able to mediate, or he goes bonkers and wants to fight everything. In that case freeze all joint bank and brokerage accounts also when filing.

I would not tell him anything, he already failed at responding to talks about the relationship, feelings, goals, and his role/work addiction. Trust and love is gone.

I think you are giving terrible advice that will lead to a high conflict divorce. Mine was amicable because I took the slow road and did not do it the way you describe. The way you describe leads to very high conflict divorces. The better way is to insist you need to divorce and do it in the best interest of the kids and get a property settlement agreement done that is fair. People can mediate or mediate with attorneys. The way you support leads to a tramautic divorce. You have to work together vs. being pit against each other.

And what about OPs post and counseling sessions leads you to believe they can suddenly “work together?”

I guess if he’s transactional and goal oriented he will fill out the sheets and get a cookie. Or he’ll see it as a game to win and fight. Only Op knows, or time will tell. For all we know he’ll take Op to court every year until the kid is 19. Or he’ll run off for an out of state job.

[Anonymous]

This all depends but the most cost effective way to do it is to hash out the terms of the separation agreement prior to filing. Then use a mediator, not an attorney.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I am preparing to file for separation next year. In all likelihood I will be the one moving out. We have one child who will stay in our current home as we cannot afford to buy another one.

To those who are divorced or separated, did you prepare to move out before filing and giving papers to your spouse? Were you all packed up? How did you file without them knowing you were filing? How did the moving proceed? I have already started to throw away or give away much of my items I do not use anymore. My plan is to have a rental ready before filing, have my belongings ready to pack, then tell my spouse.

Any feedback on your experience is appreciated. If it matters, we do not have a hateful relationship at this point. We both agree we are no longer in love and mainly staying due to convenience.

So you are the breadwinner and your spouse is the primary caregiver parent?

If so, yes, do what you wrote.

I had a more complicated situation.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I think my spouse will be angry. He thinks our relationship is fine. I’ve told him many times it’s not, we have gone to counseling twice. He hasn’t changed. He is too focused on work. Divorce will upend his easy life, so I expect it will get ugly. I want to prepare and get organized before things get heated so it can go as smoothly as possible.

Oh, just saw this. Doesn’t sound like he’s the default parent. What age is the child that you would leave him/her with the above parent? Do you have a good nanny that you manage or an older child or teen?