College Football--Big Ten Expansion

[Anonymous]

Again, what is the point of paying an enormous exit fee of $120 million to $130 million if you walk away naked ?

[Anonymous]

Interesting article about replenishing the Pac-12 with new teams: SMU, Tulane, Rice, USF, Memphis, San Diego State, Air Force, Colorado State & "others".

https://sportskeeda.com/college-football/news-stanford-call-shots-possible-pac-12-expansion-several-teams-list-reports

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:There is a lot of non-edited discussion going on that misses critical language so there is no use debating this further as we, or at least I, do not have a copy of the agreement(s) between FSU & the ACC as well as the ACC and ESPN.

Maybe & hopefully we will learn more by the end of business on Tuesday.

We are not going to resolve anything among ourselves.

What are you talking about, the GoR has always been public https://wwwcache.wralsportsfan.com/asset/colleges/ncsu/2022/07/05/20361238/ACC-Grant-of-Rights-1-DMID1-5vgd1w2if.pdf

Yes, now recall that the GOR document was linked earlier in the thread.

During the recent discussion in this thread no specific reference was included to any part of the agreement. Not sure what FSU attorneys will argue, but any argument will refer to specific provisions of the agreement.

What do you see in the GOR that would let a school out?

I do not know enough to offer any specific insight.

I would like to read the Notre Dame ACC agreement to look for any inconsistencies with the GOR document signed by FSU because the GOR document shared in this thread has a provision regarding all future members.

So many legal theories to consider. Best to leave it to the lawyers who have been working on this full time for months.

I guess how would an agreement with a different party about a different subject have any bearing on the GOR?

Read the GOR. It was designed for what is happening right now. Really tough to get away from it. That is why FSU will not do anything tomorrow. They are flat stuck.

Obvious & appropriate questions.

I would like to know more. I would like to see contracts from other conferences. I would like to know about authorization under Florida to contract.

I would like to know a lot more. And I do not know what I might find or if it could be used.

My point is that I do not know enough specifics to offer answers, but I do know enough to ask questions & seek out information.

If they could have gotten out, they would have years ago. The same applies to Clemson. They do this same song and dance every year

Clemson hasn’t been vocal or frantic like FSU. FSU is looking stupid for signing the GOR…. Frantic and undignified under pressure… and untrustworthy towards its partners. I used to think they were B1G ten material but no more. They are poison.

2023 hasn't been kind to FSU. In addition to this struggle, their basketball team failed to make the NCAA tournament. FSU was also passed over for AAU membership this summer, which the B1G at least claims to care about.
https://www.tallahassee.com/story/opinion/2023/06/15/aau-selects-usf-in-stunning-rebuke-of-fsu-where-is-the-accountability/70318114007/

[Anonymous]

https://pittsburghsportsnow.com/2023/08/14/report-florida-state-will-not-vote-on-acc-exit-by-tuesdays-deadline/

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There is a lot of non-edited discussion going on that misses critical language so there is no use debating this further as we, or at least I, do not have a copy of the agreement(s) between FSU & the ACC as well as the ACC and ESPN.

Maybe & hopefully we will learn more by the end of business on Tuesday.

We are not going to resolve anything among ourselves.

What are you talking about, the GoR has always been public https://wwwcache.wralsportsfan.com/asset/colleges/ncsu/2022/07/05/20361238/ACC-Grant-of-Rights-1-DMID1-5vgd1w2if.pdf

Yes, now recall that the GOR document was linked earlier in the thread.

During the recent discussion in this thread no specific reference was included to any part of the agreement. Not sure what FSU attorneys will argue, but any argument will refer to specific provisions of the agreement.

What do you see in the GOR that would let a school out?

I do not know enough to offer any specific insight.

I would like to read the Notre Dame ACC agreement to look for any inconsistencies with the GOR document signed by FSU because the GOR document shared in this thread has a provision regarding all future members.

So many legal theories to consider. Best to leave it to the lawyers who have been working on this full time for months.

I guess how would an agreement with a different party about a different subject have any bearing on the GOR?

Read the GOR. It was designed for what is happening right now. Really tough to get away from it. That is why FSU will not do anything tomorrow. They are flat stuck.

Obvious & appropriate questions.

I would like to know more. I would like to see contracts from other conferences. I would like to know about authorization under Florida to contract.

I would like to know a lot more. And I do not know what I might find or if it could be used.

My point is that I do not know enough specifics to offer answers, but I do know enough to ask questions & seek out information.

If they could have gotten out, they would have years ago. The same applies to Clemson. They do this same song and dance every year

Clemson hasn’t been vocal or frantic like FSU. FSU is looking stupid for signing the GOR…. Frantic and undignified under pressure… and untrustworthy towards its partners. I used to think they were B1G ten material but no more. They are poison.

2023 hasn't been kind to FSU. In addition to this struggle, their basketball team failed to make the NCAA tournament. FSU was also passed over for AAU membership this summer, which the B1G at least claims to care about.
https://www.tallahassee.com/story/opinion/2023/06/15/aau-selects-usf-in-stunning-rebuke-of-fsu-where-is-the-accountability/70318114007/

They're are slipping fast and they know it. Bobby Bowden took a former teachers college and turned them into a national power house. Jimbo got a title and then fell apart and they've been steadily declining ever since. At this rate, by the time the GoR expires, they may be looking at the Sun Belt

[Anonymous]

(OP here)

Regarding Big Ten Conference expansion, Stanford and Notre Dame still make the most sense. And, yes, I understand and respect that Notre Dame is not yet ready to follow its true path to its final destination, but the time is now for Stanford to join/be admitted to the Big Ten Conference.

While the TV overlords may prefer FSU--and FSU would attract viewers--the Big Ten Conference is about more than just football. And this is a significant difference between the Big Ten Conference and the SEC.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:(OP here)

Regarding Big Ten Conference expansion, Stanford and Notre Dame still make the most sense. And, yes, I understand and respect that Notre Dame is not yet ready to follow its true path to its final destination, but the time is now for Stanford to join/be admitted to the Big Ten Conference.

While the TV overlords may prefer FSU--and FSU would attract viewers--the Big Ten Conference is about more than just football. And this is a significant difference between the Big Ten Conference and the SEC.

Stanford has a huge endowment but wants poorer schools to get a lower payout. Stanford could probably generate 20-30 million in TV revenue so it should get ratio to the 100 million members will get in 2024.

They should always be at 20-30 percent the payout of other members since that’s what they generate and they have abundant resources to afford it. That’s their own progressive ideology as well.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:(OP here)

Regarding Big Ten Conference expansion, Stanford and Notre Dame still make the most sense. And, yes, I understand and respect that Notre Dame is not yet ready to follow its true path to its final destination, but the time is now for Stanford to join/be admitted to the Big Ten Conference.

While the TV overlords may prefer FSU--and FSU would attract viewers--the Big Ten Conference is about more than just football. And this is a significant difference between the Big Ten Conference and the SEC.

Stanford has a huge endowment but wants poorer schools to get a lower payout. Stanford could probably generate 20-30 million in TV revenue so it should get ratio to the 100 million members will get in 2024.

They should always be at 20-30 percent the payout of other members since that’s what they generate and they have abundant resources to afford it. That’s their own progressive ideology as well.

This is not correct.

Stanford has offered to take less than a 50% payout for the remainder of the current Big Ten Conference TV media contract--runs through 2030 so Stanford has offered to take substantially less than all other Big Ten Conference member schools for 6 years.

[Anonymous]

Big Ten Presidents and administrators overwhelmingly want Stanford, but they have to get consent from the TV overlords who have a much more narrow focus.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:(OP here)

Regarding Big Ten Conference expansion, Stanford and Notre Dame still make the most sense. And, yes, I understand and respect that Notre Dame is not yet ready to follow its true path to its final destination, but the time is now for Stanford to join/be admitted to the Big Ten Conference.

While the TV overlords may prefer FSU--and FSU would attract viewers--the Big Ten Conference is about more than just football. And this is a significant difference between the Big Ten Conference and the SEC.

Stanford has a huge endowment but wants poorer schools to get a lower payout. Stanford could probably generate 20-30 million in TV revenue so it should get ratio to the 100 million members will get in 2024.

They should always be at 20-30 percent the payout of other members since that’s what they generate and they have abundant resources to afford it. That’s their own progressive ideology as well.

This is not correct.

Stanford has offered to take less than a 50% payout for the remainder of the current Big Ten Conference TV media contract--runs through 2030 so Stanford has offered to take substantially less than all other Big Ten Conference member schools for 6 years.

It needs to be forever. The other schools need the money more. Stanford doesn’t think it’s athletics are important enough for its massive endowment why should other schools lower their annual income for Stanford’s athletic dept?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:(OP here)

Regarding Big Ten Conference expansion, Stanford and Notre Dame still make the most sense. And, yes, I understand and respect that Notre Dame is not yet ready to follow its true path to its final destination, but the time is now for Stanford to join/be admitted to the Big Ten Conference.

While the TV overlords may prefer FSU--and FSU would attract viewers--the Big Ten Conference is about more than just football. And this is a significant difference between the Big Ten Conference and the SEC.

Stanford has a huge endowment but wants poorer schools to get a lower payout. Stanford could probably generate 20-30 million in TV revenue so it should get ratio to the 100 million members will get in 2024.

They should always be at 20-30 percent the payout of other members since that’s what they generate and they have abundant resources to afford it. That’s their own progressive ideology as well.

This is not correct.

Stanford has offered to take less than a 50% payout for the remainder of the current Big Ten Conference TV media contract--runs through 2030 so Stanford has offered to take substantially less than all other Big Ten Conference member schools for 6 years.

It needs to be forever. The other schools need the money more. Stanford doesn’t think it’s athletics are important enough for its massive endowment why should other schools lower their annual income for Stanford’s athletic dept?

You raise an interesting point that leads to the issue as to whether or not endowments above a certain level should be subject to taxation.

I disagree with your exact stance, but wonder whether a probationary period of 6 years is something that you would support. Gives Stanford time to assess the Big Ten Conference and gives Stanford time to build a football program that would place it among the top half of the conference. Plus, once Big ten universities get accustomed to working with Stanford on research & other academic projects, then it is likely that full membership with a full share payout would be approved.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:(OP here)

Regarding Big Ten Conference expansion, Stanford and Notre Dame still make the most sense. And, yes, I understand and respect that Notre Dame is not yet ready to follow its true path to its final destination, but the time is now for Stanford to join/be admitted to the Big Ten Conference.

While the TV overlords may prefer FSU--and FSU would attract viewers--the Big Ten Conference is about more than just football. And this is a significant difference between the Big Ten Conference and the SEC.

Stanford has a huge endowment but wants poorer schools to get a lower payout. Stanford could probably generate 20-30 million in TV revenue so it should get ratio to the 100 million members will get in 2024.

They should always be at 20-30 percent the payout of other members since that’s what they generate and they have abundant resources to afford it. That’s their own progressive ideology as well.

Stanford is NOT Notre Dame or any of the top/middle B1G schools in terms of eyeballs. It is a relatively small, private school with a corresponding small alumni and fan following where the football team has usually played second fiddle to an apathetic student body, where the joke "marching" band is the big attraction. There is no planet where Stanford is worth the money from a conference. The fact that they have been left behind with Cal is the tell. If it were a hot property, it would have been snatched up.

[Anonymous]

(OP again)

Discussion about Stanford's candidacy for Big Ten Conference membership should not overshadow that incredible additions that the conference has made. USC, UCLA, U Oregon, and especially U Washington are all stellar additions to the conference. Three are academic powerhouses--especially U Washington--and one is improving.

With the addition of Stanford, the Big Ten Conference would further entrench its standing as the leading university research consortium in the world. Add in Cal and the academic and research stature of the Big Ten rises even higher.

The Big Ten Conference has an embarrassment of riches in terms of opportunity; it needs to recognize this, acknowledge this, and accept it. This is not the time for fear of success to direct the conference's actions or inactions.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:(OP here)

Regarding Big Ten Conference expansion, Stanford and Notre Dame still make the most sense. And, yes, I understand and respect that Notre Dame is not yet ready to follow its true path to its final destination, but the time is now for Stanford to join/be admitted to the Big Ten Conference.

While the TV overlords may prefer FSU--and FSU would attract viewers--the Big Ten Conference is about more than just football. And this is a significant difference between the Big Ten Conference and the SEC.

Stanford has a huge endowment but wants poorer schools to get a lower payout. Stanford could probably generate 20-30 million in TV revenue so it should get ratio to the 100 million members will get in 2024.

They should always be at 20-30 percent the payout of other members since that’s what they generate and they have abundant resources to afford it. That’s their own progressive ideology as well.

This is not correct.

Stanford has offered to take less than a 50% payout for the remainder of the current Big Ten Conference TV media contract--runs through 2030 so Stanford has offered to take substantially less than all other Big Ten Conference member schools for 6 years.

2030 is going to be when subscribers are important than carriage fees and the last thing the big 10 wants is more deadweight

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:(OP here)

Regarding Big Ten Conference expansion, Stanford and Notre Dame still make the most sense. And, yes, I understand and respect that Notre Dame is not yet ready to follow its true path to its final destination, but the time is now for Stanford to join/be admitted to the Big Ten Conference.

While the TV overlords may prefer FSU--and FSU would attract viewers--the Big Ten Conference is about more than just football. And this is a significant difference between the Big Ten Conference and the SEC.

Stanford has a huge endowment but wants poorer schools to get a lower payout. Stanford could probably generate 20-30 million in TV revenue so it should get ratio to the 100 million members will get in 2024.

They should always be at 20-30 percent the payout of other members since that’s what they generate and they have abundant resources to afford it. That’s their own progressive ideology as well.

Stanford is NOT Notre Dame or any of the top/middle B1G schools in terms of eyeballs. It is a relatively small, private school with a corresponding small alumni and fan following where the football team has usually played second fiddle to an apathetic student body, where the joke "marching" band is the big attraction. There is no planet where Stanford is worth the money from a conference. The fact that they have been left behind with Cal is the tell. If it were a hot property, it would have been snatched up.

Okay. It is understood that your focus is solely on Stanford's football viewership. Fine. But the Big Ten Conference is much more than football--it is not the SEC.

Big Ten Universities are academic research institutions first and foremost and NFL training grounds as a distant second.