The Rush to Judge Ilhan Omar

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The issue with Omar's comments is she questioned the loyalty of Americans who support Israel and claimed politicians only support Israel because of big money paid to them by a powerful Jewish lobby.
She cannot see that the support has everything to do with the fact that Israel is the only democracy in the Middle East that supports Western values and is surrounded by nations that would like to wipe Israel off the map.

Yep. Much like the deplorables comment by Hillary

[Anonymous]

Well, Mayor Emanuel thinks it was antisemitic. Not sure why his view wouldn’t be important.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Pretty soon we will have spent more time and energy condemning Ilhan Omar for her statements that aren't actually anti-semitic, than we did condemning Steve King for numerous statements that actually were white supremacist.

I say keep her on. That will embolden her to continue.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't always agree with Tom Friedman, but this is a very concise summation of where he thinks Omar is on the issue. It's worth the two minute read.

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/03/06/opinion/israel-ilhan-omar.html?action=click&module=Opinion&pgtype=Homepage

His main issue seems to be that she supports BDS, while also having criticisms of it. But, he like her, doesn't believe in passing laws against it. But, in this part he is completely wrong:

"And one issue she seems to have seized on is the alleged dual loyalty of Jews to America and Israel."

As I have said repeatedly, this is a mischaracterization of what she said at Busboys and Poets. She didn't question or suggest dual loyalty among Jews. To the contrary, she said she understood their support for the country and compared it to her children's support for Somalia. What she questioned was political pressure to support another country, the example being the anti-BDS law which enables punishing US citizens for exercising their 1st Amendment rights in order to protect the interests of Israel.

Exactly right - and it's easy to trace the political pressure. AIPAC pumps huge amounts of money into politics on both sides of the aisle, in some cycles even outspending the NRA per FEC filings. Ilhan Omar has made reference to that as well and was denounced as "raising old stereotypes about Jews and money" for it despite it being very much a true and accurate statement.

None of those things are anti-Semitic, yet Ilhan Omar is accused of being anti-Semitic for nothing more than making those kinds of factual statements.

Calling on Israel to stop shooting children and journalists at the border (as they have repeatedly done) is also not anti-Semitic. Criticizing the Netanyahu government on not following UN agreements on settlements and other things is not anti-Semitic. But sadly we *are* in fact living in times where even any legitimate, fact-based statement that is critical of Israel is denounced as anti-Semitic. There just isn't any disputing that given the facts.

It’s not just AIPAC contributions, it’s all of the secondary donors that they direct as well....the influence is immense and deeply corrosive.

[Anonymous]

This was in the Rolling Stone article. I'd like to honestly try to understand what she means here, as it doesn't make much sense to me:

As a teen in Minnesota, Ilhan Omar didn’t wear a hijab often. “I, regretfully, was one of the folks who would only wear it the days I didn’t have the time or energy to fix my hair,” says Omar, who arrived in the U.S. in 1995 as a refugee of the Somali civil war. Her attitude evolved after September 11th: “I knew we had a responsibility to help shape a narrative about our faith that is positive.”

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The issue with Omar's comments is she questioned the loyalty of Americans who support Israel and claimed politicians only support Israel because of big money paid to them by a powerful Jewish lobby.
She cannot see that the support has everything to do with the fact that Israel is the only democracy in the Middle East that supports Western values and is surrounded by nations that would like to wipe Israel off the map.

Wrong, everyone sees that Israel is a democracy and that it's surrounded by hostile nations. But that said, Israel being a democracy and being surrounded by hostile nations still doesn't justify Israel shooting children and journalists, violating UN agreements, building illegal settlements and other things, nor does it justify Americans and American politicians turning a blind eye to all of that, and apparently you don't see that. Israel doesn't *have* to continue those policies in order to survive and succeed. And to deny that AIPAC isn't a powerful lobby and that they throw a lot of money around is simply not credible as it's right in AIPAC's FEC and lobbying filings. There is nothing wrong let alone anti-semitic with stating those kinds of things, as Ilhan Omar has.

That Israel is a democracy is massively more dubious than assumed here. It makes a point of disenfranchising millions: Israeli Arabs, West Bank Palestinians, and millions of expelled refugees (including those in Gaza)...Some of us are old enough to remember South Africa pulling the same "only democracy" routine because it allowed elections for a select few.

After decades of always getting their way, Israel's supporters have become seriously sloppy. If you care about Israelis, Jews, and dare I say it, other people in general, you should re-examine the decades-old propaganda that obviously failed to produce a durable peace.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Pretty soon we will have spent more time and energy condemning Ilhan Omar for her statements that aren't actually anti-semitic, than we did condemning Steve King for numerous statements that actually were white supremacist.

And, yet, Steve King was removed from his committee assignments quite promptly while there seems to be no consideration of removing Omar despite the fact that many find her comments anti-semitic.

They find her comments anti-semitic but aren't able to articulate a case for why. I have yet to see that happen in this thread, for example. And if you can't explain why you believe a thing other than some vague unarticulatable feeling, or to base it only on what some other pundit or talking head else said, then how solid of an argument do you actually have?

You really aren't making a compelling argument here.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The issue with Omar's comments is she questioned the loyalty of Americans who support Israel and claimed politicians only support Israel because of big money paid to them by a powerful Jewish lobby.
She cannot see that the support has everything to do with the fact that Israel is the only democracy in the Middle East that supports Western values and is surrounded by nations that would like to wipe Israel off the map.

Wrong, everyone sees that Israel is a democracy and that it's surrounded by hostile nations. But that said, Israel being a democracy and being surrounded by hostile nations still doesn't justify Israel shooting children and journalists, violating UN agreements, building illegal settlements and other things, nor does it justify Americans and American politicians turning a blind eye to all of that, and apparently you don't see that. Israel doesn't *have* to continue those policies in order to survive and succeed. And to deny that AIPAC isn't a powerful lobby and that they throw a lot of money around is simply not credible as it's right in AIPAC's FEC and lobbying filings. There is nothing wrong let alone anti-semitic with stating those kinds of things, as Ilhan Omar has.

That Israel is a democracy is massively more dubious than assumed here. It makes a point of disenfranchising millions: Israeli Arabs, West Bank Palestinians, and millions of expelled refugees (including those in Gaza)...Some of us are old enough to remember South Africa pulling the same "only democracy" routine because it allowed elections for a select few.

After decades of always getting their way, Israel's supporters have become seriously sloppy. If you care about Israelis, Jews, and dare I say it, other people in general, you should re-examine the decades-old propaganda that obviously failed to produce a durable peace.

Israeli Arabs have voting rights, hater.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Pretty soon we will have spent more time and energy condemning Ilhan Omar for her statements that aren't actually anti-semitic, than we did condemning Steve King for numerous statements that actually were white supremacist.

And, yet, Steve King was removed from his committee assignments quite promptly while there seems to be no consideration of removing Omar despite the fact that many find her comments anti-semitic.

They find her comments anti-semitic but aren't able to articulate a case for why. I have yet to see that happen in this thread, for example. And if you can't explain why you believe a thing other than some vague unarticulatable feeling, or to base it only on what some other pundit or talking head else said, then how solid of an argument do you actually have?

You really aren't making a compelling argument here.

Rahm Emanuel explains why in an article in the Atlantic.

[jsteele]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The issue with Omar's comments is she questioned the loyalty of Americans who support Israel and claimed politicians only support Israel because of big money paid to them by a powerful Jewish lobby.
She cannot see that the support has everything to do with the fact that Israel is the only democracy in the Middle East that supports Western values and is surrounded by nations that would like to wipe Israel off the map.

Wrong, everyone sees that Israel is a democracy and that it's surrounded by hostile nations. But that said, Israel being a democracy and being surrounded by hostile nations still doesn't justify Israel shooting children and journalists, violating UN agreements, building illegal settlements and other things, nor does it justify Americans and American politicians turning a blind eye to all of that, and apparently you don't see that. Israel doesn't *have* to continue those policies in order to survive and succeed. And to deny that AIPAC isn't a powerful lobby and that they throw a lot of money around is simply not credible as it's right in AIPAC's FEC and lobbying filings. There is nothing wrong let alone anti-semitic with stating those kinds of things, as Ilhan Omar has.

That Israel is a democracy is massively more dubious than assumed here. It makes a point of disenfranchising millions: Israeli Arabs, West Bank Palestinians, and millions of expelled refugees (including those in Gaza)...Some of us are old enough to remember South Africa pulling the same "only democracy" routine because it allowed elections for a select few.

After decades of always getting their way, Israel's supporters have become seriously sloppy. If you care about Israelis, Jews, and dare I say it, other people in general, you should re-examine the decades-old propaganda that obviously failed to produce a durable peace.

Israeli Arabs have voting rights, hater.

Just today:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/israeli-electoral-committee-bans-arab-candidates-allows-extreme-right-to-run/2019/03/07/9ecd3dd4-40c4-11e9-9361-301ffb5bd5e6_story.html

"Israeli electoral committee bans Arab candidates, allows extreme right to run".

[Anonymous]

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The issue with Omar's comments is she questioned the loyalty of Americans who support Israel and claimed politicians only support Israel because of big money paid to them by a powerful Jewish lobby.
She cannot see that the support has everything to do with the fact that Israel is the only democracy in the Middle East that supports Western values and is surrounded by nations that would like to wipe Israel off the map.

Wrong, everyone sees that Israel is a democracy and that it's surrounded by hostile nations. But that said, Israel being a democracy and being surrounded by hostile nations still doesn't justify Israel shooting children and journalists, violating UN agreements, building illegal settlements and other things, nor does it justify Americans and American politicians turning a blind eye to all of that, and apparently you don't see that. Israel doesn't *have* to continue those policies in order to survive and succeed. And to deny that AIPAC isn't a powerful lobby and that they throw a lot of money around is simply not credible as it's right in AIPAC's FEC and lobbying filings. There is nothing wrong let alone anti-semitic with stating those kinds of things, as Ilhan Omar has.

That Israel is a democracy is massively more dubious than assumed here. It makes a point of disenfranchising millions: Israeli Arabs, West Bank Palestinians, and millions of expelled refugees (including those in Gaza)...Some of us are old enough to remember South Africa pulling the same "only democracy" routine because it allowed elections for a select few.

After decades of always getting their way, Israel's supporters have become seriously sloppy. If you care about Israelis, Jews, and dare I say it, other people in general, you should re-examine the decades-old propaganda that obviously failed to produce a durable peace.

Israeli Arabs have voting rights, hater.

Just today:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/israeli-electoral-committee-bans-arab-candidates-allows-extreme-right-to-run/2019/03/07/9ecd3dd4-40c4-11e9-9361-301ffb5bd5e6_story.html

"Israeli electoral committee bans Arab candidates, allows extreme right to run".

Apparently they support terror.

[jsteele]

Three Democratic Presidential Nomination candidates have issued statements about the controversy:

Bernie Sanders:

Anti-Semitism is a hateful and dangerous ideology which must be vigorously opposed in the United States and around the world. We must not, however, equate anti-Semitism with legitimate criticism of the right-wing, Netanyahu government in Israel. Rather, we must develop an even-handed Middle East policy which brings Israelis and Palestinians together for a lasting peace. What I fear is going on in the House now is an effort to target Congresswoman Omar as a way of stifling that debate. That’s wrong.


Elizabeth Warren:

We have a moral duty to combat hateful ideologies in our own country and around the world -- and that includes both anti-Semitism and Islamophobia. In a democracy, we can and should have an open, respectful debate about the Middle East that focuses on policy. Branding criticism of Israel as automatically anti-Semitic has a chilling effect on our public discourse and makes it harder to achieve a peaceful solution between Israelis and Palestinians. Threats of violence -- like those made against Rep. Omar -- are never acceptable.

Kamala Harris:

We all have a responsibility to speak out against anti-Semitism, Islamophobia, homophobia, transphobia, racism, and all forms of hatred and bigotry, especially as we see a spike in hate crimes in America. But like some of my colleagues in the Congressional Black Caucus, I am concerned that the spotlight being put on Congresswoman Omar may put her at risk. We should be having a sound, respectful discussion about policy. You can both support Israel and be loyal to our country. I also believe there is a difference between criticism of policy or political leaders, and anti-Semitism. At the end of the day, we need a two-state solution and a commitment to peace, human rights and democracy by all leaders in the region -- and a commitment by our country to help achieve that.

[Anonymous]

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The issue with Omar's comments is she questioned the loyalty of Americans who support Israel and claimed politicians only support Israel because of big money paid to them by a powerful Jewish lobby.
She cannot see that the support has everything to do with the fact that Israel is the only democracy in the Middle East that supports Western values and is surrounded by nations that would like to wipe Israel off the map.

Wrong, everyone sees that Israel is a democracy and that it's surrounded by hostile nations. But that said, Israel being a democracy and being surrounded by hostile nations still doesn't justify Israel shooting children and journalists, violating UN agreements, building illegal settlements and other things, nor does it justify Americans and American politicians turning a blind eye to all of that, and apparently you don't see that. Israel doesn't *have* to continue those policies in order to survive and succeed. And to deny that AIPAC isn't a powerful lobby and that they throw a lot of money around is simply not credible as it's right in AIPAC's FEC and lobbying filings. There is nothing wrong let alone anti-semitic with stating those kinds of things, as Ilhan Omar has.

That Israel is a democracy is massively more dubious than assumed here. It makes a point of disenfranchising millions: Israeli Arabs, West Bank Palestinians, and millions of expelled refugees (including those in Gaza)...Some of us are old enough to remember South Africa pulling the same "only democracy" routine because it allowed elections for a select few.

After decades of always getting their way, Israel's supporters have become seriously sloppy. If you care about Israelis, Jews, and dare I say it, other people in general, you should re-examine the decades-old propaganda that obviously failed to produce a durable peace.

Israeli Arabs have voting rights, hater.

Just today:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/israeli-electoral-committee-bans-arab-candidates-allows-extreme-right-to-run/2019/03/07/9ecd3dd4-40c4-11e9-9361-301ffb5bd5e6_story.html

"Israeli electoral committee bans Arab candidates, allows extreme right to run".

From Jewish Virtual Library:

Hadash (Hebrew acronym for “The Democratic Front for Peace and Equality”) is a left-wing party that, when formed in March 1977, was rooted in Israel’s Communist party (Maki), the Black Panthers, and other left-wing non-communist groups. Hadash is a Jewish and Arab party, but has a mainly Arab constituency.

[jsteele]

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The issue with Omar's comments is she questioned the loyalty of Americans who support Israel and claimed politicians only support Israel because of big money paid to them by a powerful Jewish lobby.
She cannot see that the support has everything to do with the fact that Israel is the only democracy in the Middle East that supports Western values and is surrounded by nations that would like to wipe Israel off the map.

Wrong, everyone sees that Israel is a democracy and that it's surrounded by hostile nations. But that said, Israel being a democracy and being surrounded by hostile nations still doesn't justify Israel shooting children and journalists, violating UN agreements, building illegal settlements and other things, nor does it justify Americans and American politicians turning a blind eye to all of that, and apparently you don't see that. Israel doesn't *have* to continue those policies in order to survive and succeed. And to deny that AIPAC isn't a powerful lobby and that they throw a lot of money around is simply not credible as it's right in AIPAC's FEC and lobbying filings. There is nothing wrong let alone anti-semitic with stating those kinds of things, as Ilhan Omar has.

That Israel is a democracy is massively more dubious than assumed here. It makes a point of disenfranchising millions: Israeli Arabs, West Bank Palestinians, and millions of expelled refugees (including those in Gaza)...Some of us are old enough to remember South Africa pulling the same "only democracy" routine because it allowed elections for a select few.

After decades of always getting their way, Israel's supporters have become seriously sloppy. If you care about Israelis, Jews, and dare I say it, other people in general, you should re-examine the decades-old propaganda that obviously failed to produce a durable peace.

Israeli Arabs have voting rights, hater.

Just today:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/israeli-electoral-committee-bans-arab-candidates-allows-extreme-right-to-run/2019/03/07/9ecd3dd4-40c4-11e9-9361-301ffb5bd5e6_story.html

"Israeli electoral committee bans Arab candidates, allows extreme right to run".

Apparently they support terror.

No they don't. The right-wing, ethnic-cleansing supporters who dominate the committee just used that as an excuse.

[Anonymous]

jsteele wrote:Three Democratic Presidential Nomination candidates have issued statements about the controversy:

Bernie Sanders:

Anti-Semitism is a hateful and dangerous ideology which must be vigorously opposed in the United States and around the world. We must not, however, equate anti-Semitism with legitimate criticism of the right-wing, Netanyahu government in Israel. Rather, we must develop an even-handed Middle East policy which brings Israelis and Palestinians together for a lasting peace. What I fear is going on in the House now is an effort to target Congresswoman Omar as a way of stifling that debate. That’s wrong.


Elizabeth Warren:

We have a moral duty to combat hateful ideologies in our own country and around the world -- and that includes both anti-Semitism and Islamophobia. In a democracy, we can and should have an open, respectful debate about the Middle East that focuses on policy. Branding criticism of Israel as automatically anti-Semitic has a chilling effect on our public discourse and makes it harder to achieve a peaceful solution between Israelis and Palestinians. Threats of violence -- like those made against Rep. Omar -- are never acceptable.

Kamala Harris:

We all have a responsibility to speak out against anti-Semitism, Islamophobia, homophobia, transphobia, racism, and all forms of hatred and bigotry, especially as we see a spike in hate crimes in America. But like some of my colleagues in the Congressional Black Caucus, I am concerned that the spotlight being put on Congresswoman Omar may put her at risk. We should be having a sound, respectful discussion about policy. You can both support Israel and be loyal to our country. I also believe there is a difference between criticism of policy or political leaders, and anti-Semitism. At the end of the day, we need a two-state solution and a commitment to peace, human rights and democracy by all leaders in the region -- and a commitment by our country to help achieve that.

In other words, Kamala fears that calling out anti-Semitism (or bigotry, or racism) is putting the anti-Semite (or bigot or racist) at risk.