WSJ: the Secrets of Elite College Admissions

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

There were 15000 NMF in 2019. Each can enroll at a colleges that offer full rides to NM Finalists (Alabama, Arizona, AZ State etc) but many many whose family can afford it rather attend T20 schools, even though those schools provide little/no merit aid. Most people only get one shot at an undergrad education, so the choose to spend the $$$$ rather that save money and risk regret later.

Don't like over 90% of kids attend college within a few hours from home? I assume the 15,000 NMF are more mobile than their peers but most of the very smart students I've seen still stay in state or attend a neighboring state -- going across the country for school seems really rare.

The only data point I have is from my DC's school: only 8 of 51 NMFs went to a school w/in 4 hour's drive. Less than 50% stayed in state; 3 went to Harvard.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Good, solid, high-ranking schools are where if you have certain stats and $$$$, you can pretty much predict your chances. Elite schools, on the other hand, are crapshoot schools where you have the stats and $$$$$, but you are still not a shoo in.

Apparently at Lafayette you can’t do that. There were full pay 1580+ kids rejected last year.

Obviously yield protection. Those kids weren't going to go there even if accepted.

They give full tuition scholarships.

If a student is full ride at Lafayette or full pay at ivy, s/he might choose ivy. In fact, at top ivys, most students have turned down full ride options at lesser schools. For those flushed with cash, I can easily imagine their paying full tuition for top ivies.

Your complete lack of factual knowledge never seems to stop you from posting your utterly worthless opinions. And i immediately dismiss anybody that uses the term “top ivy” as an ignorant imbecile. Why do you even haunt this forum? Based on your grammar and diction it doesn’t appear that you even graduated from college.

Many high hitters attending the highest-level unis have full-tuition rides at lesser-known schools. I am speaking from experience.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Good, solid, high-ranking schools are where if you have certain stats and $$$$, you can pretty much predict your chances. Elite schools, on the other hand, are crapshoot schools where you have the stats and $$$$$, but you are still not a shoo in.

Apparently at Lafayette you can’t do that. There were full pay 1580+ kids rejected last year.

Obviously yield protection. Those kids weren't going to go there even if accepted.

They give full tuition scholarships.

If a student is full ride at Lafayette or full pay at ivy, s/he might choose ivy. In fact, at top ivys, most students have turned down full ride options at lesser schools. For those flushed with cash, I can easily imagine their paying full tuition for top ivies.

Your complete lack of factual knowledge never seems to stop you from posting your utterly worthless opinions. And i immediately dismiss anybody that uses the term “top ivy” as an ignorant imbecile. Why do you even haunt this forum? Based on your grammar and diction it doesn’t appear that you even graduated from college.

You obviously went to Cornell and can only afford Lafayette now.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

There were 15000 NMF in 2019. Each can enroll at a colleges that offer full rides to NM Finalists (Alabama, Arizona, AZ State etc) but many many whose family can afford it rather attend T20 schools, even though those schools provide little/no merit aid. Most people only get one shot at an undergrad education, so the choose to spend the $$$$ rather that save money and risk regret later.

Don't like over 90% of kids attend college within a few hours from home? I assume the 15,000 NMF are more mobile than their peers but most of the very smart students I've seen still stay in state or attend a neighboring state -- going across the country for school seems really rare.

The only data point I have is from my DC's school: only 8 of 51 NMFs went to a school w/in 4 hour's drive. Less than 50% stayed in state; 3 went to Harvard.

Rich/UMC kids are more likely to go far away for collehe

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

There were 15000 NMF in 2019. Each can enroll at a colleges that offer full rides to NM Finalists (Alabama, Arizona, AZ State etc) but many many whose family can afford it rather attend T20 schools, even though those schools provide little/no merit aid. Most people only get one shot at an undergrad education, so the choose to spend the $$$$ rather that save money and risk regret later.

Don't like over 90% of kids attend college within a few hours from home? I assume the 15,000 NMF are more mobile than their peers but most of the very smart students I've seen still stay in state or attend a neighboring state -- going across the country for school seems really rare.

The only data point I have is from my DC's school: only 8 of 51 NMFs went to a school w/in 4 hour's drive. Less than 50% stayed in state; 3 went to Harvard.

Rich/UMC kids are more likely to go far away for collehe

While most others factor in the cost of transportation and will not go to a school that requires airfare to get there and home several times a year.

[Anonymous]

Tuition at these T20s costs upwards of 50k, housing another 15k, making airfare insignificant. Again, likely no/minimal merit aid since you're competing with the best.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Tuition at these T20s costs upwards of 50k, housing another 15k, making airfare insignificant. Again, likely no/minimal merit aid since you're competing with the best.

Ivies and other top schools offer no merit.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Tuition at these T20s costs upwards of 50k, housing another 15k, making airfare insignificant. Again, likely no/minimal merit aid since you're competing with the best.

If you’re full pay maybe the cost of airfare is insignificant. But there are non-full pay kids at t20s who can’t go home every break.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:ED is available to every family.

ED is available. Sure. But “full need” is not the same as “best deal.”

Right, and nobody said it was. As was pointed out, and bolded, and yet still somehow missed by you, you can shop merit if you want to, but if you are looking for merit aid it is extremely likely you don't require any "ED advantage" from a college that would give you merit aid.

I’d write out a longer rebuttal, but let’s just say that pretending this is some kind of novel argument is quality gaslighting. See below.

Not if you understood the points, or cared to.

Are you that former admissions director who always wants to argue that everything about the existing system is perfect?

No, and I doubt such a person exists. But you clearly love hyperbole and misrepresentation of other's points, so please have at it.

Of course, ADs love ED. It makes their job soooo much easier. Yield is their bread and butter.

And your insight here is... ????

This is an older article, but it has a good history of ED and why it serves the interest of the colleges.

No one denies that ED is better for the colleges than the students. That's well established and if you had read even ONE book on the subject you would know that. But also no one with a brain denies that ED can be a HUGE advantage for a student, even those that require financial aid. It's very simple:

1. Determine is a college is affordable by running the NPCs.
2. If not, do not apply. If so, research if you think you would like to apply ED.
3. If ED offer is not consistent with NPC result that made you conclude it was affordable, then you are released from the ED commitment and can apply everywhere RD.

That's it. Nothing more, nothing less, and ANY family that wants to do the above can.

I could go on, but I’m tired of copying and pasting.

At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.

[Anonymous]

I could go on, but I’m tired of copying and pasting.

At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.

[Anonymous]

Most colleges are somewhat regional. Very few kids go to college hundreds or thousands of miles away. NE may distort this because all the NE states are so small.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Most colleges are somewhat regional. Very few kids go to college hundreds or thousands of miles away. NE may distort this because all the NE states are so small.

+1

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Top 15 or "Ivy Plus" has been a thing for a while.

Ivies make 8
Stanford, Duke, MIT, Chicago, Northwestern, Cal Tech (I guess?)...Hopkins? Makes 15.

I really can't think of a good reason to distinguish between Northwestern/Hopkins and schools like Vanderbilt, WUSTL, Rice, and Emory. Also, Caltech is better than MIT.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Most colleges are somewhat regional. Very few kids go to college hundreds or thousands of miles away. NE may distort this because all the NE states are so small.

True. But this thread is about Elite College Admissions. AOs from those schools build their incoming class with geographic diversity (and other diversities) as a goal.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Top 15 or "Ivy Plus" has been a thing for a while.

Ivies make 8
Stanford, Duke, MIT, Chicago, Northwestern, Cal Tech (I guess?)...Hopkins? Makes 15.

I really can't think of a good reason to distinguish between Northwestern/Hopkins and schools like Vanderbilt, WUSTL, Rice, and Emory. Also, Caltech is better than MIT.

Ivy Plus is not top 15, it is 12 schools. Ivy Plus is defined as: Ivy League, Duke, Stanford, MIT and Chicago.