Tourist submersible missing on visit to Titanic

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is a long thread, so I don't know if this is already been mentioned. But the reason that the owner of the vessel was able to cut so many corners was because they were exploring an international waters, so no laws applied. Not US regulations nor any other country's regulation applied to this exploration. The business owner of this venture is a piece of sh!t.

The passengers should have done their due diligence. I am shocked that such wealthy people would have climbed into this tin can. James Cameron has been to the same wreck dozens of times and is still around to tell the tale.

Was it significantly cheaper to get on the Titan or is there a long waiting list for other submersibles? Maybe it’s pretty much impossible to get a seat on one of the known, certified submersibles?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What does this mean? The Guardian just quoted someone saying this incident has ruined future research that could have been done on the Titanic wreck site. Why?

“The chances of any future research being carried out on the wreck of Titanic is extremely slim. Probably not in my lifetime.”

The legit research orgs that safely explored the Titanic site for the past 25+ years are probably now uninsurable.

There were 3-D scans recently done of Titanic and the results are amazing.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R2XtefrMNhg

Most everyone agrees in a couple decades Titanic will be gone. I doubt you could ever get a better view than this, especially not out of a tiny portal window.

[Anonymous]

I found this interesting to read. Description/ad about the 2021 Oceangate expedition.

https://www.travelawaits.com/2479052/how-much-to-visit-titanic-in-2021/#:~:text=How%20Much%20Does%20It%20Cost,%24125%2C000%20for%20the%20entire%20journey.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is a long thread, so I don't know if this is already been mentioned. But the reason that the owner of the vessel was able to cut so many corners was because they were exploring an international waters, so no laws applied. Not US regulations nor any other country's regulation applied to this exploration. The business owner of this venture is a piece of sh!t.

The passengers should have done their due diligence. I am shocked that such wealthy people would have climbed into this tin can. James Cameron has been to the same wreck dozens of times and is still around to tell the tale.

Was it significantly cheaper to get on the Titan or is there a long waiting list for other submersibles? Maybe it’s pretty much impossible to get a seat on one of the known, certified submersibles?

Cameron has his own deep sea exploration company and his own subs. You have a point. I don’t think the others offer commercial tours, probably for very good reasons.

[Anonymous]

My grandpa always used to say "big egos have tiny ears".

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I disagree that this isn't a traumatizing story. Obviously levels of trauma vary significantly and many many people are able to read (and even laugh ) about it without feeling any personal impact. But this is really tough to know about for "deep feeling" people, and it absolutely has a negative collective impact on mental health.

I hope these people are found and rescued, and that with their billions they will pay back the costs of being rescued from what I agree was entirely a vanity project at now great financial and emotional cost to the public. It's horrifying and I hope they are able to be saved. I can't imagine what their families are going through.

This is the best post and I agree 100%

Some people here should be ashamed of themselves.

The teen on board is especially upsetting.

Ok, but question for you two - how do you manage to get out of bed much less function on a daily basis with the amount of suffering and death that occurs every second around the world? I can think of many, many situations that are far worse for people (especially because they didn't put themselves in those situations!), that break my heart more than this. Yes, this is sad, it's sad when (almost anyone) dies, especially in a manner like this. But it's not remotely as sad as children dying of starvation, children being sold off into sex slavery, migrants dying trying to cross a body of water. I could go on and on. So if THIS is what you want to categorize as traumatizing, how do you handle everything else that's going on?

I’m the poster who originally posited that this is a potentially traumatic incident for many millions of people. Recent decades of research in psychology and neuroscience has clearly established that our brains are impacted by vicarious trauma, folks who work in fields where they are witness to traumatic experiences are clearly affected. Some people are affected more than others - there is now growing consensus that some people, perhaps ~30%, are highly sensitive people upon whom trauma had greater impact than others.

I actually *do* struggle every day with how to cope with psychological anguish I feel considering the suffering of others I have never met - victims of the war in Ukraine, starving children in the Sudan, girls and women raped and murdered all over the world as a weapon of war and/or misogyny.

In this case I am not traumatized so much by the loss of these five people but rather by the manner of the deaths - as the whole world contemplates whether they were blown to bits in a sudden depressurization or whether they are experiencing the hellish agony of a long slow descent into madness and suffocation.

That makes sense. An ER doctor, for example, is a participant in trauma situations, so I see how that can be traumatizing to them.

You have never met these people. You aren't in the water looking for them. You are sitting at home reading and typing on your computer.

Finally, I guarantee you that the whole world isn't contemplating this. The majority of the world has much bigger problems than whether these billionaires died underwater. And many people have no idea this is even going on. Do you honestly think the whole world is watching this? You are delusional.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The way some posters are reacting, it is a wonder two bicycle shop owners ever took their crazy contraption out to Kill Devil Hills in NC.

None of the people are stupid anymore than those who strive to go to space.

Just because you would never do it, doesn’t mean others shouldn’t!

I hope they rose to the surface and just haven’t been found yet.

These guys weren't inventors. They were tourists.

It's not even like Everest, where people have to train and be fit beyond imagining. These people just wrote a check.

False. They were Mission Specialists.

Without their participation, this scientific venture would not have moved forward.

People in this area claim to be in favor of Science, but when the rubber meets the road, it is all “hurr durr! They were privileged billionaires. Their fee for this trip would have been better spent on Teslas for the unhoused”

Do tell what science they were engaging in. Why safety measures on submarines are always a good idea? Mission accomplished. You are an absolute fool if you think science was anything but a thinly veiled guise for what this was really all about: vanity tourism.

Exactly…just like the rich people who pay to be hauled up Everest by sherpas aren’t explorers.

Absolutely. If you’ve ever read Into Thin Air it’s crazy how many of these people didn’t even have the right equipment and seemed not to know what they were doing at all. But then millions of dollars and resources weren’t put into rescue attempts at the summit simply because everyone knew there was no point.

That's what I was thinking, and wondering how is this different? People who climb Everest know that at a certain point high enough on the mountain, you either get yourself down on your own power, or you die. That's just how it is. You can't fly a helicopter up there or carry somebody down. One of the guides on that Everest trip was in radio contact with base camp and his pregnant wife as he froze to death. They all knew help was not on the way. How is this sub different? Don't you know (or do your due diligence before forking over $250k and learn) that if something goes wrong on the ocean floor, there's no saving you?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Does anyone think the vessel will actually ever be found? It's a literal needle in a huge haystack.

It's a FIGURATIVE needle in a haystack. A literal needle in a haystack would be a needle in a haystack.

+1 come on now.

I’m not the first PP, but people use literal in the non-literal sense, as a way of saying “in effect.”

I’m sure you knew this, though. Don’t be pedantic.

The word irregardless has also made its way into the dictionary because people have used it for so long that somehow it became a word when in fact it should not be a word.

Just because people use the term literally in the non-literal sense doesn't make it right.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is a long thread, so I don't know if this is already been mentioned. But the reason that the owner of the vessel was able to cut so many corners was because they were exploring an international waters, so no laws applied. Not US regulations nor any other country's regulation applied to this exploration. The business owner of this venture is a piece of sh!t.

The passengers should have done their due diligence. I am shocked that such wealthy people would have climbed into this tin can. James Cameron has been to the same wreck dozens of times and is still around to tell the tale.

Was it significantly cheaper to get on the Titan or is there a long waiting list for other submersibles? Maybe it’s pretty much impossible to get a seat on one of the known, certified submersibles?

Cameron has his own deep sea exploration company and his own subs. You have a point. I don’t think the others offer commercial tours, probably for very good reasons.

I have been trying to find this answer to the James Cameron stuff. I assume he was on a sub made from the highest standards, and a slew of support to safely do the whole exploration? Were his research trips just of a completely different element?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:is anyone keeping vigil tonight? i can't sleep thinking about the whereabouts of the submersible...

Ugh. Stop trying to make this about yourself.

Ugh. Stop being such a cruel, selfish jerk.

You need to be evaluated if you are sleepless over a bunch of idiot billionaires getting their rocks off doing dumb stuff.

+1

I am a pretty empathetic person. I get really emotional over news stories about children being dropped over the border wall, kids falling into holes in the ground, domestic violence, war refugees, etc. I’m captivated by this story in a thought exercise sort of way, and learning about the deep ocean. But these were mostly grown men with every resource in the world who knew they were putting themselves at risk just for fun. I do feel sad for the 19 year old who was probably trusting that his dad wouldn’t put him in real danger. But overall, this story isn’t causing me a lot of emotional distress.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Does anyone think the vessel will actually ever be found? It's a literal needle in a huge haystack.

It's a FIGURATIVE needle in a haystack. A literal needle in a haystack would be a needle in a haystack.

+1 come on now.

I’m not the first PP, but people use literal in the non-literal sense, as a way of saying “in effect.”

I’m sure you knew this, though. Don’t be pedantic.

+1

Actually, people use it as an intensifier of a phrase. Like mark Twain when he said something like “the man was literally rolling in money.”

The more you know. 🌈

Yes, or the person was literally on fire during their speech. This wasn't used as an intensifier though. The more you know.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What does this mean? The Guardian just quoted someone saying this incident has ruined future research that could have been done on the Titanic wreck site. Why?

“The chances of any future research being carried out on the wreck of Titanic is extremely slim. Probably not in my lifetime.”

The legit research orgs that safely explored the Titanic site for the past 25+ years are probably now uninsurable.

Why do humans even need to be down there? Seems the ROVs have done a fine job exploring the Titanic and transmitting images of the wreckage. People aren't going to like, dive around in the ship Little Mermaid style, so why do they need to go at all if they're just looking out a porthole or at a computer screen?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The way some posters are reacting, it is a wonder two bicycle shop owners ever took their crazy contraption out to Kill Devil Hills in NC.

None of the people are stupid anymore than those who strive to go to space.

Just because you would never do it, doesn’t mean others shouldn’t!

I hope they rose to the surface and just haven’t been found yet.

These guys weren't inventors. They were tourists.

It's not even like Everest, where people have to train and be fit beyond imagining. These people just wrote a check.

False. They were Mission Specialists.

Without their participation, this scientific venture would not have moved forward.

People in this area claim to be in favor of Science, but when the rubber meets the road, it is all “hurr durr! They were privileged billionaires. Their fee for this trip would have been better spent on Teslas for the unhoused”

Check out some videos of these brave MISSION SPECIALISTS piloting the Titan sub into a rock. https://www.tiktok.com/@foodinageoffy/video/7247327442665213190?_r=1&_t=8dNh05pKyuH&social_sharing=v4

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The way some posters are reacting, it is a wonder two bicycle shop owners ever took their crazy contraption out to Kill Devil Hills in NC.

None of the people are stupid anymore than those who strive to go to space.

Just because you would never do it, doesn’t mean others shouldn’t!

I hope they rose to the surface and just haven’t been found yet.

These guys weren't inventors. They were tourists.

It's not even like Everest, where people have to train and be fit beyond imagining. These people just wrote a check.

False. They were Mission Specialists.

Without their participation, this scientific venture would not have moved forward.

People in this area claim to be in favor of Science, but when the rubber meets the road, it is all “hurr durr! They were privileged billionaires. Their fee for this trip would have been better spent on Teslas for the unhoused”

Do tell what science they were engaging in. Why safety measures on submarines are always a good idea? Mission accomplished. You are an absolute fool if you think science was anything but a thinly veiled guise for what this was really all about: vanity tourism.

Exactly…just like the rich people who pay to be hauled up Everest by sherpas aren’t explorers.

Absolutely. If you’ve ever read Into Thin Air it’s crazy how many of these people didn’t even have the right equipment and seemed not to know what they were doing at all. But then millions of dollars and resources weren’t put into rescue attempts at the summit simply because everyone knew there was no point.

That's what I was thinking, and wondering how is this different? People who climb Everest know that at a certain point high enough on the mountain, you either get yourself down on your own power, or you die. That's just how it is. You can't fly a helicopter up there or carry somebody down. One of the guides on that Everest trip was in radio contact with base camp and his pregnant wife as he froze to death. They all knew help was not on the way. How is this sub different? Don't you know (or do your due diligence before forking over $250k and learn) that if something goes wrong on the ocean floor, there's no saving you?

There is no difference. Which is why it a legitimate question to ask why so much money is being expended trying to do it here.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is a long thread, so I don't know if this is already been mentioned. But the reason that the owner of the vessel was able to cut so many corners was because they were exploring an international waters, so no laws applied. Not US regulations nor any other country's regulation applied to this exploration. The business owner of this venture is a piece of sh!t.

The passengers should have done their due diligence. I am shocked that such wealthy people would have climbed into this tin can. James Cameron has been to the same wreck dozens of times and is still around to tell the tale.

Was it significantly cheaper to get on the Titan or is there a long waiting list for other submersibles? Maybe it’s pretty much impossible to get a seat on one of the known, certified submersibles?

Cameron has his own deep sea exploration company and his own subs. You have a point. I don’t think the others offer commercial tours, probably for very good reasons.

I have been trying to find this answer to the James Cameron stuff. I assume he was on a sub made from the highest standards, and a slew of support to safely do the whole exploration? Were his research trips just of a completely different element?

https://www.businessinsider.com/see-inside-triton-submersibles-submarines-james-cameron-ray-dalio-backed-2023-1