What happened to this California family?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:300 people are bitten by rattlesnakes per year in CA.

Interesting fact. In the book about dying in the Grand Canyon, very few of the deaths involve animals. They were surprised when they studied the data that rattlesnake bites didn't count for more deaths. They rarely bite hikers in the GC and they aren't fatal bites when they do bite. I think one older guy died of a heart attack after being bitten. One guy got butted off a trail by a mountain goat.

I saw that book when we were at the GC and almost picked it up. Maybe I'll have to order it as it sounds really interesting.

The book does a great job of educating the reader about how risky hiking down into the valley is. There are lots of people who should just stay above around the rim. The number of people who are unprepared and get themselves into trouble isn't surprising. I was more stunned by the experienced hikers who got in trouble. You really get a feel for the rescue folks and the danger they encounter dealing with idiots. There is also lots of info about the dangers around the rivers there.

I also learned, DO NOT take a helicopter ride over the gc.

I did that and loved it - was I dumb?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The duality of nature is tragically illustrated by this incident. The beauty and apparent perfection of nature inspires us to experience it as thoroughly as our individual circumstances permit. However, the challenge and danger of it is frightening and will injure or kill us with ease when our personal safety taken for granted. One always needs to use conservative judgement when balancing that real threat against our exploratory desires.

My family has experienced most of the big national parks, including extensive hiking. This includes several Yosemite hikes and even a very short hike in Death Valley during the peak heat season in August (about 128 degrees in the shade). I was so cautious about driving into Death Valley that I put a 5-gallon plastic jug of water in our rental car – just in case of a breakdown. Despite being prepared with the proper clothes, water and other protective measures, the feeling of walking in such heat for even a single mile was unnerving. Simply breathing causes the inside of the nostrils to feel like you are in a dry sauna – a weird burning smell. Close to home, during the summer we have experienced similar temperatures and conditions in the southern portions of Shenandoah, so these hazards present themselves locally. Unprepared people really do die on even relatively short hikes in these parks – sometimes caused by a sudden natural development or by aggravating a pre-existing health problem through extreme stress. My brother in law married a woman whose late husband (an experienced outdoorsman) froze to death while hiking alone and unprepared in Yosemite in the late spring. A sudden freakish ice storm killed him. Hard to say what happened in this case, but I have the gut feeling that a combination of excessive heat, an unusual natural occurrence and inability to obtain help killed them.

I am the Scoutmaster of the all-girl Scouts BSA Troop in DC and remember these outdoor tragedies when we instruct our Scouts to favor caution over enthusiasm in heading into the wilderness. Bring plenty of clean water, dress carefully, have a means of communication and always tell someone where you are going and when you are expecting to return.

Over spring break we visited my dad in northern AZ and he took me and the kids out 4x4ing. It was just like my childhood down to the gallons of water, food, sleeping bags, and first aid kit in the back. Putting gallons of water in the back of your rental seems like over preparation up until the car breaks down in the middle of nowhere or you pull off on the side of the road and accidentally sink a tire into a gopher hole.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I would bet money that they all died of heat stroke. Dad couldn't sweat b/c of big pack, was exerting himself, and it was 106 degrees with no shade! A human cannot survive if their core temp goes above 106 and there was no way for them to cool down. Babies are like old people, they can't thermo regulate. The baby was trapped in a backpack oven. Bet the dad didn't even realize til he took the pack off that the baby had died. The dog probably stopped moving at some point, at which time the dad sat down.

I’m following thread and this makes the most sense. It explains the positioning of sitting dad, dog at side, mom continuing to scramble up the hill. Dog and Dad (maybe carrying both baby and dig at this point) faltered, dad sat down, only then realizing baby was already dead. Mom freaked and began to run for help. Dog and parents were already near death at that point.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I would bet money that they all died of heat stroke. Dad couldn't sweat b/c of big pack, was exerting himself, and it was 106 degrees with no shade! A human cannot survive if their core temp goes above 106 and there was no way for them to cool down. Babies are like old people, they can't thermo regulate. The baby was trapped in a backpack oven. Bet the dad didn't even realize til he took the pack off that the baby had died. The dog probably stopped moving at some point, at which time the dad sat down.

I’m following thread and this makes the most sense. It explains the positioning of sitting dad, dog at side, mom continuing to scramble up the hill. Dog and Dad (maybe carrying both baby and dig at this point) faltered, dad sat down, only then realizing baby was already dead. Mom freaked and began to run for help. Dog and parents were already near death at that point.

They took a baby in a baby carrier in 106 degree heat? WTF. Dumb people.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I would bet money that they all died of heat stroke. Dad couldn't sweat b/c of big pack, was exerting himself, and it was 106 degrees with no shade! A human cannot survive if their core temp goes above 106 and there was no way for them to cool down. Babies are like old people, they can't thermo regulate. The baby was trapped in a backpack oven. Bet the dad didn't even realize til he took the pack off that the baby had died. The dog probably stopped moving at some point, at which time the dad sat down.

I’m following thread and this makes the most sense. It explains the positioning of sitting dad, dog at side, mom continuing to scramble up the hill. Dog and Dad (maybe carrying both baby and dig at this point) faltered, dad sat down, only then realizing baby was already dead. Mom freaked and began to run for help. Dog and parents were already near death at that point.

They took a baby in a baby carrier in 106 degree heat? WTF. Dumb people.

That’s what I keep coming back to. The hike made no sense on any level. And the dad had researched it. If it’s heat stroke, it’s not like they came into the hike not knowing the hazards. All of the information they needed about this adventure (the distance, topography, lack of shade, and hourly forecast) was available to them before the hike began.

In order to believe it was heat stroke, it requires us to believe they made SEVERAL significant errors in judgement BEFORE THE HIKE EVEN BEGAN:

-taking baby on a hike on such a hot day and getting such a late start
-choosing a route with no shade
-choosing such a vigorous and involved hike
-not bringing enough water
-not turning back once they realized how hard the whole thing was going to be

These were not stupid people. Not tourists. Not inexperienced hikers. They had to have known what they were getting into. And with a BABY.

I just don’t understand undertaking the hike in the first place.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:300 people are bitten by rattlesnakes per year in CA.

Interesting fact. In the book about dying in the Grand Canyon, very few of the deaths involve animals. They were surprised when they studied the data that rattlesnake bites didn't count for more deaths. They rarely bite hikers in the GC and they aren't fatal bites when they do bite. I think one older guy died of a heart attack after being bitten. One guy got butted off a trail by a mountain goat.

I saw that book when we were at the GC and almost picked it up. Maybe I'll have to order it as it sounds really interesting.

The book does a great job of educating the reader about how risky hiking down into the valley is. There are lots of people who should just stay above around the rim. The number of people who are unprepared and get themselves into trouble isn't surprising. I was more stunned by the experienced hikers who got in trouble. You really get a feel for the rescue folks and the danger they encounter dealing with idiots. There is also lots of info about the dangers around the rivers there.

I also learned, DO NOT take a helicopter ride over the gc.

I did that and loved it - was I dumb?

They're unsafe. The helicopters and maybe even the sight seeing planes aren't regulated and have an unacceptable number of crashes. I need to go find the book to see their data. The book is fascinating because they try to catalog every death as far back as they can find. They were very clear on this issue.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I would bet money that they all died of heat stroke. Dad couldn't sweat b/c of big pack, was exerting himself, and it was 106 degrees with no shade! A human cannot survive if their core temp goes above 106 and there was no way for them to cool down. Babies are like old people, they can't thermo regulate. The baby was trapped in a backpack oven. Bet the dad didn't even realize til he took the pack off that the baby had died. The dog probably stopped moving at some point, at which time the dad sat down.

I’m following thread and this makes the most sense. It explains the positioning of sitting dad, dog at side, mom continuing to scramble up the hill. Dog and Dad (maybe carrying both baby and dig at this point) faltered, dad sat down, only then realizing baby was already dead. Mom freaked and began to run for help. Dog and parents were already near death at that point.

They took a baby in a baby carrier in 106 degree heat? WTF. Dumb people.

That’s what I keep coming back to. The hike made no sense on any level. And the dad had researched it. If it’s heat stroke, it’s not like they came into the hike not knowing the hazards. All of the information they needed about this adventure (the distance, topography, lack of shade, and hourly forecast) was available to them before the hike began.

In order to believe it was heat stroke, it requires us to believe they made SEVERAL significant errors in judgement BEFORE THE HIKE EVEN BEGAN:

-taking baby on a hike on such a hot day and getting such a late start
-choosing a route with no shade
-choosing such a vigorous and involved hike
-not bringing enough water
-not turning back once they realized how hard the whole thing was going to be

These were not stupid people. Not tourists. Not inexperienced hikers. They had to have known what they were getting into. And with a BABY.

I just don’t understand undertaking the hike in the first place.

NP here:
It's not usually that hot in their area. It was an unseasonably warm day. They don't live in a desert, but rather the forested foothills of the Sierra Nevadas.

I honestly think they (1) neglected to check their weather app before going out on the hike and (2) they did not fully comprehend the difficulty, elevation change, and lack of shade on the switchback trail. Their mistakes were borne out of a mix of ignorance and over-confidence.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I would bet money that they all died of heat stroke. Dad couldn't sweat b/c of big pack, was exerting himself, and it was 106 degrees with no shade! A human cannot survive if their core temp goes above 106 and there was no way for them to cool down. Babies are like old people, they can't thermo regulate. The baby was trapped in a backpack oven. Bet the dad didn't even realize til he took the pack off that the baby had died. The dog probably stopped moving at some point, at which time the dad sat down.

I’m following thread and this makes the most sense. It explains the positioning of sitting dad, dog at side, mom continuing to scramble up the hill. Dog and Dad (maybe carrying both baby and dig at this point) faltered, dad sat down, only then realizing baby was already dead. Mom freaked and began to run for help. Dog and parents were already near death at that point.

They took a baby in a baby carrier in 106 degree heat? WTF. Dumb people.

That’s what I keep coming back to. The hike made no sense on any level. And the dad had researched it. If it’s heat stroke, it’s not like they came into the hike not knowing the hazards. All of the information they needed about this adventure (the distance, topography, lack of shade, and hourly forecast) was available to them before the hike began.

In order to believe it was heat stroke, it requires us to believe they made SEVERAL significant errors in judgement BEFORE THE HIKE EVEN BEGAN:

-taking baby on a hike on such a hot day and getting such a late start
-choosing a route with no shade
-choosing such a vigorous and involved hike
-not bringing enough water
-not turning back once they realized how hard the whole thing was going to be

These were not stupid people. Not tourists. Not inexperienced hikers. They had to have known what they were getting into. And with a BABY.

I just don’t understand undertaking the hike in the first place.

NP here:
It's not usually that hot in their area. It was an unseasonably warm day. They don't live in a desert, but rather the forested foothills of the Sierra Nevadas.

I honestly think they (1) neglected to check their weather app before going out on the hike and (2) they did not fully comprehend the difficulty, elevation change, and lack of shade on the switchback trail. Their mistakes were borne out of a mix of ignorance and over-confidence.

I mean you make valid points and that would explain it. I think they’d been in a heat wave for awhile though, hadn’t they? I don’t think it was random or sudden.

I think I’m just having trouble understanding the thought process. They worked in tech….they were parents of a young baby. The kind of people who would research these things. Heck, most of my friends don’t even go to a restaurant or buy a $20 item off of Amazon without looking at reviews. How could they have been so reckless as to not have checked the weather and distance (or not to have bailed out soon into the trip)?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:So they closed the forest because of whatever killed this family and multiple posters are still blaming them.

Figures.

It helps them feel better about their own sad lives.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I would bet money that they all died of heat stroke. Dad couldn't sweat b/c of big pack, was exerting himself, and it was 106 degrees with no shade! A human cannot survive if their core temp goes above 106 and there was no way for them to cool down. Babies are like old people, they can't thermo regulate. The baby was trapped in a backpack oven. Bet the dad didn't even realize til he took the pack off that the baby had died. The dog probably stopped moving at some point, at which time the dad sat down.

I’m following thread and this makes the most sense. It explains the positioning of sitting dad, dog at side, mom continuing to scramble up the hill. Dog and Dad (maybe carrying both baby and dig at this point) faltered, dad sat down, only then realizing baby was already dead. Mom freaked and began to run for help. Dog and parents were already near death at that point.

They took a baby in a baby carrier in 106 degree heat? WTF. Dumb people.

That’s what I keep coming back to. The hike made no sense on any level. And the dad had researched it. If it’s heat stroke, it’s not like they came into the hike not knowing the hazards. All of the information they needed about this adventure (the distance, topography, lack of shade, and hourly forecast) was available to them before the hike began.

In order to believe it was heat stroke, it requires us to believe they made SEVERAL significant errors in judgement BEFORE THE HIKE EVEN BEGAN:

-taking baby on a hike on such a hot day and getting such a late start
-choosing a route with no shade
-choosing such a vigorous and involved hike
-not bringing enough water
-not turning back once they realized how hard the whole thing was going to be

These were not stupid people. Not tourists. Not inexperienced hikers. They had to have known what they were getting into. And with a BABY.

I just don’t understand undertaking the hike in the first place.

NP here:
It's not usually that hot in their area. It was an unseasonably warm day. They don't live in a desert, but rather the forested foothills of the Sierra Nevadas.

I honestly think they (1) neglected to check their weather app before going out on the hike and (2) they did not fully comprehend the difficulty, elevation change, and lack of shade on the switchback trail. Their mistakes were borne out of a mix of ignorance and over-confidence.

I mean you make valid points and that would explain it. I think they’d been in a heat wave for awhile though, hadn’t they? I don’t think it was random or sudden.

I think I’m just having trouble understanding the thought process. They worked in tech….they were parents of a young baby. The kind of people who would research these things. Heck, most of my friends don’t even go to a restaurant or buy a $20 item off of Amazon without looking at reviews. How could they have been so reckless as to not have checked the weather and distance (or not to have bailed out soon into the trip)?

You are making a lot of assumptions there on very little data...why is that?

You're just looking for someone to sh1t on?

[Anonymous]

Great, ya’ll have really cracked the case. The thing I still don’t understand is how they all died of heatstroke when investigators clearly stated the cause of death was not obvious.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I would bet money that they all died of heat stroke. Dad couldn't sweat b/c of big pack, was exerting himself, and it was 106 degrees with no shade! A human cannot survive if their core temp goes above 106 and there was no way for them to cool down. Babies are like old people, they can't thermo regulate. The baby was trapped in a backpack oven. Bet the dad didn't even realize til he took the pack off that the baby had died. The dog probably stopped moving at some point, at which time the dad sat down.

I’m following thread and this makes the most sense. It explains the positioning of sitting dad, dog at side, mom continuing to scramble up the hill. Dog and Dad (maybe carrying both baby and dig at this point) faltered, dad sat down, only then realizing baby was already dead. Mom freaked and began to run for help. Dog and parents were already near death at that point.

They took a baby in a baby carrier in 106 degree heat? WTF. Dumb people.

That’s what I keep coming back to. The hike made no sense on any level. And the dad had researched it. If it’s heat stroke, it’s not like they came into the hike not knowing the hazards. All of the information they needed about this adventure (the distance, topography, lack of shade, and hourly forecast) was available to them before the hike began.

In order to believe it was heat stroke, it requires us to believe they made SEVERAL significant errors in judgement BEFORE THE HIKE EVEN BEGAN:

-taking baby on a hike on such a hot day and getting such a late start
-choosing a route with no shade
-choosing such a vigorous and involved hike
-not bringing enough water
-not turning back once they realized how hard the whole thing was going to be

These were not stupid people. Not tourists. Not inexperienced hikers. They had to have known what they were getting into. And with a BABY.

I just don’t understand undertaking the hike in the first place.

+1 Agree with all of this and that’s why it doesn’t make sense, although I don’t ascribe to the various family annihilation, rattlesnake, boulder etc. theories here either. Another poster way upthread found his online hiking profile and he had already hiked this exact trail.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Great, ya’ll have really cracked the case. The thing I still don’t understand is how they all died of heatstroke when investigators clearly stated the cause of death was not obvious.

U think a sign appears on the body saying "cause of death heat stroke"? They are eliminating other possible factors, most likely. From the internet: "the autopsy findings of heat stroke may be minimal and are non-specific, particularly if the survival interval is short."

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Great, ya’ll have really cracked the case. The thing I still don’t understand is how they all died of heatstroke when investigators clearly stated the cause of death was not obvious.

U think a sign appears on the body saying "cause of death heat stroke"? They are eliminating other possible factors, most likely. From the internet: "the autopsy findings of heat stroke may be minimal and are non-specific, particularly if the survival interval is short."

Which means we will have people believing in some mystery killer for decades.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I would bet money that they all died of heat stroke. Dad couldn't sweat b/c of big pack, was exerting himself, and it was 106 degrees with no shade! A human cannot survive if their core temp goes above 106 and there was no way for them to cool down. Babies are like old people, they can't thermo regulate. The baby was trapped in a backpack oven. Bet the dad didn't even realize til he took the pack off that the baby had died. The dog probably stopped moving at some point, at which time the dad sat down.

I’m following thread and this makes the most sense. It explains the positioning of sitting dad, dog at side, mom continuing to scramble up the hill. Dog and Dad (maybe carrying both baby and dig at this point) faltered, dad sat down, only then realizing baby was already dead. Mom freaked and began to run for help. Dog and parents were already near death at that point.

They took a baby in a baby carrier in 106 degree heat? WTF. Dumb people.

That’s what I keep coming back to. The hike made no sense on any level. And the dad had researched it. If it’s heat stroke, it’s not like they came into the hike not knowing the hazards. All of the information they needed about this adventure (the distance, topography, lack of shade, and hourly forecast) was available to them before the hike began.

In order to believe it was heat stroke, it requires us to believe they made SEVERAL significant errors in judgement BEFORE THE HIKE EVEN BEGAN:

-taking baby on a hike on such a hot day and getting such a late start
-choosing a route with no shade
-choosing such a vigorous and involved hike
-not bringing enough water
-not turning back once they realized how hard the whole thing was going to be

These were not stupid people. Not tourists. Not inexperienced hikers. They had to have known what they were getting into. And with a BABY.

I just don’t understand undertaking the hike in the first place.

I'm staunchly in the death by heat stroke/misadventure camp (and none of the supposedly "weird" details that have been shared about the scene - proximity of bodies, no marks on the bodies, etc. - makes me doubt it), but you're right that setting out for this hike, on this day, makes little sense in the first place.

What do you think happened?