Are Middle Easterners considered to be 'white'?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My Mother’s (85) ancestry is Syrian-Lebanese and Turkish…but so many generations ago that this distinction has been largely forgotten (first generation changed the family surname) in the interest of integrating, gaining employment and not facing discrimination.

It was very important to my ancestors to “pass” and census records have them recorded as White. Therefore, White we are and pretty much always have been.

My family, like so many, need to have an “I can explain” or asterisk next to the box or at least a few lines where we can include an interesting narrative!

And that is why many Middle Easterners are reluctant to being called "white." If being white was as simple as just being literally white, then Middle Easterners would be fine with being called "white." However, being "white" also has cultural and social implications that do not capture Middle Easterners well. Being white is associated with having privilege, and imagine telling some Afghan Pashtun or Iraqi kid that they're privileged even though the US invaded and bombed their countries on the grounds that they're "other."

Further, Middle Easterners are proud of their culture, and people who change their names and lose their language, etc are seen as whitewashed. Among Middle Easterners, this is very popular along Lebanese and Syrian Christians/Jews, some of whom won't even call themselves "Arab." I think that Iranian-Americans are a good example of a what well assimilated Middle Eastern population that still keeps in touch with their culture looks like. Iranians in America are very secular, educated, and integrated on average, and yet they also don't change their names to western names, most parents enroll their kids in Farsi classes, and they are all very knowledgeable about their history and culture. I've even met many half Iranians who can speak, read, and write Farsi and have Persian names.

Not only that, but we are seriously lacking important data on Middle Eastern populations in the United States because of how they're classified. We don't have any statistics on them in schools, politics, healthcare, etc, so if there are any disparities they face, there is no way we would know. Walt Whitman HS in MoCo has a ton of Iranian and Afghan students, to the point where I wouldn't be surprised if Middle Eastern students are at least 5-10% of the school's "white" population, but we don't have any stats on their academic performance, barriers they may face, etc

As Russia did to Ukraine

When Russia invaded Ukraine, the entire western world supported Ukraine and suddenly every country could take endless refugees. News reporters specifically said that they're not like other refugees because they're "civilized," "European-looking with blonde hair and blue eyes," and "not like Syrian and Afghan kids." When America invaded Afghanistan, islamaphobia skyrocketed in the United States, entire villages full of women and children were wiped off the map in rural provinces, soldiers raped/killed/raided civilians, and a plethora of uninvestigated and unreported war crimes were committed. Clearly Afghans have "white" privilege when their fellow whites from the western world abandoned the country and left 90% of its inhabitants starving and bleeding over wars they didn't start. If Afghans, Syrians, Palestinians, and Iraqis were treated the same as Ukrainians, none of them would think twice about being classified as "white."

[Anonymous]

And even now, Middle Easterners who are protesting pro-LGBTQ+ policy in schools are being told "go back to your country" by leftists, while the white right-wing Christians from Moms of Liberty aren't told that. People have specifically been honing in bigotry coming from Muslim parents and implying that they are the only bad ones doing this and that they don't belong here.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don’t consider Italians as white

I don’t think Italians are one race.

Italians are the white Europeans.

Europe is a place not a race. Southern Italians and Siclians genetically cluster closer to Levantine Arabs and other West Asians than they do to all Europeans besides Greeks and southern balkanites. They're just as close to Lebanese and Syrian people genetically as they are to Northern Italians.

Asia is a place not a race?

Africa is a place not a race?

Should everyone get to put down their 23 and me statistics?

You're just proving my point about how ignoring western notions of race are. Of course Africa is a place and not a race. Are Tunisians, Algerians, Moroccans, Nigerians, Ghanians, etc all the same race?

It's very obvious that Mediterraneans--regardless of whether they're from Africa, "Europe," or "Asia" all share a great degree of looks, ancestry, culture, architecture, food, and history. It doesn't take a 23andme test or rocket science to realize this. All it takes is visiting countries in the Mediterranean. Are you implying that Italians and Greeks are more similar to Finnish people and Swedes than to Lebanese people and Tunisians?

Europe is a fake continent that "westerners" drew in Eurasia to divide the Muslims and other "eastern" cultures from "western" cultures. It had no significant meaning historically, culturally, ancestrally, etc until Europeans forged relations with each other more recently via the EU.

Where I lived growing up, I knew several families whose ancestors had come to the US from northern Italy. They were all very adamant that they were not at all the same as the more recent immigrant families from southern Italy. This was at a time that The Godfather movies were popular and they were making the point that the organized crime portrayed in the movie was from southern Italy, which they implied was practically a different country from where they were from.

But reading this, I realize that those northern Italian families looked very different from the southern Italian families I knew, and looking at a map, I can see that people living in northern italy probably mixed and intermarried more with the French, Swiss, Germans, and Austrians than they did with people from the Mediterranean countries. So, they probably did have a different genetic background.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Depends on their religion. If Muslim, no. If Christian, yes (unless Palestinian). If Jewish, yes except by white supremacists.

-Christian Middle Easterner who is always read as white

You’re delusional!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don’t consider Italians as white

I don’t think Italians are one race.

Italians are the white Europeans.

Europe is a place not a race. Southern Italians and Siclians genetically cluster closer to Levantine Arabs and other West Asians than they do to all Europeans besides Greeks and southern balkanites. They're just as close to Lebanese and Syrian people genetically as they are to Northern Italians.

Asia is a place not a race?

Africa is a place not a race?

Should everyone get to put down their 23 and me statistics?

You're just proving my point about how ignoring western notions of race are. Of course Africa is a place and not a race. Are Tunisians, Algerians, Moroccans, Nigerians, Ghanians, etc all the same race?

It's very obvious that Mediterraneans--regardless of whether they're from Africa, "Europe," or "Asia" all share a great degree of looks, ancestry, culture, architecture, food, and history. It doesn't take a 23andme test or rocket science to realize this. All it takes is visiting countries in the Mediterranean. Are you implying that Italians and Greeks are more similar to Finnish people and Swedes than to Lebanese people and Tunisians?

Europe is a fake continent that "westerners" drew in Eurasia to divide the Muslims and other "eastern" cultures from "western" cultures. It had no significant meaning historically, culturally, ancestrally, etc until Europeans forged relations with each other more recently via the EU.

Where I lived growing up, I knew several families whose ancestors had come to the US from northern Italy. They were all very adamant that they were not at all the same as the more recent immigrant families from southern Italy. This was at a time that The Godfather movies were popular and they were making the point that the organized crime portrayed in the movie was from southern Italy, which they implied was practically a different country from where they were from.

But reading this, I realize that those northern Italian families looked very different from the southern Italian families I knew, and looking at a map, I can see that people living in northern italy probably mixed and intermarried more with the French, Swiss, Germans, and Austrians than they did with people from the Mediterranean countries. So, they probably did have a different genetic background.

This used to be the widespread belief in the United States as well. Nowadays, Italian-Americans are very mixed with Irish-Americans, and because of that, they often look whiter than Italians straight out of southern Italy, so it's easier for people to call Italians white people. A lot of half Lebanese Christian half Irish Catholic people are the same way, but they're not as common as Irish-Italian mixed people are.

I also know some Jewish-Americans who are shocked when people say they have Middle Eastern ancestry and believe that they are just Russians, Poles, Ukrainians, Germans, Austrians, Lithuanians, etc with a Jewish religion. Yet, when people describe stereotypical Jewish features, they sound a lot more Middle Eastern than Slavic or Germanic (thick, dark, and curly hair; prominent noses, bigger eyes, etc) and you can totally place Zelensky anywhere in the Middle East from Turkey to Afghanistan without anyone noticing he isn't a local.

[Anonymous]

No. They are brown.

[Anonymous]

What difference does it make?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Are white and caucasian the same?

Are people from the Middle East, like Iran, Iraq, Syria, etc considered to be 'white' by the general world population?

People from the Middle East are privileged and extremely rich, so they are definitely not people of color.

Since they are not BIPOC, they are white.

Maybe you should take a tour of yemen, Syria, Lebanon, Palestine, Jordan, right now just so you can see their extreme wealth and privilege.

[Anonymous]

I don't feel white as an arab, but the government says I am.

I think this all began over 100 years ago when only "whites" were allowed to come to the U.S., and whether arabs were "white" was litigated. But 100 year old litigation or a box on a form cannot define my everyday reality.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Are white and caucasian the same?

Are people from the Middle East, like Iran, Iraq, Syria, etc considered to be 'white' by the general world population?

People from the Middle East are privileged and extremely rich, so they are definitely not people of color.

Since they are not BIPOC, they are white.

No. Iranians who immigrated here after the fall of the Shah are very rich. Everyone else is a mixed bag.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Muslim Middle Easterners are Muslim and white. They do not fall into the “brown” category because of their religion.

Jews are also subject to harassment/discrimination but are not ‘brown’ because of it. They are still considered white.

No, it's not this simple. Many Muslim and Jewish Middle Easterners ARE brown. And even if they have white skin, they are often "othered". I'm a light-skinned Jew and trust me, I was never considered white until about twenty years ago, and even now, I am only considered white by certain people. I am not "brown" obviously, but I do not identify as white. I identify as a Jew (which has nothing to do with religious belief, as I am an atheist).

I understand how YOU identify yourself, but identity is also about how others perceive you. Light skinned Jew? You are most certainly received as white by the public.

Except that people ask me every day where I'm from. People usually think I'm from somewhere in Latin America or the Middle East. And yes, those people are are considered white if they have "white features", but they're also not considered white by a lot of the public.

You're correct that identity is how others perceive you, and many people do not consider Latinos, Middle Easterners, Jews and others white, regardless of the color of their skin.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Are white and caucasian the same?

Are people from the Middle East, like Iran, Iraq, Syria, etc considered to be 'white' by the general world population?

People from the Middle East are privileged and extremely rich, so they are definitely not people of color.

Since they are not BIPOC, they are white.

No. Iranians who immigrated here after the fall of the Shah are very rich. Everyone else is a mixed bag.

Even those aren't necessarily rich. My ex's very rich family was imprisoned and exiled after the fall of the Shah. They came with nothing.

[Anonymous]

Not by white peopl

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Not by white peopl

They are white to actual brown people.