Studies on "integrated schools"

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
lol - diversity at Cabin John?

MCPS cares about FARMs, ESOL, sped and minority status. In many cases, there is overlap (quite a bit) with the aforementioned categories.

Cabin John MS
ESOL - under 5%
FARMs - 7.2%
SPED - 14%

white - 42.8%
Asian - 31.6%
a sprinkling of Hispanics, blacks and mixed races

Not mentioned above is that Cabin John is 11.6% black. In fact, the demographics of Cabin John look something like America (73.3 white, 12.6 black, 5.2 Asian) except the Asian population is much larger at about equal expense of both white and black. So one could say that Cabin is even more similar to the demographics of the world.

Rather than say that MCPS only cares about American blacks and Hispanics, maybe it is better to say that MCPS wants all its school to have the mean demographics of Montgomery county. As for myself -- perhaps because I grew up in New England -- I have no loyalty to a county. I am a Rockvillian, a Marylander and an American but to me Montgomery county is just a boundary line.

the goal of MCPS is to eliminate the achievement gap. You do that by spreading out the higher and lower performers equally to all schools so everyone floats to the mean. The goal is to have average schools everywhere no more good or bad schools

Although this would have tremendous benefits, it will also cause he short-sighted bigots to riot.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I wonder why it is not racist when the blacks think mixing black and white students could improve black students’ acadamic performance? Doesnt that indicate black students cannot learn in schools by themselves?

Please learn some US history before you post.

(By the way, my kid has a good teacher for AP US History in an integrated MCPS high school with a diverse student body.)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Wow, I read it again. It's even worse than I remember. It's clear that they took a look at the the data and chose a break point (20%) that would kind of support their agenda. This wasn't a study, this was a data trolling expedition to find results they liked. Even that wasn't particularly successful. From the paper: "In math, the cumulative positive effect of attending a green zone school by the end of elementary school (nine points, p<0.12) was about the same as that of attending the lowest-poverty elementary schools (eight points, p<0.05). However, in reading, the cumulative effect of attending a green zone school (eight points, p <0.12 level) was larger than attending the lowest-poverty schools (five points, p<0.20 level). "

They're touting results with p-values of .2.

That's because the study isn't about chemistry, it's about people, and people are statistically messy. That is well-known.

[Anonymous]

Could someone explain the benefits of being around low performing kids from uneducated families for higher performing kids of college educated parents?
My child has been in a school over 50% farms/ESOL and honestly there were only two benefits: tons of free stuff for the whole school and yummy food at festivals.
But I am sure I am narrow minded so I want to expand my horizons.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Wow, I read it again. It's even worse than I remember. It's clear that they took a look at the the data and chose a break point (20%) that would kind of support their agenda. This wasn't a study, this was a data trolling expedition to find results they liked. Even that wasn't particularly successful. From the paper: "In math, the cumulative positive effect of attending a green zone school by the end of elementary school (nine points, p<0.12) was about the same as that of attending the lowest-poverty elementary schools (eight points, p<0.05). However, in reading, the cumulative effect of attending a green zone school (eight points, p <0.12 level) was larger than attending the lowest-poverty schools (five points, p<0.20 level). "

They're touting results with p-values of .2.

That's because the study isn't about chemistry, it's about people, and people are statistically messy. That is well-known.

It's precisely because people are "messy" that tests for statistical significance are used. There's no need for p-values in chemistry. And if .2 is the best that they could "find" during analysis of the data post collection, then it's almost certain that there's no real correlation.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

There's no such thing as a "definitive" study. This is the social science field; they're currently in the midst of a replication crisis because a large portion of the studies they've done can't be replicated. Do researchers study the effects of this integration on the higher performing students? Most studies I've read don't, and from what I've seen education researchers don't really care. The government tried something like this on a large scale (moving to opportunity) and there were no educational gains. In fact, almost all educational interventions show no lasting gains.

Honestly, if this integration was a magic bullet then the problem would have been solved by now. What are you going to suggest we do once this also fails?

Please actually read the study before you dismiss it: https://tcf.org/assets/downloads/tcf-Schwartz.pdf

The study is solid as are its conclusions. The segregationists on this board are hellbent on segregation and you can't reason with them.

So the magic bullet for fixing the achievement gap has been discovered in MoCo from a self-published paper by a progressive institution but nobody in the US seems to know or care about it. Strange. With all of the time/money and energy being spent on this issue all over the US (and world honestly; the same issues exist everywhere) it's amazing that we're just ignoring a simple solution.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Could someone explain the benefits of being around low performing kids from uneducated families for higher performing kids of college educated parents?
My child has been in a school over 50% farms/ESOL and honestly there were only two benefits: tons of free stuff for the whole school and yummy food at festivals.
But I am sure I am narrow minded so I want to expand my horizons.

One possible benefit is that it's easier for your child to be at the top of the class which might make help to get into college. It's also possible that the classes might be graded less harshly, which also might help.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Wow, I read it again. It's even worse than I remember. It's clear that they took a look at the the data and chose a break point (20%) that would kind of support their agenda. This wasn't a study, this was a data trolling expedition to find results they liked. Even that wasn't particularly successful. From the paper: "In math, the cumulative positive effect of attending a green zone school by the end of elementary school (nine points, p<0.12) was about the same as that of attending the lowest-poverty elementary schools (eight points, p<0.05). However, in reading, the cumulative effect of attending a green zone school (eight points, p <0.12 level) was larger than attending the lowest-poverty schools (five points, p<0.20 level). "

They're touting results with p-values of .2.

That's because the study isn't about chemistry, it's about people, and people are statistically messy. That is well-known.

It's precisely because people are "messy" that tests for statistical significance are used. There's no need for p-values in chemistry. And if .2 is the best that they could "find" during analysis of the data post collection, then it's almost certain that there's no real correlation.

This but don’t rain our their utopia

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Could someone explain the benefits of being around low performing kids from uneducated families for higher performing kids of college educated parents?
My child has been in a school over 50% farms/ESOL and honestly there were only two benefits: tons of free stuff for the whole school and yummy food at festivals.
But I am sure I am narrow minded so I want to expand my horizons.

One possible benefit is that it's easier for your child to be at the top of the class which might make help to get into college. It's also possible that the classes might be graded less harshly, which also might help.

Are you saying my kid might get graded like a brown kid and appear like an elite white kid without working for it?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Wow, I read it again. It's even worse than I remember. It's clear that they took a look at the the data and chose a break point (20%) that would kind of support their agenda. This wasn't a study, this was a data trolling expedition to find results they liked. Even that wasn't particularly successful. From the paper: "In math, the cumulative positive effect of attending a green zone school by the end of elementary school (nine points, p<0.12) was about the same as that of attending the lowest-poverty elementary schools (eight points, p<0.05). However, in reading, the cumulative effect of attending a green zone school (eight points, p <0.12 level) was larger than attending the lowest-poverty schools (five points, p<0.20 level). "

They're touting results with p-values of .2.

That's because the study isn't about chemistry, it's about people, and people are statistically messy. That is well-known.

It's precisely because people are "messy" that tests for statistical significance are used. There's no need for p-values in chemistry. And if .2 is the best that they could "find" during analysis of the data post collection, then it's almost certain that there's no real correlation.

Ooo! Ooo! I have to go tell my friends who are chemists! Won't they be interested!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Could someone explain the benefits of being around low performing kids from uneducated families for higher performing kids of college educated parents?
My child has been in a school over 50% farms/ESOL and honestly there were only two benefits: tons of free stuff for the whole school and yummy food at festivals.
But I am sure I am narrow minded so I want to expand my horizons.

Well, there's learning about the society your child is growing up into, of course.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I wonder why it is not racist when the blacks think mixing black and white students could improve black students’ acadamic performance? Doesnt that indicate black students cannot learn in schools by themselves?

Please learn some US history before you post.

(By the way, my kid has a good teacher for AP US History in an integrated MCPS high school with a diverse student body.)

As an immigrant, I see black adults are very successful. We had a black president ( a son of wealth African father and a white mom), many successful and rich men and women in entertainment industry, athletes making millions of dollars, many doctors and layers, rich business men and women. Politicall, our BOE has six POC currently, four of them are AA women. Over 30% of supervisor positions are held by monitories (data from 5-10 years ago. If you attend any meeting hosted by MCPS, it is very likely an AA woman is in charge.

Please ask these women if they were helped by the presence of their white classmates and colleagues when they attend schools and join the workforce.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I wonder why it is not racist when the blacks think mixing black and white students could improve black students’ acadamic performance? Doesnt that indicate black students cannot learn in schools by themselves?

Please learn some US history before you post.

(By the way, my kid has a good teacher for AP US History in an integrated MCPS high school with a diverse student body.)

As an immigrant, I see black adults are very successful. We had a black president ( a son of wealth African father and a white mom), many successful and rich men and women in entertainment industry, athletes making millions of dollars, many doctors and layers, rich business men and women. Politicall, our BOE has six POC currently, four of them are AA women. Over 30% of supervisor positions are held by monitories (data from 5-10 years ago. If you attend any meeting hosted by MCPS, it is very likely an AA woman is in charge.

Please ask these women if they were helped by the presence of their white classmates and colleagues when they attend schools and join the workforce.

An immigrant from where? And seriously, PLEASE learn some US history. Please.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I wonder why it is not racist when the blacks think mixing black and white students could improve black students’ acadamic performance? Doesnt that indicate black students cannot learn in schools by themselves?

Please learn some US history before you post.

(By the way, my kid has a good teacher for AP US History in an integrated MCPS high school with a diverse student body.)

As an immigrant, I see black adults are very successful. We had a black president ( a son of wealth African father and a white mom), many successful and rich men and women in entertainment industry, athletes making millions of dollars, many doctors and layers, rich business men and women. Politicall, our BOE has six POC currently, four of them are AA women. Over 30% of supervisor positions are held by monitories (data from 5-10 years ago. If you attend any meeting hosted by MCPS, it is very likely an AA woman is in charge.

Please ask these women if they were helped by the presence of their white classmates and colleagues when they attend schools and join the workforce.

An immigrant from where? And seriously, PLEASE learn some US history. Please.

An immigrant from outside of the US. Do you agree the in the progressive county like MC, AA already controls MCPS BOE and nearly half of high-ranking and decision making positions? MC is not the US in the 60’s. By the way, MCPS has only 2-4 HSs are majority white so there icsny enough white students to be bussed around to make the diversity quota.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Wow, I read it again. It's even worse than I remember. It's clear that they took a look at the the data and chose a break point (20%) that would kind of support their agenda. This wasn't a study, this was a data trolling expedition to find results they liked. Even that wasn't particularly successful. From the paper: "In math, the cumulative positive effect of attending a green zone school by the end of elementary school (nine points, p<0.12) was about the same as that of attending the lowest-poverty elementary schools (eight points, p<0.05). However, in reading, the cumulative effect of attending a green zone school (eight points, p <0.12 level) was larger than attending the lowest-poverty schools (five points, p<0.20 level). "

They're touting results with p-values of .2.

That's because the study isn't about chemistry, it's about people, and people are statistically messy. That is well-known.

It's precisely because people are "messy" that tests for statistical significance are used. There's no need for p-values in chemistry. And if .2 is the best that they could "find" during analysis of the data post collection, then it's almost certain that there's no real correlation.

Ooo! Ooo! I have to go tell my friends who are chemists! Won't they be interested!

PP here, and you're right. They do use statistics in Chemistry. Please as your friend if he would be willing to make major decisions based on a finding with a p-vale if .2.