ECNL moving to school year part 2

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Need Ken Griffin to invest 100M to:

A) buy out the various leagues (and get rid of Rory and Rod and any other bad actor in the process)

B) Combine all the various leagues into true English relegation structure

C) Build half a dozen facilities across the country like what they have down in AZ.

D) Fund refereeing training and strata so there is more consistency

E) Pull true academies away from MLS and have them governed with consistency but give the MLS and NWLS the fees for those in their geographic locations.

Are you seriously talking about the Barca facility in Casa Grande? What a spithole. Its in the middle of nowhere south of Phoenix and north of Tuscon. It used to be the San Francisco Giants summer training facilities.

https://saltriverstories.org/items/show/205

No. Arizona Athletic in Mesa. 20 full turf fields and 4 grass. https://azgrounds.com/sports/soccer

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm so confused - what's all this playing down talk even about? It's always been a 12 month calendar, and it is still going to be a 12 month calendar.

It was a 12 month calendar starting on 1/1

ECNL USYS and other mostly littles leagues like SOCAL will be changing from 1/1 to 8/1 *

* Because school districts start at different times. Theres a possibility that Aug birthdays could play down a grade instead of on a team with players their grade in school. ECNL + others will implement a rule not allowing this to address and avoid the issue.

The other playing down comments are by some High School (probably private) parent thats introducing GY into the discussion to confuse everyone and get GY into youth soccer. Which will never happen.

Thanks for the breakdown.

As to the first point, Aug kids playing down a grade isn't playing down if they're inside the 12 month window, but I can see why people are using the phrase "playing down" even though it is not "playing down" in the true sense, i.e. playing down in age to gain an advantage. I'd be surprised if they make rule a forcing kids to play outside their 12-month window to their potential disadvantage. Seems like they picked Aug. 1 to give those kids the option, which most kids will likely choose to play on grade anyway. But forcing someone to play with older kids doesn't seem to be the best option.

As to the second point, I don't see that happening either. Soccer has always been a 12 month system. Maybe those people clamoring for true GY can switch to basketball or lacrosse.

Allowing Aug birthdays to play on a team with kids a grade below them has no upside. Not allowing Aug birthdays to play on a grade below them team guarantees that everyone on the field during games will be graduating the same year. Which is what college recruiters want.

But we're not just talking about kids who want to be recruited, etc. We're talking about the entire soccer ecosystem. I don't disagree that there is little upside, but if you're a small Aug. kid forced to play with an older age group, then there could be a really big downside. The key is to not force those kids to do anything. If they want to and are fine with playing a grade below, then go for it. I think they would understand the difficulty with recruiting, etc. if that was something on their radar to begin with. If they want to play on grade, but be young, then go for it too!

Every time a player plays down with younger players they take a spot away from a player thats the correct grade/age.

I like how all the SY people are trying to distance themselves from grade in school when this is what they told everyone was the primary reason for switching from BY.

Theres 2 ways you address the playing down issue. You can change the eligibility window to 13 months and qualify to 13th month for grade enrolled (SY+30). Or you keep it 12 months but make a rule that the 11th month (Aug) isnt allowed to play down on a team with players a grade younger.

I get that you're want to keep things "fair" with the same eligibility window for all players. But this just isnt possible if you want to field teams where all players are rhe same grade in school. Also the 12 month window is arbitrary theres nothing set in stone that its how things have to work.

I can't see how if you were for BY that you would care about school grades at all. Unless you were hypocritical and just want an advantage for your kid.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I just don't understand why a parent would fight for their kid to play down. When i was young if you werem't the same ability as kids your age you didnt play.

The crazy parents were the ones fighting for their kid to play up against older players on an older team. Sometimes these parents were justified. Sometimes they thought their kid was better than they were. But it didn't matter because the older kids would sort that out on the field with the younger player.

The push to playi down started 20 years ago but became more mainstream 10 years ago. You see it all the time at private schools.16 year old freshman are becoming the norm for private schools that recruit.

Youth Soccer has always been grouped based on a 12 month calendar. The cheaters hate it and want to change soccer into another GY sport. This will never happen because clubs control competition and college recruitment pathways. Clubs make much more money not implementing GY not allowing players to play down.

Adding on...

This is why Christian Lavars (the ECNL grand puba) said on the first podcast where they brought up switching from BY to SY. That he didnt agree with players playing down. He said this to calm all the ECNL clubs that know GY would quickly translate into less revenue if implemented.

FYI, the discussion was in reference to playing down on age when trapped and had nothing to do with school grades. He said this because it created temporary disruptions for the younger team; like too many players for half a season. They also were/are generally against playing up in age except in very rare cases.

So the change from BY to SY was to accommodate more players playing with their grade in school...

Got it

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I just don't understand why a parent would fight for their kid to play down. When i was young if you werem't the same ability as kids your age you didnt play.

The crazy parents were the ones fighting for their kid to play up against older players on an older team. Sometimes these parents were justified. Sometimes they thought their kid was better than they were. But it didn't matter because the older kids would sort that out on the field with the younger player.

The push to playi down started 20 years ago but became more mainstream 10 years ago. You see it all the time at private schools.16 year old freshman are becoming the norm for private schools that recruit.

Youth Soccer has always been grouped based on a 12 month calendar. The cheaters hate it and want to change soccer into another GY sport. This will never happen because clubs control competition and college recruitment pathways. Clubs make much more money not implementing GY not allowing players to play down.

Adding on...

This is why Christian Lavars (the ECNL grand puba) said on the first podcast where they brought up switching from BY to SY. That he didnt agree with players playing down. He said this to calm all the ECNL clubs that know GY would quickly translate into less revenue if implemented.

FYI, the discussion was in reference to playing down on age when trapped and had nothing to do with school grades. He said this because it created temporary disruptions for the younger team; like too many players for half a season. They also were/are generally against playing up in age except in very rare cases.

So the change from BY to SY was to accommodate more players playing with their grade in school...

Got it

Exactly! You cant have it both ways.

ECNL is going to implement a rule not allowing Aug birthdays to play down with players a grade below then in school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm so confused - what's all this playing down talk even about? It's always been a 12 month calendar, and it is still going to be a 12 month calendar.

It was a 12 month calendar starting on 1/1

ECNL USYS and other mostly littles leagues like SOCAL will be changing from 1/1 to 8/1 *

* Because school districts start at different times. Theres a possibility that Aug birthdays could play down a grade instead of on a team with players their grade in school. ECNL + others will implement a rule not allowing this to address and avoid the issue.

The other playing down comments are by some High School (probably private) parent thats introducing GY into the discussion to confuse everyone and get GY into youth soccer. Which will never happen.

Thanks for the breakdown.

As to the first point, Aug kids playing down a grade isn't playing down if they're inside the 12 month window, but I can see why people are using the phrase "playing down" even though it is not "playing down" in the true sense, i.e. playing down in age to gain an advantage. I'd be surprised if they make rule a forcing kids to play outside their 12-month window to their potential disadvantage. Seems like they picked Aug. 1 to give those kids the option, which most kids will likely choose to play on grade anyway. But forcing someone to play with older kids doesn't seem to be the best option.

As to the second point, I don't see that happening either. Soccer has always been a 12 month system. Maybe those people clamoring for true GY can switch to basketball or lacrosse.

Allowing Aug birthdays to play on a team with kids a grade below them has no upside. Not allowing Aug birthdays to play on a grade below them team guarantees that everyone on the field during games will be graduating the same year. Which is what college recruiters want.

But we're not just talking about kids who want to be recruited, etc. We're talking about the entire soccer ecosystem. I don't disagree that there is little upside, but if you're a small Aug. kid forced to play with an older age group, then there could be a really big downside. The key is to not force those kids to do anything. If they want to and are fine with playing a grade below, then go for it. I think they would understand the difficulty with recruiting, etc. if that was something on their radar to begin with. If they want to play on grade, but be young, then go for it too!

Every time a player plays down with younger players they take a spot away from a player thats the correct grade/age.

I like how all the SY people are trying to distance themselves from grade in school when this is what they told everyone was the primary reason for switching from BY.

Theres 2 ways you address the playing down issue. You can change the eligibility window to 13 months and qualify to 13th month for grade enrolled (SY+30). Or you keep it 12 months but make a rule that the 11th month (Aug) isnt allowed to play down on a team with players a grade younger.

I get that you're want to keep things "fair" with the same eligibility window for all players. But this just isnt possible if you want to field teams where all players are rhe same grade in school. Also the 12 month window is arbitrary theres nothing set in stone that its how things have to work.

The best option is doing neither. Players will be able to play up if needed with their grade. But no league, club or parent should be forced, nor should they be barred from playing within the age group. That allows maximum flexibility to address all the concerns.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I just don't understand why a parent would fight for their kid to play down. When i was young if you werem't the same ability as kids your age you didnt play.

The crazy parents were the ones fighting for their kid to play up against older players on an older team. Sometimes these parents were justified. Sometimes they thought their kid was better than they were. But it didn't matter because the older kids would sort that out on the field with the younger player.

The push to playi down started 20 years ago but became more mainstream 10 years ago. You see it all the time at private schools.16 year old freshman are becoming the norm for private schools that recruit.

Youth Soccer has always been grouped based on a 12 month calendar. The cheaters hate it and want to change soccer into another GY sport. This will never happen because clubs control competition and college recruitment pathways. Clubs make much more money not implementing GY not allowing players to play down.

Adding on...

This is why Christian Lavars (the ECNL grand puba) said on the first podcast where they brought up switching from BY to SY. That he didnt agree with players playing down. He said this to calm all the ECNL clubs that know GY would quickly translate into less revenue if implemented.

FYI, the discussion was in reference to playing down on age when trapped and had nothing to do with school grades. He said this because it created temporary disruptions for the younger team; like too many players for half a season. They also were/are generally against playing up in age except in very rare cases.

So the change from BY to SY was to accommodate more players playing with their grade in school...

Got it

No, they said that playing outside your age range, as in a solution for trapped players, was problematic.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I just don't understand why a parent would fight for their kid to play down. When i was young if you werem't the same ability as kids your age you didnt play.

The crazy parents were the ones fighting for their kid to play up against older players on an older team. Sometimes these parents were justified. Sometimes they thought their kid was better than they were. But it didn't matter because the older kids would sort that out on the field with the younger player.

The push to playi down started 20 years ago but became more mainstream 10 years ago. You see it all the time at private schools.16 year old freshman are becoming the norm for private schools that recruit.

Youth Soccer has always been grouped based on a 12 month calendar. The cheaters hate it and want to change soccer into another GY sport. This will never happen because clubs control competition and college recruitment pathways. Clubs make much more money not implementing GY not allowing players to play down.

Adding on...

This is why Christian Lavars (the ECNL grand puba) said on the first podcast where they brought up switching from BY to SY. That he didnt agree with players playing down. He said this to calm all the ECNL clubs that know GY would quickly translate into less revenue if implemented.

FYI, the discussion was in reference to playing down on age when trapped and had nothing to do with school grades. He said this because it created temporary disruptions for the younger team; like too many players for half a season. They also were/are generally against playing up in age except in very rare cases.

So the change from BY to SY was to accommodate more players playing with their grade in school...

Got it

Exactly! You cant have it both ways.

ECNL is going to implement a rule not allowing Aug birthdays to play down with players a grade below then in school.

They aren't.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Need Ken Griffin to invest 100M to:

A) buy out the various leagues (and get rid of Rory and Rod and any other bad actor in the process)

B) Combine all the various leagues into true English relegation structure

C) Build half a dozen facilities across the country like what they have down in AZ.

D) Fund refereeing training and strata so there is more consistency

E) Pull true academies away from MLS and have them governed with consistency but give the MLS and NWLS the fees for those in their geographic locations.

Are you seriously talking about the Barca facility in Casa Grande? What a spithole. Its in the middle of nowhere south of Phoenix and north of Tuscon. It used to be the San Francisco Giants summer training facilities.

https://saltriverstories.org/items/show/205

No. Arizona Athletic in Mesa. 20 full turf fields and 4 grass. https://azgrounds.com/sports/soccer

Ahh the old Bell Bank facility where the Legacy Sports guys stole all kinds of money from old people with dubious gov bonds. Are they still in jail?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I just don't understand why a parent would fight for their kid to play down. When i was young if you werem't the same ability as kids your age you didnt play.

The crazy parents were the ones fighting for their kid to play up against older players on an older team. Sometimes these parents were justified. Sometimes they thought their kid was better than they were. But it didn't matter because the older kids would sort that out on the field with the younger player.

The push to playi down started 20 years ago but became more mainstream 10 years ago. You see it all the time at private schools.16 year old freshman are becoming the norm for private schools that recruit.

Youth Soccer has always been grouped based on a 12 month calendar. The cheaters hate it and want to change soccer into another GY sport. This will never happen because clubs control competition and college recruitment pathways. Clubs make much more money not implementing GY not allowing players to play down.

Adding on...

This is why Christian Lavars (the ECNL grand puba) said on the first podcast where they brought up switching from BY to SY. That he didnt agree with players playing down. He said this to calm all the ECNL clubs that know GY would quickly translate into less revenue if implemented.

FYI, the discussion was in reference to playing down on age when trapped and had nothing to do with school grades. He said this because it created temporary disruptions for the younger team; like too many players for half a season. They also were/are generally against playing up in age except in very rare cases.

So the change from BY to SY was to accommodate more players playing with their grade in school...

Got it

Exactly! You cant have it both ways.

ECNL is going to implement a rule not allowing Aug birthdays to play down with players a grade below then in school.

They aren't.

But yet they will.

And even if they dont others will if they switch to SY just to annoy ECNL.

Continuing to allow playing down will make ECNL look lik a rec league.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I just don't understand why a parent would fight for their kid to play down. When i was young if you werem't the same ability as kids your age you didnt play.

The crazy parents were the ones fighting for their kid to play up against older players on an older team. Sometimes these parents were justified. Sometimes they thought their kid was better than they were. But it didn't matter because the older kids would sort that out on the field with the younger player.

The push to playi down started 20 years ago but became more mainstream 10 years ago. You see it all the time at private schools.16 year old freshman are becoming the norm for private schools that recruit.

Youth Soccer has always been grouped based on a 12 month calendar. The cheaters hate it and want to change soccer into another GY sport. This will never happen because clubs control competition and college recruitment pathways. Clubs make much more money not implementing GY not allowing players to play down.

Adding on...

This is why Christian Lavars (the ECNL grand puba) said on the first podcast where they brought up switching from BY to SY. That he didnt agree with players playing down. He said this to calm all the ECNL clubs that know GY would quickly translate into less revenue if implemented.

FYI, the discussion was in reference to playing down on age when trapped and had nothing to do with school grades. He said this because it created temporary disruptions for the younger team; like too many players for half a season. They also were/are generally against playing up in age except in very rare cases.

So the change from BY to SY was to accommodate more players playing with their grade in school...

Got it

Exactly! You cant have it both ways.

ECNL is going to implement a rule not allowing Aug birthdays to play down with players a grade below then in school.

They aren't.

But yet they will.

And even if they dont others will if they switch to SY just to annoy ECNL.

Continuing to allow playing down will make ECNL look lik a rec league.

Actually the rules are the other way around. ECNL is age based not grade based and rec tends to be age based with some grade exceptions depending on the locale. If you are looking for grade based, school is your best bet.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I just don't understand why a parent would fight for their kid to play down. When i was young if you werem't the same ability as kids your age you didnt play.

The crazy parents were the ones fighting for their kid to play up against older players on an older team. Sometimes these parents were justified. Sometimes they thought their kid was better than they were. But it didn't matter because the older kids would sort that out on the field with the younger player.

The push to playi down started 20 years ago but became more mainstream 10 years ago. You see it all the time at private schools.16 year old freshman are becoming the norm for private schools that recruit.

Youth Soccer has always been grouped based on a 12 month calendar. The cheaters hate it and want to change soccer into another GY sport. This will never happen because clubs control competition and college recruitment pathways. Clubs make much more money not implementing GY not allowing players to play down.

Adding on...

This is why Christian Lavars (the ECNL grand puba) said on the first podcast where they brought up switching from BY to SY. That he didnt agree with players playing down. He said this to calm all the ECNL clubs that know GY would quickly translate into less revenue if implemented.

FYI, the discussion was in reference to playing down on age when trapped and had nothing to do with school grades. He said this because it created temporary disruptions for the younger team; like too many players for half a season. They also were/are generally against playing up in age except in very rare cases.

So the change from BY to SY was to accommodate more players playing with their grade in school...

Got it

Exactly! You cant have it both ways.

ECNL is going to implement a rule not allowing Aug birthdays to play down with players a grade below then in school.

They aren't.

But yet they will.

And even if they dont others will if they switch to SY just to annoy ECNL.

Continuing to allow playing down will make ECNL look lik a rec league.

Actually the rules are the other way around. ECNL is age based not grade based and rec tends to be age based with some grade exceptions depending on the locale. If you are looking for grade based, school is your best bet.

If ECNL is age based why do they care about trapped (in school) players?

You cant have it both ways.

[Anonymous]

Watching crazy people twist themselves into a pretzel trying to defend some stupid idea like Seasonal Year is entertaining.

Just give up and be honest its called School Year because ECNL wants to align to grade in school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So a question to the people that say a kid is playing down if they are sept birthdays but started school on time. 1 kid started school on time is late Sept Birthday and is on grade level. The other is a few weeks older but parents started kid late so is 1 grade lower. So according to the logic here the kid that went to school on time is going to be playing down but the older kid who is a grade lower isnt? All they are doing is moving the cut off by 5 months no one is playing down if they fall within that 12 month period.

The conversation around grades in this thread is off the rails, simply because what is ON grade level? Parents do all sorts of things, usually based on that specific kid that kid's needs. That's why the club soccer power that be use AGE, not grade. It is a wise choice.

I know who's planning to cheat by playing down against younger players.

Some people have no class or self awareness.

According to this definition, the oldest kid in each group -- such as Aug. 1 -- is the only one not playing down. That's crazy!

Exactly! Lol

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I just don't understand why a parent would fight for their kid to play down. When i was young if you werem't the same ability as kids your age you didnt play.

The crazy parents were the ones fighting for their kid to play up against older players on an older team. Sometimes these parents were justified. Sometimes they thought their kid was better than they were. But it didn't matter because the older kids would sort that out on the field with the younger player.

The push to playi down started 20 years ago but became more mainstream 10 years ago. You see it all the time at private schools.16 year old freshman are becoming the norm for private schools that recruit.

Youth Soccer has always been grouped based on a 12 month calendar. The cheaters hate it and want to change soccer into another GY sport. This will never happen because clubs control competition and college recruitment pathways. Clubs make much more money not implementing GY not allowing players to play down.

Adding on...

This is why Christian Lavars (the ECNL grand puba) said on the first podcast where they brought up switching from BY to SY. That he didnt agree with players playing down. He said this to calm all the ECNL clubs that know GY would quickly translate into less revenue if implemented.

FYI, the discussion was in reference to playing down on age when trapped and had nothing to do with school grades. He said this because it created temporary disruptions for the younger team; like too many players for half a season. They also were/are generally against playing up in age except in very rare cases.

So the change from BY to SY was to accommodate more players playing with their grade in school...

Got it

Exactly! You cant have it both ways.

ECNL is going to implement a rule not allowing Aug birthdays to play down with players a grade below then in school.

They aren't.

But yet they will.

And even if they dont others will if they switch to SY just to annoy ECNL.

Continuing to allow playing down will make ECNL look lik a rec league.

Having a 12-month age group isn't playing down.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm so confused - what's all this playing down talk even about? It's always been a 12 month calendar, and it is still going to be a 12 month calendar.

It was a 12 month calendar starting on 1/1

ECNL USYS and other mostly littles leagues like SOCAL will be changing from 1/1 to 8/1 *

* Because school districts start at different times. Theres a possibility that Aug birthdays could play down a grade instead of on a team with players their grade in school. ECNL + others will implement a rule not allowing this to address and avoid the issue.

The other playing down comments are by some High School (probably private) parent thats introducing GY into the discussion to confuse everyone and get GY into youth soccer. Which will never happen.

Thanks for the breakdown.

As to the first point, Aug kids playing down a grade isn't playing down if they're inside the 12 month window, but I can see why people are using the phrase "playing down" even though it is not "playing down" in the true sense, i.e. playing down in age to gain an advantage. I'd be surprised if they make rule a forcing kids to play outside their 12-month window to their potential disadvantage. Seems like they picked Aug. 1 to give those kids the option, which most kids will likely choose to play on grade anyway. But forcing someone to play with older kids doesn't seem to be the best option.

As to the second point, I don't see that happening either. Soccer has always been a 12 month system. Maybe those people clamoring for true GY can switch to basketball or lacrosse.

Allowing Aug birthdays to play on a team with kids a grade below them has no upside. Not allowing Aug birthdays to play on a grade below them team guarantees that everyone on the field during games will be graduating the same year. Which is what college recruiters want.

Lots of Sept birthday kids are the grade above and chose to start early. My daughters ECNL team has 3 Aug-Dec players all 3 are in the grade above.