ECNL moving to school year part 2

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:ECNL podcast already said they can not fix all trapped player issues, they will play based off a 1 year calendar. That will include some higher grades playing with some lower grades it will just drastically less. Also US soccer rules show they need to follow that same calendar year round and for nationals.

Showcases are the only gray area at this point.

Your ECNL Messiah Christian Lavars also said that he doesnt want players playing down.

Sooo....

What's your definition of playing down?

Play one or two grade lower, or play against players more than 12 months younger. Playing down is shameful IMHO.

Everybody has opinions but classifying everybody above freshmen in HS or college and second year players in U19 as shameful is shameful.

He is talking about playing down in p2p club soccer and you are changing the topic to school sports in order to give a punch, typical liberal dimwit.

Unfortunately, grades aren't a P2P club thing, there are for school soccer and sometimes rec.

A Junior or even a Sophomore will not play down in the Frosh team with Freshmen. It is a dignity issue. My kid would rather do pickup if he can not make the JV team as a Sophomore this year. For a Freshman who plays with Juniors in the JV team, he is playing up, not the Juniors playing down in his own team. The same applies to clubs; if your kid plays down in a team with players who are one or two grades lower or more than 12 months younger, you are playing down and should feel ashamed of yourself.

No, kids should NOT feel ashamed if they play JV as a sophomore or junior with freshmen. All that means is either you don't have enough players OR the freshmen is at a level that can play with older kids. Either way, having that player(s) is a GOOD thing, because everyone is playing a game they love (hopefully) – soccer.

This is loser talk. Nobody that plays sports feels this way. Playing down is shameful and should not be encouraged.

Wow, judgemental on kids that get assigned teams based on their age and what their parents can afford. Nice. And although not related to club soccer, kids don't pick their grade either. Hate the game not the playa.

Not judgemental at all. Sometimes some kids just dont have what it takes to play sports. Playing down wont change anything other than taking a spot from a kid that can actually compete against players their age.

Completely agree.

The kid that plays down is equivalent to a trans kid. Nobody wants them around. Theyre weitd and different. The parent (typically a mom) is pressuring them to play and fighting all kinds of battles for them to do so. In the end the kid will go nowhere in the sport.

[Anonymous]

I just don't understand why a parent would fight for their kid to play down. When i was young if you werem't the same ability as kids your age you didnt play.

The crazy parents were the ones fighting for their kid to play up against older players on an older team. Sometimes these parents were justified. Sometimes they thought their kid was better than they were. But it didn't matter because the older kids would sort that out on the field with the younger player.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I just don't understand why a parent would fight for their kid to play down. When i was young if you werem't the same ability as kids your age you didnt play.

The crazy parents were the ones fighting for their kid to play up against older players on an older team. Sometimes these parents were justified. Sometimes they thought their kid was better than they were. But it didn't matter because the older kids would sort that out on the field with the younger player.

The push to playi down started 20 years ago but became more mainstream 10 years ago. You see it all the time at private schools.16 year old freshman are becoming the norm for private schools that recruit.

Youth Soccer has always been grouped based on a 12 month calendar. The cheaters hate it and want to change soccer into another GY sport. This will never happen because clubs control competition and college recruitment pathways. Clubs make much more money not implementing GY not allowing players to play down.

[Anonymous]

I'm so confused - what's all this playing down talk even about? It's always been a 12 month calendar, and it is still going to be a 12 month calendar.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I just don't understand why a parent would fight for their kid to play down. When i was young if you werem't the same ability as kids your age you didnt play.

The crazy parents were the ones fighting for their kid to play up against older players on an older team. Sometimes these parents were justified. Sometimes they thought their kid was better than they were. But it didn't matter because the older kids would sort that out on the field with the younger player.

The push to playi down started 20 years ago but became more mainstream 10 years ago. You see it all the time at private schools.16 year old freshman are becoming the norm for private schools that recruit.

Youth Soccer has always been grouped based on a 12 month calendar. The cheaters hate it and want to change soccer into another GY sport. This will never happen because clubs control competition and college recruitment pathways. Clubs make much more money not implementing GY not allowing players to play down.

Adding on...

This is why Christian Lavars (the ECNL grand puba) said on the first podcast where they brought up switching from BY to SY. That he didnt agree with players playing down. He said this to calm all the ECNL clubs that know GY would quickly translate into less revenue if implemented.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I'm so confused - what's all this playing down talk even about? It's always been a 12 month calendar, and it is still going to be a 12 month calendar.

It was a 12 month calendar starting on 1/1

ECNL USYS and other mostly littles leagues like SOCAL will be changing from 1/1 to 8/1 *

* Because school districts start at different times. Theres a possibility that Aug birthdays could play down a grade instead of on a team with players their grade in school. ECNL + others will implement a rule not allowing this to address and avoid the issue.

The other playing down comments are by some High School (probably private) parent thats introducing GY into the discussion to confuse everyone and get GY into youth soccer. Which will never happen.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm so confused - what's all this playing down talk even about? It's always been a 12 month calendar, and it is still going to be a 12 month calendar.

It was a 12 month calendar starting on 1/1

ECNL USYS and other mostly littles leagues like SOCAL will be changing from 1/1 to 8/1 *

* Because school districts start at different times. Theres a possibility that Aug birthdays could play down a grade instead of on a team with players their grade in school. ECNL + others will implement a rule not allowing this to address and avoid the issue.

The other playing down comments are by some High School (probably private) parent thats introducing GY into the discussion to confuse everyone and get GY into youth soccer. Which will never happen.

Thanks for the breakdown.

As to the first point, Aug kids playing down a grade isn't playing down if they're inside the 12 month window, but I can see why people are using the phrase "playing down" even though it is not "playing down" in the true sense, i.e. playing down in age to gain an advantage. I'd be surprised if they make rule a forcing kids to play outside their 12-month window to their potential disadvantage. Seems like they picked Aug. 1 to give those kids the option, which most kids will likely choose to play on grade anyway. But forcing someone to play with older kids doesn't seem to be the best option.

As to the second point, I don't see that happening either. Soccer has always been a 12 month system. Maybe those people clamoring for true GY can switch to basketball or lacrosse.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm so confused - what's all this playing down talk even about? It's always been a 12 month calendar, and it is still going to be a 12 month calendar.

It was a 12 month calendar starting on 1/1

ECNL USYS and other mostly littles leagues like SOCAL will be changing from 1/1 to 8/1 *

* Because school districts start at different times. Theres a possibility that Aug birthdays could play down a grade instead of on a team with players their grade in school. ECNL + others will implement a rule not allowing this to address and avoid the issue.

The other playing down comments are by some High School (probably private) parent thats introducing GY into the discussion to confuse everyone and get GY into youth soccer. Which will never happen.

Thanks for the breakdown.

As to the first point, Aug kids playing down a grade isn't playing down if they're inside the 12 month window, but I can see why people are using the phrase "playing down" even though it is not "playing down" in the true sense, i.e. playing down in age to gain an advantage. I'd be surprised if they make rule a forcing kids to play outside their 12-month window to their potential disadvantage. Seems like they picked Aug. 1 to give those kids the option, which most kids will likely choose to play on grade anyway. But forcing someone to play with older kids doesn't seem to be the best option.

As to the second point, I don't see that happening either. Soccer has always been a 12 month system. Maybe those people clamoring for true GY can switch to basketball or lacrosse.

Allowing Aug birthdays to play on a team with kids a grade below them has no upside. Not allowing Aug birthdays to play on a grade below them team guarantees that everyone on the field during games will be graduating the same year. Which is what college recruiters want.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm so confused - what's all this playing down talk even about? It's always been a 12 month calendar, and it is still going to be a 12 month calendar.

It was a 12 month calendar starting on 1/1

ECNL USYS and other mostly littles leagues like SOCAL will be changing from 1/1 to 8/1 *

* Because school districts start at different times. Theres a possibility that Aug birthdays could play down a grade instead of on a team with players their grade in school. ECNL + others will implement a rule not allowing this to address and avoid the issue.

The other playing down comments are by some High School (probably private) parent thats introducing GY into the discussion to confuse everyone and get GY into youth soccer. Which will never happen.

Thanks for the breakdown.

As to the first point, Aug kids playing down a grade isn't playing down if they're inside the 12 month window, but I can see why people are using the phrase "playing down" even though it is not "playing down" in the true sense, i.e. playing down in age to gain an advantage. I'd be surprised if they make rule a forcing kids to play outside their 12-month window to their potential disadvantage. Seems like they picked Aug. 1 to give those kids the option, which most kids will likely choose to play on grade anyway. But forcing someone to play with older kids doesn't seem to be the best option.

As to the second point, I don't see that happening either. Soccer has always been a 12 month system. Maybe those people clamoring for true GY can switch to basketball or lacrosse.

Allowing Aug birthdays to play on a team with kids a grade below them has no upside. Not allowing Aug birthdays to play on a grade below them team guarantees that everyone on the field during games will be graduating the same year. Which is what college recruiters want.

But we're not just talking about kids who want to be recruited, etc. We're talking about the entire soccer ecosystem. I don't disagree that there is little upside, but if you're a small Aug. kid forced to play with an older age group, then there could be a really big downside. The key is to not force those kids to do anything. If they want to and are fine with playing a grade below, then go for it. I think they would understand the difficulty with recruiting, etc. if that was something on their radar to begin with. If they want to play on grade, but be young, then go for it too!

[Anonymous]

It’s 8/1-7/31.

The only time SY comes into play is if it’s only a recruiting event, like college ID camps. Showcases could be based on SY as well but only if they are strictly showcase games and results don’t count for anything. Maybe this will change, maybe not.

Kids playing in an age group that is misaligned with their grade will be at a disadvantage for recruiting, even more so than prior to the age change because there are so many fewer of them. Most kids will be aligned correctly so college coaches will have less incentive to watch games outside of their recruiting year target. Ultimately that’s for those players so figure out with their club. When it comes time for recruiting hopefully these kids are able to play up, after all they would be play with/against the same kids they are competing with for college roster spots.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I'm so confused - what's all this playing down talk even about? It's always been a 12 month calendar, and it is still going to be a 12 month calendar.

Because the when I was young, accusing someone who doesn't agree as being a liberal and hating on trans has entered the room completely out of nowhere.

Club soccer doesn't play by grade of course but for older folks they can't adjust that club soccer is age based but tries in the end to lineup the older few who want to play college on a grade schedule.

Always going to be hateful self righteous codgers that complain about everything to make themselves good but yeah, funny that they are arguing about something that isn't even in p2p soccer.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote: after all they would be play with/against the same kids they are competing with for college roster spots.

Unfortunately that is increasingly not the case. Your kid is not competing against "the same kids" but against 20-23 year old international players. At least on the men's side.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:ECNL podcast already said they can not fix all trapped player issues, they will play based off a 1 year calendar. That will include some higher grades playing with some lower grades it will just drastically less. Also US soccer rules show they need to follow that same calendar year round and for nationals.

Showcases are the only gray area at this point.

Your ECNL Messiah Christian Lavars also said that he doesnt want players playing down.

Sooo....

What's your definition of playing down?

Play one or two grade lower, or play against players more than 12 months younger. Playing down is shameful IMHO.

Everybody has opinions but classifying everybody above freshmen in HS or college and second year players in U19 as shameful is shameful.

He is talking about playing down in p2p club soccer and you are changing the topic to school sports in order to give a punch, typical liberal dimwit.

Unfortunately, grades aren't a P2P club thing, there are for school soccer and sometimes rec.

A Junior or even a Sophomore will not play down in the Frosh team with Freshmen. It is a dignity issue. My kid would rather do pickup if he can not make the JV team as a Sophomore this year. For a Freshman who plays with Juniors in the JV team, he is playing up, not the Juniors playing down in his own team. The same applies to clubs; if your kid plays down in a team with players who are one or two grades lower or more than 12 months younger, you are playing down and should feel ashamed of yourself.

No, kids should NOT feel ashamed if they play JV as a sophomore or junior with freshmen. All that means is either you don't have enough players OR the freshmen is at a level that can play with older kids. Either way, having that player(s) is a GOOD thing, because everyone is playing a game they love (hopefully) – soccer.

This is loser talk. Nobody that plays sports feels this way. Playing down is shameful and should not be encouraged.

Wow, judgemental on kids that get assigned teams based on their age and what their parents can afford. Nice. And although not related to club soccer, kids don't pick their grade either. Hate the game not the playa.

Not judgemental at all. Sometimes some kids just dont have what it takes to play sports. Playing down wont change anything other than taking a spot from a kid that can actually compete against players their age.

Only late developers in MLSN can play down. Not allowed in other leagues.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm so confused - what's all this playing down talk even about? It's always been a 12 month calendar, and it is still going to be a 12 month calendar.

It was a 12 month calendar starting on 1/1

ECNL USYS and other mostly littles leagues like SOCAL will be changing from 1/1 to 8/1 *

* Because school districts start at different times. Theres a possibility that Aug birthdays could play down a grade instead of on a team with players their grade in school. ECNL + others will implement a rule not allowing this to address and avoid the issue.

The other playing down comments are by some High School (probably private) parent thats introducing GY into the discussion to confuse everyone and get GY into youth soccer. Which will never happen.

Thanks for the breakdown.

As to the first point, Aug kids playing down a grade isn't playing down if they're inside the 12 month window, but I can see why people are using the phrase "playing down" even though it is not "playing down" in the true sense, i.e. playing down in age to gain an advantage. I'd be surprised if they make rule a forcing kids to play outside their 12-month window to their potential disadvantage. Seems like they picked Aug. 1 to give those kids the option, which most kids will likely choose to play on grade anyway. But forcing someone to play with older kids doesn't seem to be the best option.

As to the second point, I don't see that happening either. Soccer has always been a 12 month system. Maybe those people clamoring for true GY can switch to basketball or lacrosse.

Allowing Aug birthdays to play on a team with kids a grade below them has no upside. Not allowing Aug birthdays to play on a grade below them team guarantees that everyone on the field during games will be graduating the same year. Which is what college recruiters want.

But we're not just talking about kids who want to be recruited, etc. We're talking about the entire soccer ecosystem. I don't disagree that there is little upside, but if you're a small Aug. kid forced to play with an older age group, then there could be a really big downside. The key is to not force those kids to do anything. If they want to and are fine with playing a grade below, then go for it. I think they would understand the difficulty with recruiting, etc. if that was something on their radar to begin with. If they want to play on grade, but be young, then go for it too!

Every time a player plays down with younger players they take a spot away from a player thats the correct grade/age.

I like how all the SY people are trying to distance themselves from grade in school when this is what they told everyone was the primary reason for switching from BY.

Theres 2 ways you address the playing down issue. You can change the eligibility window to 13 months and qualify to 13th month for grade enrolled (SY+30). Or you keep it 12 months but make a rule that the 11th month (Aug) isnt allowed to play down on a team with players a grade younger.

I get that you're want to keep things "fair" with the same eligibility window for all players. But this just isnt possible if you want to field teams where all players are rhe same grade in school. Also the 12 month window is arbitrary theres nothing set in stone that its how things have to work.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I just don't understand why a parent would fight for their kid to play down. When i was young if you werem't the same ability as kids your age you didnt play.

The crazy parents were the ones fighting for their kid to play up against older players on an older team. Sometimes these parents were justified. Sometimes they thought their kid was better than they were. But it didn't matter because the older kids would sort that out on the field with the younger player.

The push to playi down started 20 years ago but became more mainstream 10 years ago. You see it all the time at private schools.16 year old freshman are becoming the norm for private schools that recruit.

Youth Soccer has always been grouped based on a 12 month calendar. The cheaters hate it and want to change soccer into another GY sport. This will never happen because clubs control competition and college recruitment pathways. Clubs make much more money not implementing GY not allowing players to play down.

Adding on...

This is why Christian Lavars (the ECNL grand puba) said on the first podcast where they brought up switching from BY to SY. That he didnt agree with players playing down. He said this to calm all the ECNL clubs that know GY would quickly translate into less revenue if implemented.

FYI, the discussion was in reference to playing down on age when trapped and had nothing to do with school grades. He said this because it created temporary disruptions for the younger team; like too many players for half a season. They also were/are generally against playing up in age except in very rare cases.