That Brock Allen Turner is a dirtbag

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As far as blaming the woman ... Look at it this way: if someone robbed her, took her purse and jewelry, etc. while she was passed out, would she be blamed? Of course not. This has to do with a man not being able to control himself sexually and blaming the woman for arrousing him. This line of thinking is so old fashioned it's biblical in origin.

Not so fast.

It's not victim blaming when you say, "What was she thinking?"

If you are too drunk to recognize dangerous situations and protect yourself, then YOU have put yourself in harms way. You can't rely on strangers to protect you. Sometimes they will, sometimes they won't. Drunk people aren't just rape victims. They fall off of balconies at spring break, and call overboard on booze cruises. They get killed crossing coastal highway in Ocean City. They get mugged. They drive drunk and kill people.

What are you teaching your daughters? To be vigilant, or to simply have fun and expect strangers to keep them safe?

To be clear: I'm not justifying rape. I'm not defending rapists. Rather, I'm emphasizing the importance of taking precautions and being in control.

All of these examples you list are things the drunk person did to themselves. I was talking about someone assaulting the drunk person and then blaming the drunk person.

Did the drunk person mug themselves?

Look, if you want to get shitfaced and simply assume that all the strangers around you at the party/bar/walk home are your people who won't harm you, that's fine...it's like Russian roulette, but that's your call.

But don't call us out for blaming the victim when all we are doing is pointing out reckless behavior. As we all know, reckless behavior often has bad consequences.

I am calling you out...because like I said, this only seems to happen with sexual assault. For instance, if the girl was robbed and murdered, I don't think anyone would blame her. The problem is that with date rape and campus rape, people think the man just couldn't control himself around the drunk temptress. Not his fault.

I'm calling you out for being dense.

If my daughter was murdered because she was shitfaced and walked home alone in the middle of the night, I most certainly would be furious that she did such a reckless thing. Most people would. Most people would recognize the tragedy, but they would also recognize how the situation made the victim a target. That doesn't justify the murder. It just makes people understand how it happened: oh, she was drunk and alone at 2am...not smart...I would never do that, etc. That sort of rationalization makes people feel safer---knowing that they aren't likely to get murdered walking down Route 1 at noon, but realizing that stumbling home alone from at frat party at 2am might increase the odds.

Not victim blaming.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:There is a psychology behind victim blaming. It is to make oneself feel empowered and safe: I would never put myself in that situation. Therefore, nothing bad will ever happen to me.

Thanks, Dr. Of Nothing.

OR....we can see bad things happen to others and we try, as much as we can, to not put ourselves into that situation, if possible. We know that we cannot control everything and everyone, but gosh darn it, we can TRY to be safe.

And maybe we have even put ourselves in that situation before and got lucky. And we know that we might not get so lucky if there is a next time.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As far as blaming the woman ... Look at it this way: if someone robbed her, took her purse and jewelry, etc. while she was passed out, would she be blamed? Of course not. This has to do with a man not being able to control himself sexually and blaming the woman for arrousing him. This line of thinking is so old fashioned it's biblical in origin.

Not so fast.

It's not victim blaming when you say, "What was she thinking?"

If you are too drunk to recognize dangerous situations and protect yourself, then YOU have put yourself in harms way. You can't rely on strangers to protect you. Sometimes they will, sometimes they won't. Drunk people aren't just rape victims. They fall off of balconies at spring break, and call overboard on booze cruises. They get killed crossing coastal highway in Ocean City. They get mugged. They drive drunk and kill people.

What are you teaching your daughters? To be vigilant, or to simply have fun and expect strangers to keep them safe?

To be clear: I'm not justifying rape. I'm not defending rapists. Rather, I'm emphasizing the importance of taking precautions and being in control.

All of these examples you list are things the drunk person did to themselves. I was talking about someone assaulting the drunk person and then blaming the drunk person.

Did the drunk person mug themselves?

Look, if you want to get shitfaced and simply assume that all the strangers around you at the party/bar/walk home are your people who won't harm you, that's fine...it's like Russian roulette, but that's your call.

But don't call us out for blaming the victim when all we are doing is pointing out reckless behavior. As we all know, reckless behavior often has bad consequences.

I am calling you out...because like I said, this only seems to happen with sexual assault. For instance, if the girl was robbed and murdered, I don't think anyone would blame her. The problem is that with date rape and campus rape, people think the man just couldn't control himself around the drunk temptress. Not his fault.

I'm calling you out for being dense.

If my daughter was murdered because she was shitfaced and walked home alone in the middle of the night, I most certainly would be furious that she did such a reckless thing. Most people would. Most people would recognize the tragedy, but they would also recognize how the situation made the victim a target. That doesn't justify the murder. It just makes people understand how it happened: oh, she was drunk and alone at 2am...not smart...I would never do that, etc. That sort of rationalization makes people feel safer---knowing that they aren't likely to get murdered walking down Route 1 at noon, but realizing that stumbling home alone from at frat party at 2am might increase the odds.

Not victim blaming.

Classic victim blaming.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:There is a psychology behind victim blaming. It is to make oneself feel empowered and safe: I would never put myself in that situation. Therefore, nothing bad will ever happen to me.

Correct. But you make it sound like a bad thing by calling it victim blaming---when it really isn't.

It's a teachable moment type thing. It's an awareness that you need to be careful and that it's dangerous to be drunk in public/around strangers.

It's not her fault she was raped. Period.

But let's get real: she wouldn't have been raped had she not blacked out. It's not her fault that she was raped because she blacked out. But everyone should recognize that blacking out is dangerous.

That's the bottom line: blacking out is dangerous...so try to avoid it.

I'm curious what you people are teaching your kids about safety before sending them off into the world.

[Anonymous]

Of course we teach our daughters to not get drunk and walk alone in a dangerous neighborhood....but if she does make this mistake and is assaulted, the person who harmed her is 100% to blame.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There is a psychology behind victim blaming. It is to make oneself feel empowered and safe: I would never put myself in that situation. Therefore, nothing bad will ever happen to me.

Thanks, Dr. Of Nothing.

OR....we can see bad things happen to others and we try, as much as we can, to not put ourselves into that situation, if possible. We know that we cannot control everything and everyone, but gosh darn it, we can TRY to be safe.

And maybe we have even put ourselves in that situation before and got lucky. And we know that we might not get so lucky if there is a next time.

Yep.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:re the photograph: the only evidence presented by the DA was that a message was found in brock's phone the night of the incident stating "who's tits are those?" it was a group message using the app groupme, so could have been a response to anyone participating in the group message. no photograph of tits was found on brock's phone or anyone else's phone.
the man observed standing over the victim using cell phone light could not have been brock. brock went from being with the victim, to being tackled by the swedes, to being in police custody. it could have been one of the swedes as someone suggested, or another passerby.
i encourage all you who would crucify brock to peruse the court documents, not just headlines and few statements published by the DA. santa clara county released 400+ pages of court documents last night: http://www.paloaltoonline.com/news/2016/06/10/county-releases-brock-turner-court-documents. palo alto online + stanford daily had reporters in the courtroom throughout the trial and are another legitimate source info. the DA's office was on a crusade to make an example out of brock and draw media attention to the case no matter what. the DA even shirked their ethical duties by bringing rape charges at first when they knew the evidence wasn't there to support, just to chum the waters so to speak.

BrAT could have taken the photo before the Swedes arrived. But we don't really know either way. Someone on the swim team posted a photo of someone's breasts that night.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There is a psychology behind victim blaming. It is to make oneself feel empowered and safe: I would never put myself in that situation. Therefore, nothing bad will ever happen to me.

Thanks, Dr. Of Nothing.

OR....we can see bad things happen to others and we try, as much as we can, to not put ourselves into that situation, if possible. We know that we cannot control everything and everyone, but gosh darn it, we can TRY to be safe.

And maybe we have even put ourselves in that situation before and got lucky. And we know that we might not get so lucky if there is a next time.

Psy.D.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As far as blaming the woman ... Look at it this way: if someone robbed her, took her purse and jewelry, etc. while she was passed out, would she be blamed? Of course not. This has to do with a man not being able to control himself sexually and blaming the woman for arrousing him. This line of thinking is so old fashioned it's biblical in origin.

Not so fast.

It's not victim blaming when you say, "What was she thinking?"

If you are too drunk to recognize dangerous situations and protect yourself, then YOU have put yourself in harms way. You can't rely on strangers to protect you. Sometimes they will, sometimes they won't. Drunk people aren't just rape victims. They fall off of balconies at spring break, and call overboard on booze cruises. They get killed crossing coastal highway in Ocean City. They get mugged. They drive drunk and kill people.

What are you teaching your daughters? To be vigilant, or to simply have fun and expect strangers to keep them safe?

To be clear: I'm not justifying rape. I'm not defending rapists. Rather, I'm emphasizing the importance of taking precautions and being in control.

All of these examples you list are things the drunk person did to themselves. I was talking about someone assaulting the drunk person and then blaming the drunk person.

Did the drunk person mug themselves?

Look, if you want to get shitfaced and simply assume that all the strangers around you at the party/bar/walk home are your people who won't harm you, that's fine...it's like Russian roulette, but that's your call.

But don't call us out for blaming the victim when all we are doing is pointing out reckless behavior. As we all know, reckless behavior often has bad consequences.

I am calling you out...because like I said, this only seems to happen with sexual assault. For instance, if the girl was robbed and murdered, I don't think anyone would blame her. The problem is that with date rape and campus rape, people think the man just couldn't control himself around the drunk temptress. Not his fault.

I'm calling you out for being dense.

If my daughter was murdered because she was shitfaced and walked home alone in the middle of the night, I most certainly would be furious that she did such a reckless thing. Most people would. Most people would recognize the tragedy, but they would also recognize how the situation made the victim a target. That doesn't justify the murder. It just makes people understand how it happened: oh, she was drunk and alone at 2am...not smart...I would never do that, etc. That sort of rationalization makes people feel safer---knowing that they aren't likely to get murdered walking down Route 1 at noon, but realizing that stumbling home alone from at frat party at 2am might increase the odds.

Not victim blaming.

Classic victim blaming.

Classic idiot throwing around terms (s)he doesn't understand.

[Anonymous]

And, by the way, he had an extensive history of alcohol and drug use in high school. And there was testimony from another woman that he had gotten aggressive with her the prior week. 20 minutes of action? Bullshit. More like a pattern of this behavior. https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/grade-point/wp/2016/06/10/court-records-shed-more-light-on-the-brock-turner-sexual-assault-case/

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There is a psychology behind victim blaming. It is to make oneself feel empowered and safe: I would never put myself in that situation. Therefore, nothing bad will ever happen to me.

Thanks, Dr. Of Nothing.

OR....we can see bad things happen to others and we try, as much as we can, to not put ourselves into that situation, if possible. We know that we cannot control everything and everyone, but gosh darn it, we can TRY to be safe.

And maybe we have even put ourselves in that situation before and got lucky. And we know that we might not get so lucky if there is a next time.

Psy.D.

okey dokey!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Of course we teach our daughters to not get drunk and walk alone in a dangerous neighborhood....but if she does make this mistake and is assaulted, the person who harmed her is 100% to blame.

No clue why some of you are hung up on "blame."

Nobody is blaming the victim when we comment on her behavior...we are merely commenting on her behavior, that's all. Try to compartmentalise the two issues we are discussing: rape (a horrible crime), and young women getting wasted at frat parties (befuddling behavior given the media attention surrounding rape culture on campus). See?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As far as blaming the woman ... Look at it this way: if someone robbed her, took her purse and jewelry, etc. while she was passed out, would she be blamed? Of course not. This has to do with a man not being able to control himself sexually and blaming the woman for arrousing him. This line of thinking is so old fashioned it's biblical in origin.

Not so fast.

It's not victim blaming when you say, "What was she thinking?"

If you are too drunk to recognize dangerous situations and protect yourself, then YOU have put yourself in harms way. You can't rely on strangers to protect you. Sometimes they will, sometimes they won't. Drunk people aren't just rape victims. They fall off of balconies at spring break, and call overboard on booze cruises. They get killed crossing coastal highway in Ocean City. They get mugged. They drive drunk and kill people.

What are you teaching your daughters? To be vigilant, or to simply have fun and expect strangers to keep them safe?

To be clear: I'm not justifying rape. I'm not defending rapists. Rather, I'm emphasizing the importance of taking precautions and being in control.

All of these examples you list are things the drunk person did to themselves. I was talking about someone assaulting the drunk person and then blaming the drunk person.

Did the drunk person mug themselves?

Look, if you want to get shitfaced and simply assume that all the strangers around you at the party/bar/walk home are your people who won't harm you, that's fine...it's like Russian roulette, but that's your call.

But don't call us out for blaming the victim when all we are doing is pointing out reckless behavior. As we all know, reckless behavior often has bad consequences.

I am calling you out...because like I said, this only seems to happen with sexual assault. For instance, if the girl was robbed and murdered, I don't think anyone would blame her. The problem is that with date rape and campus rape, people think the man just couldn't control himself around the drunk temptress. Not his fault.

Not true at all. We've called out friends all of the time who've done incredibly stupid, and sometimes criminal things, when they were drunk. In fact, we hold back less when something as sensitive as rape happens.

There is drinking too much. Bad.
And there is raping someone. Very bad. (or it could be stealing something. breaking and entering somewhere. etc.)

We know there are multiple factors here. Perhaps if you are so so SO sensitive to rape you might completely overlook other factors, like drinking. But it's still there, even if you yourself want to forget about it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As far as blaming the woman ... Look at it this way: if someone robbed her, took her purse and jewelry, etc. while she was passed out, would she be blamed? Of course not. This has to do with a man not being able to control himself sexually and blaming the woman for arrousing him. This line of thinking is so old fashioned it's biblical in origin.

Not so fast.

It's not victim blaming when you say, "What was she thinking?"

If you are too drunk to recognize dangerous situations and protect yourself, then YOU have put yourself in harms way. You can't rely on strangers to protect you. Sometimes they will, sometimes they won't. Drunk people aren't just rape victims. They fall off of balconies at spring break, and call overboard on booze cruises. They get killed crossing coastal highway in Ocean City. They get mugged. They drive drunk and kill people.

What are you teaching your daughters? To be vigilant, or to simply have fun and expect strangers to keep them safe?

To be clear: I'm not justifying rape. I'm not defending rapists. Rather, I'm emphasizing the importance of taking precautions and being in control.

All of these examples you list are things the drunk person did to themselves. I was talking about someone assaulting the drunk person and then blaming the drunk person.

Did the drunk person mug themselves?

Look, if you want to get shitfaced and simply assume that all the strangers around you at the party/bar/walk home are your people who won't harm you, that's fine...it's like Russian roulette, but that's your call.

But don't call us out for blaming the victim when all we are doing is pointing out reckless behavior. As we all know, reckless behavior often has bad consequences.

I am calling you out...because like I said, this only seems to happen with sexual assault. For instance, if the girl was robbed and murdered, I don't think anyone would blame her. The problem is that with date rape and campus rape, people think the man just couldn't control himself around the drunk temptress. Not his fault.

Not true at all. We've called out friends all of the time who've done incredibly stupid, and sometimes criminal things, when they were drunk. In fact, we hold back less when something as sensitive as rape happens.

There is drinking too much. Bad.
And there is raping someone. Very bad. (or it could be stealing something. breaking and entering somewhere. etc.)

We know there are multiple factors here. Perhaps if you are so so SO sensitive to rape you might completely overlook other factors, like drinking. But it's still there, even if you yourself want to forget about it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:/\ ...and blaming the drunk person only seems to happen in cases of sexual assault.

?

What? Not true.

First, it's not victim blaming to point out how reckless it is to black out anywhere. It's a teachable moment IMHO.

If a drunk passes out and gets robbed, people would have the same reaction: sucks that you were robbed---robbery is a crime---you might not have been robbed had you not been passed out/walking down the dark alley/walking across the campus alone at 2am. Rape, robbery, falling in a ditch, whatever. A person's actions usually play a role. Pointing that out isn't victim blaming though. It's just a fact.

Yes, you are victim blaming.

If I'm sh*t faced drunk at a bar and I tell a guy that he can have access to the money in my purse. I smile and open my purse and show him the money. And he happily takes my money and buys himself dinner, appetizers and drinks. I wake up in the morning to find my money all gone. I'm not sure what happened to my money. Since I don't remember what happened to my money that means that it must have been stolen. Right?