What happened to this California family?

[Anonymous]

They never said they closed the forest due to this family.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I would bet money that they all died of heat stroke. Dad couldn't sweat b/c of big pack, was exerting himself, and it was 106 degrees with no shade! A human cannot survive if their core temp goes above 106 and there was no way for them to cool down. Babies are like old people, they can't thermo regulate. The baby was trapped in a backpack oven. Bet the dad didn't even realize til he took the pack off that the baby had died. The dog probably stopped moving at some point, at which time the dad sat down.

I’m following thread and this makes the most sense. It explains the positioning of sitting dad, dog at side, mom continuing to scramble up the hill. Dog and Dad (maybe carrying both baby and dig at this point) faltered, dad sat down, only then realizing baby was already dead. Mom freaked and began to run for help. Dog and parents were already near death at that point.

They took a baby in a baby carrier in 106 degree heat? WTF. Dumb people.

I don't think it was they took the baby out in that kind of heat so much as they didn't get back in time to avoid that kind of heat.

+1. It sounds like they miscalculated the length of the hike and the actual temperature.

+1

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I would bet money that they all died of heat stroke. Dad couldn't sweat b/c of big pack, was exerting himself, and it was 106 degrees with no shade! A human cannot survive if their core temp goes above 106 and there was no way for them to cool down. Babies are like old people, they can't thermo regulate. The baby was trapped in a backpack oven. Bet the dad didn't even realize til he took the pack off that the baby had died. The dog probably stopped moving at some point, at which time the dad sat down.

I’m following thread and this makes the most sense. It explains the positioning of sitting dad, dog at side, mom continuing to scramble up the hill. Dog and Dad (maybe carrying both baby and dig at this point) faltered, dad sat down, only then realizing baby was already dead. Mom freaked and began to run for help. Dog and parents were already near death at that point.

They took a baby in a baby carrier in 106 degree heat? WTF. Dumb people.

That’s what I keep coming back to. The hike made no sense on any level. And the dad had researched it. If it’s heat stroke, it’s not like they came into the hike not knowing the hazards. All of the information they needed about this adventure (the distance, topography, lack of shade, and hourly forecast) was available to them before the hike began.

In order to believe it was heat stroke, it requires us to believe they made SEVERAL significant errors in judgement BEFORE THE HIKE EVEN BEGAN:

-taking baby on a hike on such a hot day and getting such a late start
-choosing a route with no shade
-choosing such a vigorous and involved hike
-not bringing enough water
-not turning back once they realized how hard the whole thing was going to be

These were not stupid people. Not tourists. Not inexperienced hikers. They had to have known what they were getting into. And with a BABY.

I just don’t understand undertaking the hike in the first place.

NP here:
It's not usually that hot in their area. It was an unseasonably warm day. They don't live in a desert, but rather the forested foothills of the Sierra Nevadas.

I honestly think they (1) neglected to check their weather app before going out on the hike and (2) they did not fully comprehend the difficulty, elevation change, and lack of shade on the switchback trail. Their mistakes were borne out of a mix of ignorance and over-confidence.

I mean you make valid points and that would explain it. I think they’d been in a heat wave for awhile though, hadn’t they? I don’t think it was random or sudden.

I think I’m just having trouble understanding the thought process. They worked in tech….they were parents of a young baby. The kind of people who would research these things. Heck, most of my friends don’t even go to a restaurant or buy a $20 item off of Amazon without looking at reviews. How could they have been so reckless as to not have checked the weather and distance (or not to have bailed out soon into the trip)?

If they had checked their weather app that morning, the forecast was partly cloudy with a high of 97 degrees. Above average for the area but not a "heat wave." The discrepancy between the forecasted high and the 103-109 reported by the Sheriff's Dept can be explained by the fact the closest weather reporting station (Mariposa) is normally cooler than the actual location of the hike. In rural California it's very common to not have access to a precise forecast for your exact location. I think far too much blame is being placed on the couple. I suspect the the truth is far closer to what is depicted in the book/movie "The Perfect Storm" where a series of small unfortunate decisions leads to a tragic outcome.

Why would you take a baby on a hike for multiple hours even if the temperature is *only* expected to reach 97 degrees? That still seems like a terrible idea.

Why are you assuming this was their plan?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I would bet money that they all died of heat stroke. Dad couldn't sweat b/c of big pack, was exerting himself, and it was 106 degrees with no shade! A human cannot survive if their core temp goes above 106 and there was no way for them to cool down. Babies are like old people, they can't thermo regulate. The baby was trapped in a backpack oven. Bet the dad didn't even realize til he took the pack off that the baby had died. The dog probably stopped moving at some point, at which time the dad sat down.

I’m following thread and this makes the most sense. It explains the positioning of sitting dad, dog at side, mom continuing to scramble up the hill. Dog and Dad (maybe carrying both baby and dig at this point) faltered, dad sat down, only then realizing baby was already dead. Mom freaked and began to run for help. Dog and parents were already near death at that point.

They took a baby in a baby carrier in 106 degree heat? WTF. Dumb people.

I don't think it was they took the baby out in that kind of heat so much as they didn't get back in time to avoid that kind of heat.

+1. It sounds like they miscalculated the length of the hike and the actual temperature.

+1

Or…something else happened. Maybe they were planning for a 1 hr hike but their dog got off-leash.

Sh1t happens.

Stop acting like you know what happened.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I would bet money that they all died of heat stroke. Dad couldn't sweat b/c of big pack, was exerting himself, and it was 106 degrees with no shade! A human cannot survive if their core temp goes above 106 and there was no way for them to cool down. Babies are like old people, they can't thermo regulate. The baby was trapped in a backpack oven. Bet the dad didn't even realize til he took the pack off that the baby had died. The dog probably stopped moving at some point, at which time the dad sat down.

I’m following thread and this makes the most sense. It explains the positioning of sitting dad, dog at side, mom continuing to scramble up the hill. Dog and Dad (maybe carrying both baby and dig at this point) faltered, dad sat down, only then realizing baby was already dead. Mom freaked and began to run for help. Dog and parents were already near death at that point.

They took a baby in a baby carrier in 106 degree heat? WTF. Dumb people.

I don't think it was they took the baby out in that kind of heat so much as they didn't get back in time to avoid that kind of heat.

+1. It sounds like they miscalculated the length of the hike and the actual temperature.

+1

Agreed. And someone upthread mentioned they didn’t bring a lot of water considering the length of the hike. This also suggests they intended for the hike to be shorter.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:They never said they closed the forest due to this family.

Yes, they did. They closed the Savage-Lundy trail and forest due to unknown hazards that killed this family.

Sierra National Forest (SNF) issues Forest Order No. 05-15-51-21-18 Merced River Recreation Site, Road and Trail Closure.
The purpose of Forest Order No. 05-15-51-21-18 is to provide for public safety due to unknown hazards found in and near the Savage Lundy Trail, within the Bass Lake Ranger District. Designated recreation sites, roads, and trails in proximity and/or leading to this location will be off limits to public. This Order will be effective from August 29, 2021, through September 26, 2021. The SNF will consider terminating the Order early if conditions change.

https://www.fs.usda.gov/sierra/

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I would bet money that they all died of heat stroke. Dad couldn't sweat b/c of big pack, was exerting himself, and it was 106 degrees with no shade! A human cannot survive if their core temp goes above 106 and there was no way for them to cool down. Babies are like old people, they can't thermo regulate. The baby was trapped in a backpack oven. Bet the dad didn't even realize til he took the pack off that the baby had died. The dog probably stopped moving at some point, at which time the dad sat down.

I’m following thread and this makes the most sense. It explains the positioning of sitting dad, dog at side, mom continuing to scramble up the hill. Dog and Dad (maybe carrying both baby and dig at this point) faltered, dad sat down, only then realizing baby was already dead. Mom freaked and began to run for help. Dog and parents were already near death at that point.

They took a baby in a baby carrier in 106 degree heat? WTF. Dumb people.

I don't think it was they took the baby out in that kind of heat so much as they didn't get back in time to avoid that kind of heat.

+1. It sounds like they miscalculated the length of the hike and the actual temperature.

+1

Or…something else happened. Maybe they were planning for a 1 hr hike but their dog got off-leash.

Sh1t happens.

Stop acting like you know what happened.

I don’t think these pps are disagreeing with you. They are saying the hike was longer and hotter than anticipated. This may have been due to getting lost, the dog getting loose, any number of things. Regardless of what caused it they were out too long.

[Anonymous]

There is nothing there about this family, sorry.

[Anonymous]

I am surprised that the toxicology is taking this long especially for such a high profile case. Am I just naïve?

[Anonymous]

They probably closed it because this story is getting a lot of attention and they don't want rubberneckers and armchair detectives going out there and getting themselves into danger too.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Great, ya’ll have really cracked the case. The thing I still don’t understand is how they all died of heatstroke when investigators clearly stated the cause of death was not obvious.

U think a sign appears on the body saying "cause of death heat stroke"? They are eliminating other possible factors, most likely. From the internet: "the autopsy findings of heat stroke may be minimal and are non-specific, particularly if the survival interval is short."

Well, yes. There's a reason that they're looking at unusual causes of death. There's something about the bodies that points to that.

The evidence of heat stroke may be minimal but it's not unobvious, especially on a hot day when that would be the most usual cause.

And you've made this unfounded point numerous times. Heat stroke isn't that obvious and they are doing their due diligence. You keep making the same stupid baseless comment again and again.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:They probably closed it because this story is getting a lot of attention and they don't want rubberneckers and armchair detectives going out there and getting themselves into danger too.

Umm, it's a trail in a national forest. They're used to having lots of people coming through.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:They probably closed it because this story is getting a lot of attention and they don't want rubberneckers and armchair detectives going out there and getting themselves into danger too.

Umm, it's a trail in a national forest. They're used to having lots of people coming through.

Being familiar with the area I doubt this trail gets much use at all.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:They probably closed it because this story is getting a lot of attention and they don't want rubberneckers and armchair detectives going out there and getting themselves into danger too.

Umm, it's a trail in a national forest. They're used to having lots of people coming through.

Being familiar with the area I doubt this trail gets much use at all.

Well, it does seem to be out of season right now. But they aren't going to close a trail, remote or otherwise, to lookie-loos. That's not how it works.

[Anonymous]

Everyone who is saying that it should be obvious that they died of heat stroke if that was the case, you're forgetting that their bodies baked in the relentless heat for 24 hours before they were found. The decomposition process is accelerated in high temperatures. I think people are picturing a far different picture than what the medical examiner is dealing with.