The REAL issue with the proposals to shift boundaries & how MCPS can fix it

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:According to US Census, Silver Spring has only 11% poverty. Median income is somewhere around $72,000. Why are many all the kids in the public schools? Why such a high concentration of poverty in the public schools?

Oh, this one is easy to answer. The "poverty threshold" used by the US Census is different from that used to define eligibility for free and reduced meals.

So, for a family of 4 with two children under 18, you need to make less than about $22K per year as a household to qualify as "in poverty" per the US Census.

The same family would qualify for free and reduced meals with a household income of up to about $46K.

So, only 11% of families in Silver Spring have a household income low enough to qualify as "in povery" per the census, but many more have a household income greater than the census threshold, but less than the FARMS threshold.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

According to US Census, Silver Spring has only 11% poverty. Median income is somewhere around $72,000. Why are many all the kids in the public schools? Why such a high concentration of poverty in the public schools?

This is weird. Even Blair is 50% FARMS. All the other DCC schools seem to be at least half FARMS too. It could be that the census is counting households and lots of retirees are being counted? Still 11% seems very low considering the level of poverty within the schools.

Kemp Mill area? It is very heavily o
Are you shocked that people with means won't send their kids to bad schools? Take Kemp Mill ES, GS-4. Median income per the census of the vast majority of the property zoned for that school is $124k. Farms rate at the school is 70%. When the schools suck, anyone who can leave will leave, by whatever means possible. Redrawing boundaries will change this exactly zero percent.

Did you deliberately choose Kemp Mill to try to get an extreme example? Or do you really not know anything about the kemp mill area? There is a very high concentration of orthodox Jewish families who send their kids to religious schools. So the local school is not representative of the neighborhood.
Why not look st Woodside, Seven Oaks, Woodmoor, Indian Spring? The public schools those neighborhoods feed to are much lower than 70% FARMS.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Really, there has to be a better solution than all the middle class families fleeing the public schools.

Only in DCUM, not in the real world

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

According to US Census, Silver Spring has only 11% poverty. Median income is somewhere around $72,000. Why are many all the kids in the public schools? Why such a high concentration of poverty in the public schools?

This is weird. Even Blair is 50% FARMS. All the other DCC schools seem to be at least half FARMS too. It could be that the census is counting households and lots of retirees are being counted? Still 11% seems very low considering the level of poverty within the schools.

You pulled this number out of your a$$?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We need multiple smaller public school districts.

To focus on specific needs of specific communities. Some parents invest a ton of time and resources building up their communities and immediate schools via volunteering, coaching, PTA, time, managing clubs, etc. And work full time and /or parent several kids!

No way s/he can do that for 220 disparate schools. Rosy sing teachers and principals in a heavily centralized huge county public school system (top 10 largest in country), can’t do that effectively either.

Time for UC, DCC and SW district schools. Sure socialize half the property tax revenues but then start emplowering the damn schools and teachers again. C2.0 got us further and further from that.
Stop pitting ESOL demands versus g&T programs. That’s asinine! And guess what? Esol is at <40% proficiency still! And the great students are bored or leaving!
Stop making 5,6,7,8 year olds sit around teaching themselves math and reading or “type writing” in efforts to win PaRCcC common core money. Start teaching! All subjects! And differentiate! If a kid is reading 3 grade levels behind, so not pass him or her! Repeat the grade.

Who wouldn’t vote for this? Makes a ton of sense for all segments.

Actually let's pair the poorest areas with Potomac and call that new district. The boundary could be similar to the ones currently used by W schools to keep out poors.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

According to US Census, Silver Spring has only 11% poverty. Median income is somewhere around $72,000. Why are many all the kids in the public schools? Why such a high concentration of poverty in the public schools?

This is weird. Even Blair is 50% FARMS. All the other DCC schools seem to be at least half FARMS too. It could be that the census is counting households and lots of retirees are being counted? Still 11% seems very low considering the level of poverty within the schools.

You pulled this number out of your a$$?

Yes they did it's 37%. Not sure if that's current farms or ever farms which are also distinct.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

According to US Census, Silver Spring has only 11% poverty. Median income is somewhere around $72,000. Why are many all the kids in the public schools? Why such a high concentration of poverty in the public schools?

This is weird. Even Blair is 50% FARMS. All the other DCC schools seem to be at least half FARMS too. It could be that the census is counting households and lots of retirees are being counted? Still 11% seems very low considering the level of poverty within the schools.

Illegals aren’t in the census. Neither are their four children per household.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

According to US Census, Silver Spring has only 11% poverty. Median income is somewhere around $72,000. Why are many all the kids in the public schools? Why such a high concentration of poverty in the public schools?

This is weird. Even Blair is 50% FARMS. All the other DCC schools seem to be at least half FARMS too. It could be that the census is counting households and lots of retirees are being counted? Still 11% seems very low considering the level of poverty within the schools.

Kemp Mill area? It is very heavily o
Are you shocked that people with means won't send their kids to bad schools? Take Kemp Mill ES, GS-4. Median income per the census of the vast majority of the property zoned for that school is $124k. Farms rate at the school is 70%. When the schools suck, anyone who can leave will leave, by whatever means possible. Redrawing boundaries will change this exactly zero percent.

Did you deliberately choose Kemp Mill to try to get an extreme example? Or do you really not know anything about the kemp mill area? There is a very high concentration of orthodox Jewish families who send their kids to religious schools. So the local school is not representative of the neighborhood.
Why not look st Woodside, Seven Oaks, Woodmoor, Indian Spring? The public schools those neighborhoods feed to are much lower than 70% FARMS.

Ok, let’s look at Woodside. Built at the same time as Kensington and Garrett Park. About to get a stop on the Purple Line. See at least one house listed at $1.2M. (Actually with the Purple Line, Woodside’s going to be a boom town.) But anyways, are those kids in the public high schools? I think there’s a lot of Catholic school kids there. What can MCPS do to get this neighborhood to go to their home school?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We need multiple smaller public school districts.

To focus on specific needs of specific communities. Some parents invest a ton of time and resources building up their communities and immediate schools via volunteering, coaching, PTA, time, managing clubs, etc. And work full time and /or parent several kids!

No way s/he can do that for 220 disparate schools. Rosy sing teachers and principals in a heavily centralized huge county public school system (top 10 largest in country), can’t do that effectively either.

Time for UC, DCC and SW district schools. Sure socialize half the property tax revenues but then start emplowering the damn schools and teachers again. C2.0 got us further and further from that.
Stop pitting ESOL demands versus g&T programs. That’s asinine! And guess what? Esol is at <40% proficiency still! And the great students are bored or leaving!
Stop making 5,6,7,8 year olds sit around teaching themselves math and reading or “type writing” in efforts to win PaRCcC common core money. Start teaching! All subjects! And differentiate! If a kid is reading 3 grade levels behind, so not pass him or her! Repeat the grade.

Who wouldn’t vote for this? Makes a ton of sense for all segments.

Actually let's pair the poorest areas with Potomac and call that new district. The boundary could be similar to the ones currently used by W schools to keep out poors.

It’s not about that. It’s about decentralizing and empowering the neighborhood schools. If some neighborhoods are so esol hispanic they could elect to be a spa ish immersion school like they do in Fairfax.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We need multiple smaller public school districts.

To focus on specific needs of specific communities. Some parents invest a ton of time and resources building up their communities and immediate schools via volunteering, coaching, PTA, time, managing clubs, etc. And work full time and /or parent several kids!

No way s/he can do that for 220 disparate schools. Rosy sing teachers and principals in a heavily centralized huge county public school system (top 10 largest in country), can’t do that effectively either.

Time for UC, DCC and SW district schools. Sure socialize half the property tax revenues but then start emplowering the damn schools and teachers again. C2.0 got us further and further from that.
Stop pitting ESOL demands versus g&T programs. That’s asinine! And guess what? Esol is at <40% proficiency still! And the great students are bored or leaving!
Stop making 5,6,7,8 year olds sit around teaching themselves math and reading or “type writing” in efforts to win PaRCcC common core money. Start teaching! All subjects! And differentiate! If a kid is reading 3 grade levels behind, so not pass him or her! Repeat the grade.

Who wouldn’t vote for this? Makes a ton of sense for all segments.

Actually let's pair the poorest areas with Potomac and call that new district. The boundary could be similar to the ones currently used by W schools to keep out poors.

It’s not about that. It’s about decentralizing and empowering the neighborhood schools. If some neighborhoods are so esol hispanic they could elect to be a spa ish immersion school like they do in Fairfax.

For a town supposedly full of policy wonks, I'm confused by how few folks here understand some key parts of the discussion. Upthread, it was the difference between FARMS eligibility and the census poverty threshold. Here, it is what it takes to create a Spanish immersion school. You can't just "vote" to be an immersion school, not least because there is a shortage of fully bilingual certified teachers.

[Anonymous]

Spanish immersion is one idea and a good one. I just don’t think expanding buildings and revisiting boundaries is enough. MCPS needs to be innovative here to compete with the private schools. They are losing - at least in the DCC.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Spanish immersion is one idea and a good one. I just don’t think expanding buildings and revisiting boundaries is enough. MCPS needs to be innovative here to compete with the private schools. They are losing - at least in the DCC.

Do you have any proof of that? My kids are at DCC schools and I can count on one hand the number of kids in the whole neighborhood who are in private schools. Of those who are, two have parents who work at that school, and one has special needs that MCPS couldn't accommodate. I guess there's one other family that homeschools, but I get the impression they would homeschool no matter where they live, as it is a pretty integral part of their self-conception.

I mean, genuinely, what gives you the impression that families in DCC neighborhoods are, en masse, using private schools?

[Anonymous]

The redistricting shredder, sticking it to rich people, attacking home values...

Not sure why redistricting is seen as a personal attack. Not sure why improving experience for all is seen as harming anyone’s experience. That is what baffles me.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Spanish immersion is one idea and a good one. I just don’t think expanding buildings and revisiting boundaries is enough. MCPS needs to be innovative here to compete with the private schools. They are losing - at least in the DCC.

Do you have any proof of that? My kids are at DCC schools and I can count on one hand the number of kids in the whole neighborhood who are in private schools. Of those who are, two have parents who work at that school, and one has special needs that MCPS couldn't accommodate. I guess there's one other family that homeschools, but I get the impression they would homeschool no matter where they live, as it is a pretty integral part of their self-conception.

I mean, genuinely, what gives you the impression that families in DCC neighborhoods are, en masse, using private schools?

I think the consultant should look at that. It’s relevant. And I personally know a lot of families in the Catholic schools from Silver Spring.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Spanish immersion is one idea and a good one. I just don’t think expanding buildings and revisiting boundaries is enough. MCPS needs to be innovative here to compete with the private schools. They are losing - at least in the DCC.

Do you have any proof of that? My kids are at DCC schools and I can count on one hand the number of kids in the whole neighborhood who are in private schools. Of those who are, two have parents who work at that school, and one has special needs that MCPS couldn't accommodate. I guess there's one other family that homeschools, but I get the impression they would homeschool no matter where they live, as it is a pretty integral part of their self-conception.

I mean, genuinely, what gives you the impression that families in DCC neighborhoods are, en masse, using private schools?

I think the consultant should look at that. It’s relevant. And I personally know a lot of families in the Catholic schools from Silver Spring.

As a geographic area, Silver Spring is huge. So it would make perfect sense that some parts of Silver Spring, namely those parts that are heavily Catholic, would be full of families using parish schools. It also makes sense that other parts would not, and that most of the kids would be in their local public schools.

However, the same can be said of any other part of the county or region. There are parts of Bethesda where people moved so they could be close to a specific parochial school. That doesn't mean the Bethesda schools are bad - it means people are choosing to live near specific schools because they are committed to a specific educational model.