Is busing really an option?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Looks like being sarcastic did not help. Then let me put it straight: it looks like having a good mix of different races in the county, is not enough, and you demand a better mix of races in various "districts"? Where does that end? sub-districts? sub-sub-districts? a few streets? one street? a few houses? one house?

To me, as long as people are not forced to live somewhere based on race, then there is no "segregation" issue. e.g. if people can't afford a house somewhere, that is not segregation - if too many people can't afford a house that becomes a social issue but it is not segregation.

'I don't know what you mean by "glory",' Alice said.

Humpty Dumpty smiled contemptuously. 'Of course you don't — till I tell you. I meant "there's a nice knock-down argument for you!"'

'But "glory" doesn't mean "a nice knock-down argument",' Alice objected.

'When I use a word,' Humpty Dumpty said, in rather a scornful tone, 'it means just what I choose it to mean — neither more nor less.'

'The question is,' said Alice, 'whether you can make words mean so many different things.'

'The question is,' said Humpty Dumpty, 'which is to be master — that's all.'

Well, then please go ahead and define your "segregation" issue. Please be sure to tell people what size of a "district/area/neighborhood" you choose to measure the race composition, and why such a size is chosen over others.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Looks like being sarcastic did not help. Then let me put it straight: it looks like having a good mix of different races in the county, is not enough, and you demand a better mix of races in various "districts"? Where does that end? sub-districts? sub-sub-districts? a few streets? one street? a few houses? one house?

To me, as long as people are not forced to live somewhere based on race, then there is no "segregation" issue. e.g. if people can't afford a house somewhere, that is not segregation - if too many people can't afford a house that becomes a social issue but it is not segregation.

'I don't know what you mean by "glory",' Alice said.

Humpty Dumpty smiled contemptuously. 'Of course you don't — till I tell you. I meant "there's a nice knock-down argument for you!"'

'But "glory" doesn't mean "a nice knock-down argument",' Alice objected.

'When I use a word,' Humpty Dumpty said, in rather a scornful tone, 'it means just what I choose it to mean — neither more nor less.'

'The question is,' said Alice, 'whether you can make words mean so many different things.'

'The question is,' said Humpty Dumpty, 'which is to be master — that's all.'

Well, then please go ahead and define your "segregation" issue. Please be sure to tell people what size of a "district/area/neighborhood" you choose to measure the race composition, and why such a size is chosen over others.

https://www.nationalgeographic.com/magazine/2018/10/diversity-race-ethnicity-united-states-america-interactive-map/

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Looks like being sarcastic did not help. Then let me put it straight: it looks like having a good mix of different races in the county, is not enough, and you demand a better mix of races in various "districts"? Where does that end? sub-districts? sub-sub-districts? a few streets? one street? a few houses? one house?

To me, as long as people are not forced to live somewhere based on race, then there is no "segregation" issue. e.g. if people can't afford a house somewhere, that is not segregation - if too many people can't afford a house that becomes a social issue but it is not segregation.

'I don't know what you mean by "glory",' Alice said.

Humpty Dumpty smiled contemptuously. 'Of course you don't — till I tell you. I meant "there's a nice knock-down argument for you!"'

'But "glory" doesn't mean "a nice knock-down argument",' Alice objected.

'When I use a word,' Humpty Dumpty said, in rather a scornful tone, 'it means just what I choose it to mean — neither more nor less.'

'The question is,' said Alice, 'whether you can make words mean so many different things.'

'The question is,' said Humpty Dumpty, 'which is to be master — that's all.'

Well, then please go ahead and define your "segregation" issue. Please be sure to tell people what size of a "district/area/neighborhood" you choose to measure the race composition, and why such a size is chosen over others.

https://www.nationalgeographic.com/magazine/2018/10/diversity-race-ethnicity-united-states-america-interactive-map/

1. It needs subscription to read. I could just barely see the map for a glance before it asks me to sign up.

2. That does not answer the question.

When drawing the map, one can choose one's own binning size. If I choose, e.g. a county as the smallest bin, then MoCo does not have a race composition that stands out from other "counties".
If I choose a smaller bin, maybe certain "bins" within our county would stand out as having more white or more black. But the question is, how "fine" or how "coarse" should one choose the bin, and WHY?

In other words, how "UNIFORM" the race composition does one need before one stops picking on this "segregation" issue?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Looks like being sarcastic did not help. Then let me put it straight: it looks like having a good mix of different races in the county, is not enough, and you demand a better mix of races in various "districts"? Where does that end? sub-districts? sub-sub-districts? a few streets? one street? a few houses? one house?

To me, as long as people are not forced to live somewhere based on race, then there is no "segregation" issue. e.g. if people can't afford a house somewhere, that is not segregation - if too many people can't afford a house that becomes a social issue but it is not segregation.

'I don't know what you mean by "glory",' Alice said.

Humpty Dumpty smiled contemptuously. 'Of course you don't — till I tell you. I meant "there's a nice knock-down argument for you!"'

'But "glory" doesn't mean "a nice knock-down argument",' Alice objected.

'When I use a word,' Humpty Dumpty said, in rather a scornful tone, 'it means just what I choose it to mean — neither more nor less.'

'The question is,' said Alice, 'whether you can make words mean so many different things.'

'The question is,' said Humpty Dumpty, 'which is to be master — that's all.'

Well, then please go ahead and define your "segregation" issue. Please be sure to tell people what size of a "district/area/neighborhood" you choose to measure the race composition, and why such a size is chosen over others.

https://www.nationalgeographic.com/magazine/2018/10/diversity-race-ethnicity-united-states-america-interactive-map/

1. It needs subscription to read. I could just barely see the map for a glance before it asks me to sign up.

2. That does not answer the question.

When drawing the map, one can choose one's own binning size. If I choose, e.g. a county as the smallest bin, then MoCo does not have a race composition that stands out from other "counties".
If I choose a smaller bin, maybe certain "bins" within our county would stand out as having more white or more black. But the question is, how "fine" or how "coarse" should one choose the bin, and WHY?

In other words, how "UNIFORM" the race composition does one need before one stops picking on this "segregation" issue?

If you read MCPS regulation FAA-RA, in the description of the demographic characteristics factor, it says they want to prevent "significant disparity in the demographic characteristics between
schools in the affected geographic areas that cannot be justified by any other factor." Seems pretty reasonable.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
1. It needs subscription to read. I could just barely see the map for a glance before it asks me to sign up.

2. That does not answer the question.

When drawing the map, one can choose one's own binning size. If I choose, e.g. a county as the smallest bin, then MoCo does not have a race composition that stands out from other "counties".
If I choose a smaller bin, maybe certain "bins" within our county would stand out as having more white or more black. But the question is, how "fine" or how "coarse" should one choose the bin, and WHY?

In other words, how "UNIFORM" the race composition does one need before one stops picking on this "segregation" issue?

If you read MCPS regulation FAA-RA, in the description of the demographic characteristics factor, it says they want to prevent "significant disparity in the demographic characteristics between
schools in the affected geographic areas that cannot be justified by any other factor." Seems pretty reasonable.

That does sound reasonable. Most of the cases, the "disparity ... between schools" is well justified by one simple factor: population composition in the related geographic areas. Is there any factor more straight-forward (when considering the demographics of schools) than that? Nothing needs to be done from the school side.

If population composition changes significantly, and MCPS still want to maintain the old demographic characteristics between schools, I would call that "not justified by any other factor."

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
1. It needs subscription to read. I could just barely see the map for a glance before it asks me to sign up.

2. That does not answer the question.

When drawing the map, one can choose one's own binning size. If I choose, e.g. a county as the smallest bin, then MoCo does not have a race composition that stands out from other "counties".
If I choose a smaller bin, maybe certain "bins" within our county would stand out as having more white or more black. But the question is, how "fine" or how "coarse" should one choose the bin, and WHY?

In other words, how "UNIFORM" the race composition does one need before one stops picking on this "segregation" issue?

If you read MCPS regulation FAA-RA, in the description of the demographic characteristics factor, it says they want to prevent "significant disparity in the demographic characteristics between
schools in the affected geographic areas that cannot be justified by any other factor." Seems pretty reasonable.

That does sound reasonable. Most of the cases, the "disparity ... between schools" is well justified by one simple factor: population composition in the related geographic areas. Is there any factor more straight-forward (when considering the demographics of schools) than that? Nothing needs to be done from the school side.

If population composition changes significantly, and MCPS still want to maintain the old demographic characteristics between schools, I would call that "not justified by any other factor."

And this supports what many people have been saying--despite DCUM claims to the contrary--that there is no MCPS plan to bus kids across the county to schools far from their homes.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote: No, bussing is not an option for most of the county. The same bus makes three rounds a morning (HS, MS, then ES) and in the afternoon. Going all over the 500 sq mile county for a diversity performance experiment is asinine.

Which is why nobody, but NOBODY, is proposing it. Notwithstanding this fact, there are a lot of people spending a lot of energy fighting something that NOBODY IS PROPOSING.

Yes yes, pls shut up everybody and ignore the 2019 board mtg topics and $$million study on boundary diversity solutions. La la la.

I’d rather fight it now in the 3rd inning (and yes Board and central office already moved it to the third inning) than believe the political leftist board and wait until inning 9 when they’re shoving it down everybody’s throat like they have all the other terrible initiatives, decisions and changes the last 10 years.

Agree - we must fight to end the longstanding de facto segregation that exists in this county.

Allow me to respectfully explain why this is nonsensical. Let’s focus on the mid Atlantic, out popualtion has been 80% white 15% black and 5% other races. So traditionally most areas will be super majority white not because of de facto segregation but because most are white. State institutionalized segregation, reeling, all the rest ended long ago. However 15% black remains so unless you ensure every block cluster has 15% blacks, you could make this claim but it’s just a word because people are free to live where they want. Now there is a big caveat there, they are free to live where they want and can afford. Also demographics are changing. Large influxes of migrants predominantly Hispanic but also Asian have changed that. While our population remains 15% black, we are maybe 30% Hispanic and Asian. So 55% white is a smaller majority so we should see less pockets of high density white populations and we are but...

Migrants typically have less accumulated wealth so they will congregate initially in areas of more affordable housing. As they accumulate wealth they move beyond. Same happened with the immigration waves in the 1890s through 1920s. Except now there is no legal segregation keeping these people out of specific areas. My neighborhood is predominately white but less so. 25 years ago about 90% now 70% or so. Seems normal as demographics slowly change we see a slow change in neighborhoods with a delay to allow for wealth accumulation. There is nothing insidious here, is there??

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote: No, bussing is not an option for most of the county. The same bus makes three rounds a morning (HS, MS, then ES) and in the afternoon. Going all over the 500 sq mile county for a diversity performance experiment is asinine.

Which is why nobody, but NOBODY, is proposing it. Notwithstanding this fact, there are a lot of people spending a lot of energy fighting something that NOBODY IS PROPOSING.

Yes yes, pls shut up everybody and ignore the 2019 board mtg topics and $$million study on boundary diversity solutions. La la la.

I’d rather fight it now in the 3rd inning (and yes Board and central office already moved it to the third inning) than believe the political leftist board and wait until inning 9 when they’re shoving it down everybody’s throat like they have all the other terrible initiatives, decisions and changes the last 10 years.

Agree - we must fight to end the longstanding de facto segregation that exists in this county.

Allow me to respectfully explain why this is nonsensical. Let’s focus on the mid Atlantic, out popualtion has been 80% white 15% black and 5% other races. So traditionally most areas will be super majority white not because of de facto segregation but because most are white. State institutionalized segregation, reeling, all the rest ended long ago. However 15% black remains so unless you ensure every block cluster has 15% blacks, you could make this claim but it’s just a word because people are free to live where they want. Now there is a big caveat there, they are free to live where they want and can afford. Also demographics are changing. Large influxes of migrants predominantly Hispanic but also Asian have changed that. While our population remains 15% black, we are maybe 30% Hispanic and Asian. So 55% white is a smaller majority so we should see less pockets of high density white populations and we are but...

Migrants typically have less accumulated wealth so they will congregate initially in areas of more affordable housing. As they accumulate wealth they move beyond. Same happened with the immigration waves in the 1890s through 1920s. Except now there is no legal segregation keeping these people out of specific areas. My neighborhood is predominately white but less so. 25 years ago about 90% now 70% or so. Seems normal as demographics slowly change we see a slow change in neighborhoods with a delay to allow for wealth accumulation. There is nothing insidious here, is there??

The white population of MCPS students is something like 35%. The PP had a point whereas yours isn't relevant.

[Anonymous]

If bussing is what is needed to end decades of defacto segregation in this county, I'm all for it.

[Anonymous]

Yeah I agree. The crazies are really out in force here, claiming the government is going to force them to change where they live to achieve racial balance?!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote: No, bussing is not an option for most of the county. The same bus makes three rounds a morning (HS, MS, then ES) and in the afternoon. Going all over the 500 sq mile county for a diversity performance experiment is asinine.

Which is why nobody, but NOBODY, is proposing it. Notwithstanding this fact, there are a lot of people spending a lot of energy fighting something that NOBODY IS PROPOSING.

Yes yes, pls shut up everybody and ignore the 2019 board mtg topics and $$million study on boundary diversity solutions. La la la.

I’d rather fight it now in the 3rd inning (and yes Board and central office already moved it to the third inning) than believe the political leftist board and wait until inning 9 when they’re shoving it down everybody’s throat like they have all the other terrible initiatives, decisions and changes the last 10 years.

Agree - we must fight to end the longstanding de facto segregation that exists in this county.

Allow me to respectfully explain why this is nonsensical. Let’s focus on the mid Atlantic, out popualtion has been 80% white 15% black and 5% other races. So traditionally most areas will be super majority white not because of de facto segregation but because most are white. State institutionalized segregation, reeling, all the rest ended long ago. However 15% black remains so unless you ensure every block cluster has 15% blacks, you could make this claim but it’s just a word because people are free to live where they want. Now there is a big caveat there, they are free to live where they want and can afford. Also demographics are changing. Large influxes of migrants predominantly Hispanic but also Asian have changed that. While our population remains 15% black, we are maybe 30% Hispanic and Asian. So 55% white is a smaller majority so we should see less pockets of high density white populations and we are but...

Migrants typically have less accumulated wealth so they will congregate initially in areas of more affordable housing. As they accumulate wealth they move beyond. Same happened with the immigration waves in the 1890s through 1920s. Except now there is no legal segregation keeping these people out of specific areas. My neighborhood is predominately white but less so. 25 years ago about 90% now 70% or so. Seems normal as demographics slowly change we see a slow change in neighborhoods with a delay to allow for wealth accumulation. There is nothing insidious here, is there??

The white population of MCPS students is something like 35%. The PP had a point whereas yours isn't relevant.

Your point is irrelevant. The children live as a consequence of where the parents live. That’s what matters, the ratio of demographics of where the parents live, not the ratio in school.

[Anonymous]

MCPS student population trend:

2016-2017: White, 29.3%; Hispanic, 30.1%; Bl, 21.3%; Asian, 14.3%.
2018-2018: W, 28.3%: His, 32.3%; Bl, 21.4%; As, 14.4%.

There are less white students than Hispanic students in MCPS now. How long will it take for Hispanic students to become majority?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
Busing cannot work in high traffic areas, period. I don’t want kids with hour+ commutes clogging roads, it’s not to anyone’s benefit.

However, I am ALL in favor of more rent-controlled housing in expensive areas. I live in Bethesda and it’s turning into Wealth central. Decades ago, it was an unassuming suburb.
It is SO incredibly important to have a balanced population in every community.

I live in Bethesda too and agree 100%

[Anonymous]

MCPS has been busing students to schools across the county for decades. Like the Kensington kids near Einstein being bussed to a luxurious W. Seriously, if you're really against busing then put an end to this.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:MCPS has been busing students to schools across the county for decades. Like the Kensington kids near Einstein being bussed to a luxurious W. Seriously, if you're really against busing then put an end to this.

Town of Kensington is roughly 4 miles from WJ. Hardly "across the county." And how exactly is WJ luxurious?