WSJ: the Secrets of Elite College Admissions

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Good, solid, high-ranking schools are where if you have certain stats and $$$$, you can pretty much predict your chances. Elite schools, on the other hand, are crapshoot schools where you have the stats and $$$$$, but you are still not a shoo in.

Apparently at Lafayette you can’t do that. There were full pay 1580+ kids rejected last year.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Good, solid, high-ranking schools are where if you have certain stats and $$$$, you can pretty much predict your chances. Elite schools, on the other hand, are crapshoot schools where you have the stats and $$$$$, but you are still not a shoo in.

Apparently at Lafayette you can’t do that. There were full pay 1580+ kids rejected last year.

Smells yield protection. Full pay 1580+ kids have Ivy or other option aspirations.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Davidson College, Emory University and the University of Washington, aren’t exactly “elite.” They are solid, high ranking schools. Elite would be like T10.

Any reason to think the admissions process would be any different at a T10?

T10 endowments, baby. They can afford to meet all demonstrated student need.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Good, solid, high-ranking schools are where if you have certain stats and $$$$, you can pretty much predict your chances. Elite schools, on the other hand, are crapshoot schools where you have the stats and $$$$$, but you are still not a shoo in.

Apparently at Lafayette you can’t do that. There were full pay 1580+ kids rejected last year.

Smells yield protection. Full pay 1580+ kids have Ivy or other option aspirations.

Okay, but that means admission is not predictable even if you “have the stats” and “full pay.”

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Good, solid, high-ranking schools are where if you have certain stats and $$$$, you can pretty much predict your chances. Elite schools, on the other hand, are crapshoot schools where you have the stats and $$$$$, but you are still not a shoo in.

Apparently at Lafayette you can’t do that. There were full pay 1580+ kids rejected last year.

Obviously yield protection. Those kids weren't going to go there even if accepted.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Good, solid, high-ranking schools are where if you have certain stats and $$$$, you can pretty much predict your chances. Elite schools, on the other hand, are crapshoot schools where you have the stats and $$$$$, but you are still not a shoo in.

Apparently at Lafayette you can’t do that. There were full pay 1580+ kids rejected last year.

Obviously yield protection. Those kids weren't going to go there even if accepted.

They give full tuition scholarships.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Cornell is consistently in the top 15 in multiple worldwide rankings, consistently ahead of some of the other ivies. It's usually among the top 20 in nationwide rankings. Many of its programs (engineering, cs, plant and animal science, among others) are among the strongest in the nation. It's a unique university with a wide array of academic programs. I never understand why some bash the school and spread misinformation about it. It's the youngest ivy and was founded with an inclusive attitude toward women and minorities. It's weird that many of the haters don't seem to know much about it but jump in to trash the school whenever they see the name. Why compare Cornell to HYP? They're not trying to be HYP. They're a very different school.

+1 I don’t get the Cornell bashing. I’m sure it’s also people who could never be accepted there. So easy to be a snob.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Many lower income families need to weigh the aid packages against each other, and you can't do this with ED.

You can do it in advance by running the net price calculators. Every college has one by law.

Sigh. We keep having this discussion. First of all, all aid packages are not created equal. "Meeting need" doesn't mean they will necessarily give you a grant for the entire amount. It is also true that many private schools (and some publics) may also provide significant merit aid, which is not taken into account in the net price calculator. This can be a big factor for a kid that is toward the higher end of income of those who qualify for financial aid. This is why the system is most helpful to those who are very poor or rich.

https://blog.collegevine.com/schools-that-meet-100-percent-financial-need/

"Sigh". Yes we keep having this discussion, and you keep being wrong about whether any family can have a kid apply ED if the college is affordable. They absolutely can.

Merit Aid is a totally different thing, and that can also be researched. And lots of schools DO put the expected merit aid in the NPC. But guess what? With very few exceptions, if your kid is applying to a school where they will receive merit aid, they don't need any "advantage" from ED.

What you can afford should be determined long before you kid begins the application process. It should NOT be a "toss out the apps and we'll see which one is best". That is why the NPCs are so valuable.

No family should avoid ED for the reasons the PP above states. PP is completely wrong, and any admissions officer, financial aid officer, college counselor, or person in the know will tell you. If you doubt me, ask one, (or all) of them.

PP, you really need to stop this, you are possibly hurting families with your mis-information.

The NPC isn’t foolproof.

It’s pretty damned close if you do it right, and if the offer comes back wrong you are released from your ED commitment, so you have nothing to lose whatsoever.

ED is available to every family.

ED is available. Sure. But “full need” is not the same as “best deal.” I’d write out a longer rebuttal, but let’s just say that pretending this is some kind of novel argument is quality gaslighting. See below.

Are you that former admissions director who always wants to argue that everything about the existing system is perfect? Of course, ADs love ED. It makes their job soooo much easier. Yield is their bread and butter.

https://www.americanprogress.org/issues/race/news/2019/11/04/476789/early-decision-harms-students-color-low-income-students/

https://www.insidehighered.com/views/2017/01/12/discrimination-inherent-early-admissions-programs-essay

https://www.nytimes.com/2016/12/23/learning/are-early-decision-programs-unfair-should-colleges-do-away-with-them.html

https://www.chicagomaroon.com/article/2018/12/4/early-decision-unfairly-favors-wealthy-applicants/

This is an older article, but it has a good history of ED and why it serves the interest of the colleges.

https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2001/09/the-early-decision-racket/302280/

I could go on, but I’m tired of copying and pasting.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Davidson College, Emory University and the University of Washington, aren’t exactly “elite.” They are solid, high ranking schools. Elite would be like T10.

Any reason to think the admissions process would be any different at a T10?

T10 endowments, baby. They can afford to meet all demonstrated student need.

Is that why Stanford is cutting sports right and left

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Good, solid, high-ranking schools are where if you have certain stats and $$$$, you can pretty much predict your chances. Elite schools, on the other hand, are crapshoot schools where you have the stats and $$$$$, but you are still not a shoo in.

Apparently at Lafayette you can’t do that. There were full pay 1580+ kids rejected last year.

Obviously yield protection. Those kids weren't going to go there even if accepted.

They give full tuition scholarships.

If a student is full ride at Lafayette or full pay at ivy, s/he might choose ivy. In fact, at top ivys, most students have turned down full ride options at lesser schools. For those flushed with cash, I can easily imagine their paying full tuition for top ivies.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Cornell is consistently in the top 15 in multiple worldwide rankings, consistently ahead of some of the other ivies. It's usually among the top 20 in nationwide rankings. Many of its programs (engineering, cs, plant and animal science, among others) are among the strongest in the nation. It's a unique university with a wide array of academic programs. I never understand why some bash the school and spread misinformation about it. It's the youngest ivy and was founded with an inclusive attitude toward women and minorities. It's weird that many of the haters don't seem to know much about it but jump in to trash the school whenever they see the name. Why compare Cornell to HYP? They're not trying to be HYP. They're a very different school.

+1 I don’t get the Cornell bashing. I’m sure it’s also people who could never be accepted there. So easy to be a snob.

If you’ve ever seen Cornell students or alums, you’ll know why many people are less than impressed by these mediocre people with oversized ivy ego bigger than Harvard, Yale, Princeton, and Columbia.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Good, solid, high-ranking schools are where if you have certain stats and $$$$, you can pretty much predict your chances. Elite schools, on the other hand, are crapshoot schools where you have the stats and $$$$$, but you are still not a shoo in.

Apparently at Lafayette you can’t do that. There were full pay 1580+ kids rejected last year.

Obviously yield protection. Those kids weren't going to go there even if accepted.

They give full tuition scholarships.

If a student is full ride at Lafayette or full pay at ivy, s/he might choose ivy. In fact, at top ivys, most students have turned down full ride options at lesser schools. For those flushed with cash, I can easily imagine their paying full tuition for top ivies.

Yeah, I don't see why a "full pay" student would care about a full tuition scholarship as an inducement anyway; they can pay for the best school they get accepted to.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Good, solid, high-ranking schools are where if you have certain stats and $$$$, you can pretty much predict your chances. Elite schools, on the other hand, are crapshoot schools where you have the stats and $$$$$, but you are still not a shoo in.

Apparently at Lafayette you can’t do that. There were full pay 1580+ kids rejected last year.

Obviously yield protection. Those kids weren't going to go there even if accepted.

They give full tuition scholarships.

If a student is full ride at Lafayette or full pay at ivy, s/he might choose ivy. In fact, at top ivys, most students have turned down full ride options at lesser schools. For those flushed with cash, I can easily imagine their paying full tuition for top ivies.

There were 15000 NMF in 2019. Each can enroll at a colleges that offer full rides to NM Finalists (Alabama, Arizona, AZ State etc) but many many whose family can afford it rather attend T20 schools, even though those schools provide little/no merit aid. Most people only get one shot at an undergrad education, so the choose to spend the $$$$ rather that save money and risk regret later.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Good, solid, high-ranking schools are where if you have certain stats and $$$$, you can pretty much predict your chances. Elite schools, on the other hand, are crapshoot schools where you have the stats and $$$$$, but you are still not a shoo in.

Apparently at Lafayette you can’t do that. There were full pay 1580+ kids rejected last year.

Obviously yield protection. Those kids weren't going to go there even if accepted.

They give full tuition scholarships.

If a student is full ride at Lafayette or full pay at ivy, s/he might choose ivy. In fact, at top ivys, most students have turned down full ride options at lesser schools. For those flushed with cash, I can easily imagine their paying full tuition for top ivies.

Your complete lack of factual knowledge never seems to stop you from posting your utterly worthless opinions. And i immediately dismiss anybody that uses the term “top ivy” as an ignorant imbecile. Why do you even haunt this forum? Based on your grammar and diction it doesn’t appear that you even graduated from college.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Good, solid, high-ranking schools are where if you have certain stats and $$$$, you can pretty much predict your chances. Elite schools, on the other hand, are crapshoot schools where you have the stats and $$$$$, but you are still not a shoo in.

Apparently at Lafayette you can’t do that. There were full pay 1580+ kids rejected last year.

Obviously yield protection. Those kids weren't going to go there even if accepted.

They give full tuition scholarships.

If a student is full ride at Lafayette or full pay at ivy, s/he might choose ivy. In fact, at top ivys, most students have turned down full ride options at lesser schools. For those flushed with cash, I can easily imagine their paying full tuition for top ivies.

There were 15000 NMF in 2019. Each can enroll at a colleges that offer full rides to NM Finalists (Alabama, Arizona, AZ State etc) but many many whose family can afford it rather attend T20 schools, even though those schools provide little/no merit aid. Most people only get one shot at an undergrad education, so the choose to spend the $$$$ rather that save money and risk regret later.

Don't like over 90% of kids attend college within a few hours from home? I assume the 15,000 NMF are more mobile than their peers but most of the very smart students I've seen still stay in state or attend a neighboring state -- going across the country for school seems really rare.