Nice White Parents

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why is it wrong for parents to prioritize their own children?

My question is, why do these schools have such low test scores? It's established fact that cities often spend more (often much more) per student than suburbs do. Why does that extra money do nothing to raise test scores?!

It’s not wrong for you to put your kids first.

Money will never fix test scores when education is not prioritized at home. The schools can’t fix that.

So we should demonize the parents who do care enough to work with their kids at home?

Makes no sense.

oh my god the rich people idea that lower income families don't prioritize education or don't care to work with their kids if they could is SO maddening. Have the past 5 months of the pandemic taught you nothing about how stratified our country is by income? Every parent wants the best for their kid. For some that means they have to prioritize keeping their apartments and getting them fed at the cost of working 2-3 jobs, so no, they aren't there to "work with their kids". Or, they do, but it all looks different from your hours of paid enrichment because they don't have the resources. Assuming that low income families, and in DC that means primarily black and brown families, don't prioritize or care enough is elitist at best and racist likely at its core.

sorry no this is not true. There are some lower income families that care about their kids/education but there are many that frankly don't care. It's obvious from what they prioritize with their limited income and either the indifferent and/or violent way they treat their children. Spend any time in lower income communities and you would realize this.

I do and I have. Most families also live under systemic and multigenerational trauma. Without deep supports that can unfortunately repeat itself but I don't think it's fundamentally a lack of caring.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why is it wrong for parents to prioritize their own children?

My question is, why do these schools have such low test scores? It's established fact that cities often spend more (often much more) per student than suburbs do. Why does that extra money do nothing to raise test scores?!

It’s not wrong for you to put your kids first.

Money will never fix test scores when education is not prioritized at home. The schools can’t fix that.

So we should demonize the parents who do care enough to work with their kids at home?

Makes no sense.

oh my god the rich people idea that lower income families don't prioritize education or don't care to work with their kids if they could is SO maddening. Have the past 5 months of the pandemic taught you nothing about how stratified our country is by income? Every parent wants the best for their kid. For some that means they have to prioritize keeping their apartments and getting them fed at the cost of working 2-3 jobs, so no, they aren't there to "work with their kids". Or, they do, but it all looks different from your hours of paid enrichment because they don't have the resources. Assuming that low income families, and in DC that means primarily black and brown families, don't prioritize or care enough is elitist at best and racist likely at its core.

sorry no this is not true. There are some lower income families that care about their kids/education but there are many that frankly don't care. It's obvious from what they prioritize with their limited income and either the indifferent and/or violent way they treat their children. Spend any time in lower income communities and you would realize this.

I do and I have. Most families also live under systemic and multigenerational trauma. Without deep supports that can unfortunately repeat itself but I don't think it's fundamentally a lack of caring.

I see your point of view but it's also and I would argue more of a personal responsibility issue as well which often gets lost.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So nice white parents are supposed to voluntarily dumb down their own kids so that non whites can catch up and we all join up in the resulting muddle in the middle?

Sorry to have to break the news to you but the competition for the poors in America is not the children of the nice white parents in America.

If only life was that easy!

The rest of the world is rightfully practicing elite education and going all in on promoting their best and the brightest - not their worst and their dumbest.

Why do you think the USA is at the bottom of global educational comparisons?

Wrong minded altruism.

Nice white parents need to stop being so nice and start looking out for their own.

If you can't raise your own kids on your own then forget about having kids and forget about expecting others to raise them properly for you - just to make you feel equal.

That's not the issue in the podcast. The issue is that these parents have a lot of other choices for their children's education, but they chose to go to this underperforming, majority minority school, and instead of being full, equal participants in the school, they essentially created a separate track (including separate fundraising) for their own children, and disrespected the existing culture and power structure of the school.

so like AAP leading to TJ?

not AAP leading to TJ but definitely AAP. AAP has become the white parents' escape from general education in FCPS. Go read the AAP and VA public school forums. Many of the parents hint at wanting AAP so that their kids can be surrounded by "like-minded peers" in elementary and middle schools. Sorry but your kid is not so gifted that they cannot relate to general ed students---that's only a minority of students in AAP. It's not even a truly gifted program anymore.

[Anonymous]

I'd rather have a podcast about school districts that are making progress and have instituted policies or changes that have led to overall improvement. Because we hear all about the problems but nothing about real solutions with concrete examples. It makes me feel like there aren't any.

[Anonymous]

Haven't read all this yet but my first question is, does the creator of this podcast have kids? Does she have skin in the game? If she does, where do her kids go to school and does she have to deal with this in her neighborhood (or does she conveniently live in a great middle class diverse school district without massive inequality)? I have a friend who is constantly railing and even organizing politically about this stuff who has no children nor works in/with schools. I look forward to listening to the podcast but I think it's super hard to solve for all society's ills using your own children, and this point has been made by many a filmmaker, journalist, and person on DCUM for a long time. Case in point, that liberal activist Cap Hill family that ended up with their kid at SWS.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Haven't read all this yet but my first question is, does the creator of this podcast have kids? Does she have skin in the game? If she does, where do her kids go to school and does she have to deal with this in her neighborhood (or does she conveniently live in a great middle class diverse school district without massive inequality)? I have a friend who is constantly railing and even organizing politically about this stuff who has no children nor works in/with schools. I look forward to listening to the podcast but I think it's super hard to solve for all society's ills using your own children, and this point has been made by many a filmmaker, journalist, and person on DCUM for a long time. Case in point, that liberal activist Cap Hill family that ended up with their kid at SWS.

You should listen to the podcast. She addresses all of this in the first few minutes of the first episode.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So nice white parents are supposed to voluntarily dumb down their own kids so that non whites can catch up and we all join up in the resulting muddle in the middle?

Sorry to have to break the news to you but the competition for the poors in America is not the children of the nice white parents in America.

If only life was that easy!

The rest of the world is rightfully practicing elite education and going all in on promoting their best and the brightest - not their worst and their dumbest.

Why do you think the USA is at the bottom of global educational comparisons?

Wrong minded altruism.

Nice white parents need to stop being so nice and start looking out for their own.

If you can't raise your own kids on your own then forget about having kids and forget about expecting others to raise them properly for you - just to make you feel equal.

Well the point is that nice white parents are politely continuing to act in the best interest (real or perceived) of their own children.

And another point

It works - white kids are still doing well and getting ahead.

Asian parents method for getting their kids into TJ works. But it's a lot of time and effort and choices being made that lots don't want to do.

[Anonymous]

Man, that PTA president was kind of a witch wasn’t she? She keeps gossiping about the white parents behind their backs and throwing “silent tantrums.”
So, some parents want to create a program at your school that you aren’t excited about. Who cares? Can’t you just be nice and happy for them? Organize your potluck with dishes from different cultures and invite them? Why does she have to be such an ass?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Man, that PTA president was kind of a witch wasn’t she? She keeps gossiping about the white parents behind their backs and throwing “silent tantrums.”
So, some parents want to create a program at your school that you aren’t excited about. Who cares? Can’t you just be nice and happy for them? Organize your potluck with dishes from different cultures and invite them? Why does she have to be such an ass?

I *think* her issue was that Rob was raising money separately (and unbeknownst) from the PTA, and it wasn't clear whether the PTA would be given any access to that $$. Only exacerbated by Rob mansplaining corporate fundraising to the PTA.

On a lighter note, my favorite character was Barb from the Gala going on and on about how great Paris was....eeek.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I'd rather have a podcast about school districts that are making progress and have instituted policies or changes that have led to overall improvement. Because we hear all about the problems but nothing about real solutions with concrete examples. It makes me feel like there aren't any.

I totally agree. I haven't listened yet, and it sounds interesting/entertaining but also, not to contain actually any ground breaking new information.

What do we do about it? What are the solutions? Are they scalable? Someone report back if she gets to that....

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'd rather have a podcast about school districts that are making progress and have instituted policies or changes that have led to overall improvement. Because we hear all about the problems but nothing about real solutions with concrete examples. It makes me feel like there aren't any.

I totally agree. I haven't listened yet, and it sounds interesting/entertaining but also, not to contain actually any ground breaking new information.

What do we do about it? What are the solutions? Are they scalable? Someone report back if she gets to that....

The solution is in the living room at home. Which is why there exist no government policies that will ever work, other than parental education (which itself requires parental involvement) and early intervention (which is proven to work amazingly well for as long as it continues). I know it’s impossible to believe on DCUM, but not everyone cares if their child goes to college or even graduates high school, not everyone wants to read 20 minutes per day to their children or nag them to do their homework. The best place to invest policy money is in poorer preschools. If you paid just $1000 to teach every single poor URM 4 year-old to read fluently, you would see the single greatest leap in education in a single generation.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'd rather have a podcast about school districts that are making progress and have instituted policies or changes that have led to overall improvement. Because we hear all about the problems but nothing about real solutions with concrete examples. It makes me feel like there aren't any.

I totally agree. I haven't listened yet, and it sounds interesting/entertaining but also, not to contain actually any ground breaking new information.

What do we do about it? What are the solutions? Are they scalable? Someone report back if she gets to that....

The solution is in the living room at home. Which is why there exist no government policies that will ever work, other than parental education (which itself requires parental involvement) and early intervention (which is proven to work amazingly well for as long as it continues). I know it’s impossible to believe on DCUM, but not everyone cares if their child goes to college or even graduates high school, not everyone wants to read 20 minutes per day to their children or nag them to do their homework. The best place to invest policy money is in poorer preschools. If you paid just $1000 to teach every single poor URM 4 year-old to read fluently, you would see the single greatest leap in education in a single generation.

there is a lot schools could do, none of which would be popular. Remove trouble makers from the classroom- be quicker to track kids into alternative schools. Don't mainstream ESOL students who can't keep up. End social promotion- if you can't demonstrate that you have an adequate grasp of the material- summer school or repeat a grade. I think all of that would drastically improve the classroom environment for the average student

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
Look into Tools of Mind preschools: they put URM children into a preschools featuring TOM curriculum and control groups (standard preschool) and the TOM students were so successful in elementary school the director ended the program for negatively impacting children in control groups. It’s based on Vygotzkian child development theory, which teaches children self-regulation and discipline.

Thanks - will do!

And, back on topic, I hope the podcast creator offers similar solutions / resources instead of just telling the story of the problems.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'd rather have a podcast about school districts that are making progress and have instituted policies or changes that have led to overall improvement. Because we hear all about the problems but nothing about real solutions with concrete examples. It makes me feel like there aren't any.

I totally agree. I haven't listened yet, and it sounds interesting/entertaining but also, not to contain actually any ground breaking new information.

What do we do about it? What are the solutions? Are they scalable? Someone report back if she gets to that....

The solution is in the living room at home. Which is why there exist no government policies that will ever work, other than parental education (which itself requires parental involvement) and early intervention (which is proven to work amazingly well for as long as it continues). I know it’s impossible to believe on DCUM, but not everyone cares if their child goes to college or even graduates high school, not everyone wants to read 20 minutes per day to their children or nag them to do their homework. The best place to invest policy money is in poorer preschools. If you paid just $1000 to teach every single poor URM 4 year-old to read fluently, you would see the single greatest leap in education in a single generation.

There are free preschools available already.

I had a friend in Tennessee, the state sent free books to them every month from ages 0-5.

Most poor people know how to read at an elementary level from free public schools. I wish the solution could be as simple as reading, that actually does work in many poorer countries. But not here. This "cycle of poverty" thing in this country is uniquely American. Of course there are cycles of poverty in other countries, but it's very different than what we see here. It's not just a matter of offering a better education. A lot of people simply don't want it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'd rather have a podcast about school districts that are making progress and have instituted policies or changes that have led to overall improvement. Because we hear all about the problems but nothing about real solutions with concrete examples. It makes me feel like there aren't any.

I totally agree. I haven't listened yet, and it sounds interesting/entertaining but also, not to contain actually any ground breaking new information.

What do we do about it? What are the solutions? Are they scalable? Someone report back if she gets to that....

The solution is in the living room at home. Which is why there exist no government policies that will ever work, other than parental education (which itself requires parental involvement) and early intervention (which is proven to work amazingly well for as long as it continues). I know it’s impossible to believe on DCUM, but not everyone cares if their child goes to college or even graduates high school, not everyone wants to read 20 minutes per day to their children or nag them to do their homework. The best place to invest policy money is in poorer preschools. If you paid just $1000 to teach every single poor URM 4 year-old to read fluently, you would see the single greatest leap in education in a single generation.

There are free preschools available already.

I had a friend in Tennessee, the state sent free books to them every month from ages 0-5.

Most poor people know how to read at an elementary level from free public schools. I wish the solution could be as simple as reading, that actually does work in many poorer countries. But not here. This "cycle of poverty" thing in this country is uniquely American. Of course there are cycles of poverty in other countries, but it's very different than what we see here. It's not just a matter of offering a better education. A lot of people simply don't want it.

Dolly Parton is wonderful and the program has spread all over the country and all over the world.

The reaction of posters in DC was a model in rich white guilt though. They refused to sign their children up because it's a program for poor kids and they didn't want to take advantage.