What happened to this California family?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Great, ya’ll have really cracked the case. The thing I still don’t understand is how they all died of heatstroke when investigators clearly stated the cause of death was not obvious.

U think a sign appears on the body saying "cause of death heat stroke"? They are eliminating other possible factors, most likely. From the internet: "the autopsy findings of heat stroke may be minimal and are non-specific, particularly if the survival interval is short."

Well, yes. There's a reason that they're looking at unusual causes of death. There's something about the bodies that points to that.

The evidence of heat stroke may be minimal but it's not unobvious, especially on a hot day when that would be the most usual cause.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Great, ya’ll have really cracked the case. The thing I still don’t understand is how they all died of heatstroke when investigators clearly stated the cause of death was not obvious.

U think a sign appears on the body saying "cause of death heat stroke"? They are eliminating other possible factors, most likely. From the internet: "the autopsy findings of heat stroke may be minimal and are non-specific, particularly if the survival interval is short."

Well, yes. There's a reason that they're looking at unusual causes of death. There's something about the bodies that points to that.

The evidence of heat stroke may be minimal but it's not unobvious, especially on a hot day when that would be the most usual cause.

okay. When the unheralded report comes out no one will likely even notice. It will likely contain vague med speak and point to ambient temps and the lack of toxins/etc. People die in their freaking backyards doing yardwork of heatstroke, but these jokers thought it was cool to either not check the weather, or purposefully took their little baby on a hike in 106 degree heat. They were negligent from the outset. You don't need to be an expert to see that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Great, ya’ll have really cracked the case. The thing I still don’t understand is how they all died of heatstroke when investigators clearly stated the cause of death was not obvious.

U think a sign appears on the body saying "cause of death heat stroke"? They are eliminating other possible factors, most likely. From the internet: "the autopsy findings of heat stroke may be minimal and are non-specific, particularly if the survival interval is short."

Well, yes. There's a reason that they're looking at unusual causes of death. There's something about the bodies that points to that.

The evidence of heat stroke may be minimal but it's not unobvious, especially on a hot day when that would be the most usual cause.

okay. When the unheralded report comes out no one will likely even notice. It will likely contain vague med speak and point to ambient temps and the lack of toxins/etc. People die in their freaking backyards doing yardwork of heatstroke, but these jokers thought it was cool to either not check the weather, or purposefully took their little baby on a hike in 106 degree heat. They were negligent from the outset. You don't need to be an expert to see that.

You are making a lot of assumptions about what happened so you can sh1t on them.

Why is that?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Great, ya’ll have really cracked the case. The thing I still don’t understand is how they all died of heatstroke when investigators clearly stated the cause of death was not obvious.

U think a sign appears on the body saying "cause of death heat stroke"? They are eliminating other possible factors, most likely. From the internet: "the autopsy findings of heat stroke may be minimal and are non-specific, particularly if the survival interval is short."

Well, yes. There's a reason that they're looking at unusual causes of death. There's something about the bodies that points to that.

The evidence of heat stroke may be minimal but it's not unobvious, especially on a hot day when that would be the most usual cause.

okay. When the unheralded report comes out no one will likely even notice. It will likely contain vague med speak and point to ambient temps and the lack of toxins/etc. People die in their freaking backyards doing yardwork of heatstroke, but these jokers thought it was cool to either not check the weather, or purposefully took their little baby on a hike in 106 degree heat. They were negligent from the outset. You don't need to be an expert to see that.

You are making a lot of assumptions about what happened so you can sh1t on them.

Why is that?

I'm not assuming that they voluntarily went hiking. Or do you believe they were forced?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Great, ya’ll have really cracked the case. The thing I still don’t understand is how they all died of heatstroke when investigators clearly stated the cause of death was not obvious.

U think a sign appears on the body saying "cause of death heat stroke"? They are eliminating other possible factors, most likely. From the internet: "the autopsy findings of heat stroke may be minimal and are non-specific, particularly if the survival interval is short."

Well, yes. There's a reason that they're looking at unusual causes of death. There's something about the bodies that points to that.

The evidence of heat stroke may be minimal but it's not unobvious, especially on a hot day when that would be the most usual cause.

okay. When the unheralded report comes out no one will likely even notice. It will likely contain vague med speak and point to ambient temps and the lack of toxins/etc. People die in their freaking backyards doing yardwork of heatstroke, but these jokers thought it was cool to either not check the weather, or purposefully took their little baby on a hike in 106 degree heat. They were negligent from the outset. You don't need to be an expert to see that.

They closed the forest due to the hazards that killed this family.

That's not negligence. That's just tragedy.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Great, ya’ll have really cracked the case. The thing I still don’t understand is how they all died of heatstroke when investigators clearly stated the cause of death was not obvious.

U think a sign appears on the body saying "cause of death heat stroke"? They are eliminating other possible factors, most likely. From the internet: "the autopsy findings of heat stroke may be minimal and are non-specific, particularly if the survival interval is short."

Well, yes. There's a reason that they're looking at unusual causes of death. There's something about the bodies that points to that.

The evidence of heat stroke may be minimal but it's not unobvious, especially on a hot day when that would be the most usual cause.

They are looking at unusual causes because there is nothing obvious. Not because there is something unusual.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As a mom, if your baby died and your husband was dying, would you leave the dead baby to go for aid? I’m not sure I would be rationale enough to leave them and may take their corpse but that could have been the scene here.

This mom was quite petite. The baby carrier looks big and heavy. She might not have wanted to leave the baby behind but may not have had a choice. She didn’t have the strength to carry it. I honestly think she wasn’t thinking coherently by then from grief, panic and heat exhaustion. The only cell phone mentioned was with the husband and so even if she took off, she didn’t have a cell phone on her. She didn’t think to get his cell phone. It’s all very sad.

The high end hiking carriers are not actually that heavy. Less than 10 pounds. You think the mom couldn’t carry 30 lbs (20 for baby and 10 for pack) if she had to?

No, I don’t. That’s a third of her weight, bulky as f, in 103F heat, on uneven terrain and over 1.5 miles away. Impossible.

Generously, a mile would take her 20 minutes to walk in normal conditions. So 30-minutes for a mile-and-a-half. Now add a 30-pound weight to her back, it would probably take her at least forty-five minutes.

Which there’s no way she could sustain a march that long with that weight.

Agree...what was left of the hike was brutal if you look at the elevation (just a 10 percent grade doubles your hiking time) and heat, and 30 percent of bodyweight on the back is considered a VERY high load even for a fit person.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I would bet money that they all died of heat stroke. Dad couldn't sweat b/c of big pack, was exerting himself, and it was 106 degrees with no shade! A human cannot survive if their core temp goes above 106 and there was no way for them to cool down. Babies are like old people, they can't thermo regulate. The baby was trapped in a backpack oven. Bet the dad didn't even realize til he took the pack off that the baby had died. The dog probably stopped moving at some point, at which time the dad sat down.

I’m following thread and this makes the most sense. It explains the positioning of sitting dad, dog at side, mom continuing to scramble up the hill. Dog and Dad (maybe carrying both baby and dig at this point) faltered, dad sat down, only then realizing baby was already dead. Mom freaked and began to run for help. Dog and parents were already near death at that point.

They took a baby in a baby carrier in 106 degree heat? WTF. Dumb people.

Yeah if this is what happened, then these people made a whole bunch of ridiculously stupid decisions.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I would bet money that they all died of heat stroke. Dad couldn't sweat b/c of big pack, was exerting himself, and it was 106 degrees with no shade! A human cannot survive if their core temp goes above 106 and there was no way for them to cool down. Babies are like old people, they can't thermo regulate. The baby was trapped in a backpack oven. Bet the dad didn't even realize til he took the pack off that the baby had died. The dog probably stopped moving at some point, at which time the dad sat down.

I’m following thread and this makes the most sense. It explains the positioning of sitting dad, dog at side, mom continuing to scramble up the hill. Dog and Dad (maybe carrying both baby and dig at this point) faltered, dad sat down, only then realizing baby was already dead. Mom freaked and began to run for help. Dog and parents were already near death at that point.

They took a baby in a baby carrier in 106 degree heat? WTF. Dumb people.

That’s what I keep coming back to. The hike made no sense on any level. And the dad had researched it. If it’s heat stroke, it’s not like they came into the hike not knowing the hazards. All of the information they needed about this adventure (the distance, topography, lack of shade, and hourly forecast) was available to them before the hike began.

In order to believe it was heat stroke, it requires us to believe they made SEVERAL significant errors in judgement BEFORE THE HIKE EVEN BEGAN:

-taking baby on a hike on such a hot day and getting such a late start
-choosing a route with no shade
-choosing such a vigorous and involved hike
-not bringing enough water
-not turning back once they realized how hard the whole thing was going to be

These were not stupid people. Not tourists. Not inexperienced hikers. They had to have known what they were getting into. And with a BABY.

I just don’t understand undertaking the hike in the first place.

+1 Agree with all of this and that’s why it doesn’t make sense, although I don’t ascribe to the various family annihilation, rattlesnake, boulder etc. theories here either. Another poster way upthread found his online hiking profile and he had already hiked this exact trail.

He'd hiked the Hite Cove Trail before, per his Alltrails account, but not the Savage Lundy Trail portion of the loop (the switchback assent where they were found).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I would bet money that they all died of heat stroke. Dad couldn't sweat b/c of big pack, was exerting himself, and it was 106 degrees with no shade! A human cannot survive if their core temp goes above 106 and there was no way for them to cool down. Babies are like old people, they can't thermo regulate. The baby was trapped in a backpack oven. Bet the dad didn't even realize til he took the pack off that the baby had died. The dog probably stopped moving at some point, at which time the dad sat down.

I’m following thread and this makes the most sense. It explains the positioning of sitting dad, dog at side, mom continuing to scramble up the hill. Dog and Dad (maybe carrying both baby and dig at this point) faltered, dad sat down, only then realizing baby was already dead. Mom freaked and began to run for help. Dog and parents were already near death at that point.

They took a baby in a baby carrier in 106 degree heat? WTF. Dumb people.

I don't think it was they took the baby out in that kind of heat so much as they didn't get back in time to avoid that kind of heat.

[Anonymous]

It reminds me of the people that decide to sail across the Pacific with their young child. If you make it without tragedy, you think you are the coolest person for exposing your child to nature and not living a basic suburban life. Some people either just don't assess risk well, or accept risks that others of us would find unacceptable. (I see people on the travel forum all the time recommending vacations for families that I would NOT feel comfortable taking my kids on, due to risk of political instability or generally unsafe conditions, but I'm pretty risk averse when it comes to the kids.)

I can't help thinking about all the dumb arguments I have with my spouse, and wondering if they spent their last hours in one of those arguments where one spouse was saying "I told you it was too hot today." or "I think we should turn back now...it's too hot for the dog" and the other spouse didn't want to.

Someone upthread posted a timeline and it looks like they didn't find the bodies until more than 24 hours after the death....I would imagine that would significantly impair their ability to make a quick assessment as to cause of death.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Great, ya’ll have really cracked the case. The thing I still don’t understand is how they all died of heatstroke when investigators clearly stated the cause of death was not obvious.

U think a sign appears on the body saying "cause of death heat stroke"? They are eliminating other possible factors, most likely. From the internet: "the autopsy findings of heat stroke may be minimal and are non-specific, particularly if the survival interval is short."

Well, yes. There's a reason that they're looking at unusual causes of death. There's something about the bodies that points to that.

The evidence of heat stroke may be minimal but it's not unobvious, especially on a hot day when that would be the most usual cause.

okay. When the unheralded report comes out no one will likely even notice. It will likely contain vague med speak and point to ambient temps and the lack of toxins/etc. People die in their freaking backyards doing yardwork of heatstroke, but these jokers thought it was cool to either not check the weather, or purposefully took their little baby on a hike in 106 degree heat. They were negligent from the outset. You don't need to be an expert to see that.

You are making a lot of assumptions about what happened so you can sh1t on them.

Why is that?

I'm not assuming that they voluntarily went hiking. Or do you believe they were forced?

You made MANY other assumptions that would portray them negatively. Do you often assume the worst in people?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It reminds me of the people that decide to sail across the Pacific with their young child. If you make it without tragedy, you think you are the coolest person for exposing your child to nature and not living a basic suburban life. Some people either just don't assess risk well, or accept risks that others of us would find unacceptable. (I see people on the travel forum all the time recommending vacations for families that I would NOT feel comfortable taking my kids on, due to risk of political instability or generally unsafe conditions, but I'm pretty risk averse when it comes to the kids.)

I can't help thinking about all the dumb arguments I have with my spouse, and wondering if they spent their last hours in one of those arguments where one spouse was saying "I told you it was too hot today." or "I think we should turn back now...it's too hot for the dog" and the other spouse didn't want to.

Someone upthread posted a timeline and it looks like they didn't find the bodies until more than 24 hours after the death....I would imagine that would significantly impair their ability to make a quick assessment as to cause of death.

+1. I wouldn’t be surprised at all if this happened. One parent probably wanted to turn back first, and the other wanted to push on.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As a mom, if your baby died and your husband was dying, would you leave the dead baby to go for aid? I’m not sure I would be rationale enough to leave them and may take their corpse but that could have been the scene here.

This mom was quite petite. The baby carrier looks big and heavy. She might not have wanted to leave the baby behind but may not have had a choice. She didn’t have the strength to carry it. I honestly think she wasn’t thinking coherently by then from grief, panic and heat exhaustion. The only cell phone mentioned was with the husband and so even if she took off, she didn’t have a cell phone on her. She didn’t think to get his cell phone. It’s all very sad.

The high end hiking carriers are not actually that heavy. Less than 10 pounds. You think the mom couldn’t carry 30 lbs (20 for baby and 10 for pack) if she had to?

No, I don’t. That’s a third of her weight, bulky as f, in 103F heat, on uneven terrain and over 1.5 miles away. Impossible.

Generously, a mile would take her 20 minutes to walk in normal conditions. So 30-minutes for a mile-and-a-half. Now add a 30-pound weight to her back, it would probably take her at least forty-five minutes.

Which there’s no way she could sustain a march that long with that weight.

Agree...what was left of the hike was brutal if you look at the elevation (just a 10 percent grade doubles your hiking time) and heat, and 30 percent of bodyweight on the back is considered a VERY high load even for a fit person.

Yeah I couldn’t do it. I’m similar body type to her (5’1”, 100-105lbs) and an active walker/treadmill runner who is used to longer hikes. I sometimes have to carry my 20 lb dog and I don’t see being able to do a mile in that kind of heat, even if the ground were pretty flat.

[Anonymous]

I just feel really bad for the baby. No control over anything, like being locked in a hot car.