Why do some care about rules about gay people but ignore rule about shrimp, rape, and stoning women?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:An article about salvation by faith alone, which seems to be the doctrine held by most Protestant denominations. Catholics, of course, believe in salvation by faith and works (both, not just works).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sola_fide

I know several Episcopalian ministers who disagree with this and say that a “good” in the sense of “Christ-like” person who doesn’t know Jesus can get into heaven.

Even if this were good theology, which it's not, does anyone here have any real idea how high the bar is for "Chirst-likeness"? You want to hang your hat on being able to achieve THAT?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

I'm not aware of any Christian denomination that preaches "salvation through works alone." It's either just through faith (aka acceptance of Jesus as your Lord and Savior), or through faith and works.

BTW -- I'm not Christian at all, but I'm just arguing that what you're saying isn't consistent with Christianity. Sure I believe a lot of religious traditions have legitimate ways of accessing the spiritual realm (which I don't believe involves communion with a Judeo-Christian God), but Christianity sure doesn't preach that.

No. That is not true.

It's not true that Christians believe the only way to God is through Jesus? Then what, exactly, do Christians mean when they say "Jesus Christ is our Lord and Savior"?

NP. Plenty of Christians believe in salvation through works. The debate about “works vs. faith” has gone on for centuries, which should tell you that there have always been many Christians who think it’s about works. That’s why some (most?) of the mainline Protestant denominations believe that someone who doesn’t know Jesus but lives a “Christ-like” life can get into heaven. Jesus showed us how to live, and that’s how he “saved” mankind.

I'm unaware of any Christian denomination that says you can have salvation by works alone. I thought it was either by faith alone or by faith and works.

Jesus didn't just give a good example of how to be a good person. You have to accept Jesus as your Lord and Savior (and, according to some but not all Christian denominations, be a good person) to get into heaven. Anyone who says otherwise is just misunderstanding what Christianity says about salvation.

I’m so tired of non-Christians telling us what they think we should believe....

You're upset that I'm suggesting Christianity is, in large part, accepting Jesus Christ as your Lord and Savior? You're upset that I'm pointing out that salvation by works alone isn't a thing?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The entire point of Christianity is relationship with Jesus. Everything- good works, salvation, heaven, flows through that. It is not just some abstract concept of belief.

iow -- get a relationship with Jesus, goddammit, if you ever expect to get to heaven.

Well, if you don’t want to have a relationship with Jesus, you don’t have to. “Heaven,” is not really the goal, relationship with Jesus is. Heaven is only MORE relationship with Jesus, forever and ever.

So if you are not Christian, there is no reason for you to WANT Christian heaven. We don’t know what the alternative is. We assume “Hell” is a place of eternal suffering, but I don’t see a solid Biblical description of what that means. In the Bible “death” and “Hell” are sort of used interchangeably. Perhaps if you don’t believe, you die, and that is the end of the story.

But the point is that, according to Christian doctrine, if you don't accept Jesus as your Lord and Savior, you are not going to have as enjoyable of an afterlife as those who do. Communion with God is supposed to be better than being distant from God.

You can be a non-Christian and not care about Christian heaven, but if Christians are right, your afterlife will be worse than those who accepted Jesus, whether you think you care about Christian heaven or not.

No- according to Christians, if you do not have a relationship with Jesus, EVERY moment of your existence will be worse- from this exact moment until the end of eternity. Heaven is communion with Jesus- the better your relationship with Jesus in this exact moment, the better your present will be. You can have heaven on Earth if you truly want it. Whether you are dead or not is largely irrelevant. Jesus is alive, right now, and if you reject him, you are automatically worse off than you would be if you had a relationship with him. That is how I was taught about Christianity.

You are automatically worse off because you judge others.

I’m not judging; I’m explaining a point of doctrine and you are seemingly desperate to read judgement into it.

If I said “everyone would be better off with an extra 100k of savings,” is that a judgement on people who don’t save? Or simply a statement of what I believe would be good? Is saying “vegetables are a healthy food” a judgement on people who hate vegetables? No. I don’t particularly care what you do.

Saying... "they bible says X is a sin" is "explaining doctrine" (as you understand it, since you did not interpret it from it's original text).

Saying... people go to Hell or don't go to heaven because of "your understanding of the bible" is judgement.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The entire point of Christianity is relationship with Jesus. Everything- good works, salvation, heaven, flows through that. It is not just some abstract concept of belief.

iow -- get a relationship with Jesus, goddammit, if you ever expect to get to heaven.

Well, if you don’t want to have a relationship with Jesus, you don’t have to. “Heaven,” is not really the goal, relationship with Jesus is. Heaven is only MORE relationship with Jesus, forever and ever.

So if you are not Christian, there is no reason for you to WANT Christian heaven. We don’t know what the alternative is. We assume “Hell” is a place of eternal suffering, but I don’t see a solid Biblical description of what that means. In the Bible “death” and “Hell” are sort of used interchangeably. Perhaps if you don’t believe, you die, and that is the end of the story.

But the point is that, according to Christian doctrine, if you don't accept Jesus as your Lord and Savior, you are not going to have as enjoyable of an afterlife as those who do. Communion with God is supposed to be better than being distant from God.

You can be a non-Christian and not care about Christian heaven, but if Christians are right, your afterlife will be worse than those who accepted Jesus, whether you think you care about Christian heaven or not.

No- according to Christians, if you do not have a relationship with Jesus, EVERY moment of your existence will be worse- from this exact moment until the end of eternity. Heaven is communion with Jesus- the better your relationship with Jesus in this exact moment, the better your present will be. You can have heaven on Earth if you truly want it. Whether you are dead or not is largely irrelevant. Jesus is alive, right now, and if you reject him, you are automatically worse off than you would be if you had a relationship with him. That is how I was taught about Christianity.

You are automatically worse off because you judge others.

I’m not judging; I’m explaining a point of doctrine and you are seemingly desperate to read judgement into it.

If I said “everyone would be better off with an extra 100k of savings,” is that a judgement on people who don’t save? Or simply a statement of what I believe would be good? Is saying “vegetables are a healthy food” a judgement on people who hate vegetables? No. I don’t particularly care what you do.

Saying... "they bible says X is a sin" is "explaining doctrine" (as you understand it, since you did not interpret it from it's original text).

Saying... people go to Hell or don't go to heaven because of "your understanding of the bible" is judgement.

Where did I say anybody was “going to Hell?” It’s not my call to make! Jesus makes life better- that is Christianity as I know it. If you disagree, move along. Fixating on whether some religion you don’t believe in considers you doomed is unhealthy.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The entire point of Christianity is relationship with Jesus. Everything- good works, salvation, heaven, flows through that. It is not just some abstract concept of belief.

iow -- get a relationship with Jesus, goddammit, if you ever expect to get to heaven.

Well, if you don’t want to have a relationship with Jesus, you don’t have to. “Heaven,” is not really the goal, relationship with Jesus is. Heaven is only MORE relationship with Jesus, forever and ever.

So if you are not Christian, there is no reason for you to WANT Christian heaven. We don’t know what the alternative is. We assume “Hell” is a place of eternal suffering, but I don’t see a solid Biblical description of what that means. In the Bible “death” and “Hell” are sort of used interchangeably. Perhaps if you don’t believe, you die, and that is the end of the story.

But the point is that, according to Christian doctrine, if you don't accept Jesus as your Lord and Savior, you are not going to have as enjoyable of an afterlife as those who do. Communion with God is supposed to be better than being distant from God.

You can be a non-Christian and not care about Christian heaven, but if Christians are right, your afterlife will be worse than those who accepted Jesus, whether you think you care about Christian heaven or not.

No- according to Christians, if you do not have a relationship with Jesus, EVERY moment of your existence will be worse- from this exact moment until the end of eternity. Heaven is communion with Jesus- the better your relationship with Jesus in this exact moment, the better your present will be. You can have heaven on Earth if you truly want it. Whether you are dead or not is largely irrelevant. Jesus is alive, right now, and if you reject him, you are automatically worse off than you would be if you had a relationship with him. That is how I was taught about Christianity.

You are automatically worse off because you judge others.

I’m not judging; I’m explaining a point of doctrine and you are seemingly desperate to read judgement into it.

If I said “everyone would be better off with an extra 100k of savings,” is that a judgement on people who don’t save? Or simply a statement of what I believe would be good? Is saying “vegetables are a healthy food” a judgement on people who hate vegetables? No. I don’t particularly care what you do.

Saying... "they bible says X is a sin" is "explaining doctrine" (as you understand it, since you did not interpret it from it's original text).

Saying... people go to Hell or don't go to heaven because of "your understanding of the bible" is judgement.

Where did I say anybody was “going to Hell?” It’s not my call to make! Jesus makes life better- that is Christianity as I know it. If you disagree, move along. Fixating on whether some religion you don’t believe in considers you doomed is unhealthy.

Yes you do. You mention how to get to heaven and salvation throughout your post.

Funny how badly it will go down for you when judgement day comes for you.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

I'm not aware of any Christian denomination that preaches "salvation through works alone." It's either just through faith (aka acceptance of Jesus as your Lord and Savior), or through faith and works.

BTW -- I'm not Christian at all, but I'm just arguing that what you're saying isn't consistent with Christianity. Sure I believe a lot of religious traditions have legitimate ways of accessing the spiritual realm (which I don't believe involves communion with a Judeo-Christian God), but Christianity sure doesn't preach that.

No. That is not true.

It's not true that Christians believe the only way to God is through Jesus? Then what, exactly, do Christians mean when they say "Jesus Christ is our Lord and Savior"?

NP. Plenty of Christians believe in salvation through works. The debate about “works vs. faith” has gone on for centuries, which should tell you that there have always been many Christians who think it’s about works. That’s why some (most?) of the mainline Protestant denominations believe that someone who doesn’t know Jesus but lives a “Christ-like” life can get into heaven. Jesus showed us how to live, and that’s how he “saved” mankind.

I'm unaware of any Christian denomination that says you can have salvation by works alone. I thought it was either by faith alone or by faith and works.

Jesus didn't just give a good example of how to be a good person. You have to accept Jesus as your Lord and Savior (and, according to some but not all Christian denominations, be a good person) to get into heaven. Anyone who says otherwise is just misunderstanding what Christianity says about salvation.

I’m so tired of non-Christians telling us what they think we should believe....

You're upset that I'm suggesting Christianity is, in large part, accepting Jesus Christ as your Lord and Savior? You're upset that I'm pointing out that salvation by works alone isn't a thing?

This is false. The Pope has said even atheists can get into heaven. As far as "salvation," salvation from what?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The entire point of Christianity is relationship with Jesus. Everything- good works, salvation, heaven, flows through that. It is not just some abstract concept of belief.

iow -- get a relationship with Jesus, goddammit, if you ever expect to get to heaven.

Well, if you don’t want to have a relationship with Jesus, you don’t have to. “Heaven,” is not really the goal, relationship with Jesus is. Heaven is only MORE relationship with Jesus, forever and ever.

So if you are not Christian, there is no reason for you to WANT Christian heaven. We don’t know what the alternative is. We assume “Hell” is a place of eternal suffering, but I don’t see a solid Biblical description of what that means. In the Bible “death” and “Hell” are sort of used interchangeably. Perhaps if you don’t believe, you die, and that is the end of the story.

But the point is that, according to Christian doctrine, if you don't accept Jesus as your Lord and Savior, you are not going to have as enjoyable of an afterlife as those who do. Communion with God is supposed to be better than being distant from God.

You can be a non-Christian and not care about Christian heaven, but if Christians are right, your afterlife will be worse than those who accepted Jesus, whether you think you care about Christian heaven or not.

No- according to Christians, if you do not have a relationship with Jesus, EVERY moment of your existence will be worse- from this exact moment until the end of eternity. Heaven is communion with Jesus- the better your relationship with Jesus in this exact moment, the better your present will be. You can have heaven on Earth if you truly want it. Whether you are dead or not is largely irrelevant. Jesus is alive, right now, and if you reject him, you are automatically worse off than you would be if you had a relationship with him. That is how I was taught about Christianity.

You are automatically worse off because you judge others.

I’m not judging; I’m explaining a point of doctrine and you are seemingly desperate to read judgement into it.

If I said “everyone would be better off with an extra 100k of savings,” is that a judgement on people who don’t save? Or simply a statement of what I believe would be good? Is saying “vegetables are a healthy food” a judgement on people who hate vegetables? No. I don’t particularly care what you do.

Saying... "they bible says X is a sin" is "explaining doctrine" (as you understand it, since you did not interpret it from it's original text).

Saying... people go to Hell or don't go to heaven because of "your understanding of the bible" is judgement.

Where did I say anybody was “going to Hell?” It’s not my call to make! Jesus makes life better- that is Christianity as I know it. If you disagree, move along. Fixating on whether some religion you don’t believe in considers you doomed is unhealthy.

Yes you do. You mention how to get to heaven and salvation throughout your post.

Funny how badly it will go down for you when judgement day comes for you.

Please bold where I say anyone is going to “hell.” That can’t be too hard, can it?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

I'm not aware of any Christian denomination that preaches "salvation through works alone." It's either just through faith (aka acceptance of Jesus as your Lord and Savior), or through faith and works.

BTW -- I'm not Christian at all, but I'm just arguing that what you're saying isn't consistent with Christianity. Sure I believe a lot of religious traditions have legitimate ways of accessing the spiritual realm (which I don't believe involves communion with a Judeo-Christian God), but Christianity sure doesn't preach that.

No. That is not true.

It's not true that Christians believe the only way to God is through Jesus? Then what, exactly, do Christians mean when they say "Jesus Christ is our Lord and Savior"?

NP. Plenty of Christians believe in salvation through works. The debate about “works vs. faith” has gone on for centuries, which should tell you that there have always been many Christians who think it’s about works. That’s why some (most?) of the mainline Protestant denominations believe that someone who doesn’t know Jesus but lives a “Christ-like” life can get into heaven. Jesus showed us how to live, and that’s how he “saved” mankind.

I'm unaware of any Christian denomination that says you can have salvation by works alone. I thought it was either by faith alone or by faith and works.

Jesus didn't just give a good example of how to be a good person. You have to accept Jesus as your Lord and Savior (and, according to some but not all Christian denominations, be a good person) to get into heaven. Anyone who says otherwise is just misunderstanding what Christianity says about salvation.

I’m so tired of non-Christians telling us what they think we should believe....

You're upset that I'm suggesting Christianity is, in large part, accepting Jesus Christ as your Lord and Savior? You're upset that I'm pointing out that salvation by works alone isn't a thing?

This is false. The Pope has said even atheists can get into heaven. As far as "salvation," salvation from what?

Only a fraction of Christians follow the pope.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

I'm not aware of any Christian denomination that preaches "salvation through works alone." It's either just through faith (aka acceptance of Jesus as your Lord and Savior), or through faith and works.

BTW -- I'm not Christian at all, but I'm just arguing that what you're saying isn't consistent with Christianity. Sure I believe a lot of religious traditions have legitimate ways of accessing the spiritual realm (which I don't believe involves communion with a Judeo-Christian God), but Christianity sure doesn't preach that.

No. That is not true.

It's not true that Christians believe the only way to God is through Jesus? Then what, exactly, do Christians mean when they say "Jesus Christ is our Lord and Savior"?

NP. Plenty of Christians believe in salvation through works. The debate about “works vs. faith” has gone on for centuries, which should tell you that there have always been many Christians who think it’s about works. That’s why some (most?) of the mainline Protestant denominations believe that someone who doesn’t know Jesus but lives a “Christ-like” life can get into heaven. Jesus showed us how to live, and that’s how he “saved” mankind.

I'm unaware of any Christian denomination that says you can have salvation by works alone. I thought it was either by faith alone or by faith and works.

Jesus didn't just give a good example of how to be a good person. You have to accept Jesus as your Lord and Savior (and, according to some but not all Christian denominations, be a good person) to get into heaven. Anyone who says otherwise is just misunderstanding what Christianity says about salvation.

I’m so tired of non-Christians telling us what they think we should believe....

You're upset that I'm suggesting Christianity is, in large part, accepting Jesus Christ as your Lord and Savior? You're upset that I'm pointing out that salvation by works alone isn't a thing?

This is false. The Pope has said even atheists can get into heaven. As far as "salvation," salvation from what?

Only a fraction of Christians follow the pope.

You all are really questioning that salvation is part of your religion? What do you think it means when you say Jesus is your Lord and Savior?

Why are you so resistant to the core tenets of your religion?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

I'm not aware of any Christian denomination that preaches "salvation through works alone." It's either just through faith (aka acceptance of Jesus as your Lord and Savior), or through faith and works.

BTW -- I'm not Christian at all, but I'm just arguing that what you're saying isn't consistent with Christianity. Sure I believe a lot of religious traditions have legitimate ways of accessing the spiritual realm (which I don't believe involves communion with a Judeo-Christian God), but Christianity sure doesn't preach that.

No. That is not true.

It's not true that Christians believe the only way to God is through Jesus? Then what, exactly, do Christians mean when they say "Jesus Christ is our Lord and Savior"?

NP. Plenty of Christians believe in salvation through works. The debate about “works vs. faith” has gone on for centuries, which should tell you that there have always been many Christians who think it’s about works. That’s why some (most?) of the mainline Protestant denominations believe that someone who doesn’t know Jesus but lives a “Christ-like” life can get into heaven. Jesus showed us how to live, and that’s how he “saved” mankind.

I'm unaware of any Christian denomination that says you can have salvation by works alone. I thought it was either by faith alone or by faith and works.

Jesus didn't just give a good example of how to be a good person. You have to accept Jesus as your Lord and Savior (and, according to some but not all Christian denominations, be a good person) to get into heaven. Anyone who says otherwise is just misunderstanding what Christianity says about salvation.

I’m so tired of non-Christians telling us what they think we should believe....

You're upset that I'm suggesting Christianity is, in large part, accepting Jesus Christ as your Lord and Savior? You're upset that I'm pointing out that salvation by works alone isn't a thing?

This is false. The Pope has said even atheists can get into heaven. As far as "salvation," salvation from what?

Only a fraction of Christians follow the pope.

ah, so a schism within the faith? A theological dispute? Not surprising. Still I think the Pope is probably more of an authority on Christianity than you are.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

I'm not aware of any Christian denomination that preaches "salvation through works alone." It's either just through faith (aka acceptance of Jesus as your Lord and Savior), or through faith and works.

BTW -- I'm not Christian at all, but I'm just arguing that what you're saying isn't consistent with Christianity. Sure I believe a lot of religious traditions have legitimate ways of accessing the spiritual realm (which I don't believe involves communion with a Judeo-Christian God), but Christianity sure doesn't preach that.

No. That is not true.

It's not true that Christians believe the only way to God is through Jesus? Then what, exactly, do Christians mean when they say "Jesus Christ is our Lord and Savior"?

NP. Plenty of Christians believe in salvation through works. The debate about “works vs. faith” has gone on for centuries, which should tell you that there have always been many Christians who think it’s about works. That’s why some (most?) of the mainline Protestant denominations believe that someone who doesn’t know Jesus but lives a “Christ-like” life can get into heaven. Jesus showed us how to live, and that’s how he “saved” mankind.

I'm unaware of any Christian denomination that says you can have salvation by works alone. I thought it was either by faith alone or by faith and works.

Jesus didn't just give a good example of how to be a good person. You have to accept Jesus as your Lord and Savior (and, according to some but not all Christian denominations, be a good person) to get into heaven. Anyone who says otherwise is just misunderstanding what Christianity says about salvation.

I’m so tired of non-Christians telling us what they think we should believe....

You're upset that I'm suggesting Christianity is, in large part, accepting Jesus Christ as your Lord and Savior? You're upset that I'm pointing out that salvation by works alone isn't a thing?

This is false. The Pope has said even atheists can get into heaven. As far as "salvation," salvation from what?

Only a fraction of Christians follow the pope.

You all are really questioning that salvation is part of your religion? What do you think it means when you say Jesus is your Lord and Savior?

Why are you so resistant to the core tenets of your religion?

Who are you talking to? Savior from what, how?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

I'm not aware of any Christian denomination that preaches "salvation through works alone." It's either just through faith (aka acceptance of Jesus as your Lord and Savior), or through faith and works.

BTW -- I'm not Christian at all, but I'm just arguing that what you're saying isn't consistent with Christianity. Sure I believe a lot of religious traditions have legitimate ways of accessing the spiritual realm (which I don't believe involves communion with a Judeo-Christian God), but Christianity sure doesn't preach that.

No. That is not true.

It's not true that Christians believe the only way to God is through Jesus? Then what, exactly, do Christians mean when they say "Jesus Christ is our Lord and Savior"?

NP. Plenty of Christians believe in salvation through works. The debate about “works vs. faith” has gone on for centuries, which should tell you that there have always been many Christians who think it’s about works. That’s why some (most?) of the mainline Protestant denominations believe that someone who doesn’t know Jesus but lives a “Christ-like” life can get into heaven. Jesus showed us how to live, and that’s how he “saved” mankind.

I'm unaware of any Christian denomination that says you can have salvation by works alone. I thought it was either by faith alone or by faith and works.

Jesus didn't just give a good example of how to be a good person. You have to accept Jesus as your Lord and Savior (and, according to some but not all Christian denominations, be a good person) to get into heaven. Anyone who says otherwise is just misunderstanding what Christianity says about salvation.

I’m so tired of non-Christians telling us what they think we should believe....

You're upset that I'm suggesting Christianity is, in large part, accepting Jesus Christ as your Lord and Savior? You're upset that I'm pointing out that salvation by works alone isn't a thing?

This is false. The Pope has said even atheists can get into heaven. As far as "salvation," salvation from what?

Only a fraction of Christians follow the pope.

ah, so a schism within the faith? A theological dispute? Not surprising. Still I think the Pope is probably more of an authority on Christianity than you are.

If the Pope made an authoritative statement, then there should be a Biblical and theological basis for it. So, what is it? How do atheists get into Heaven, according to the Pope? What is Heaven, if not communion with Christ, and how could an atheist have it?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

I'm not aware of any Christian denomination that preaches "salvation through works alone." It's either just through faith (aka acceptance of Jesus as your Lord and Savior), or through faith and works.

BTW -- I'm not Christian at all, but I'm just arguing that what you're saying isn't consistent with Christianity. Sure I believe a lot of religious traditions have legitimate ways of accessing the spiritual realm (which I don't believe involves communion with a Judeo-Christian God), but Christianity sure doesn't preach that.

No. That is not true.

It's not true that Christians believe the only way to God is through Jesus? Then what, exactly, do Christians mean when they say "Jesus Christ is our Lord and Savior"?

NP. Plenty of Christians believe in salvation through works. The debate about “works vs. faith” has gone on for centuries, which should tell you that there have always been many Christians who think it’s about works. That’s why some (most?) of the mainline Protestant denominations believe that someone who doesn’t know Jesus but lives a “Christ-like” life can get into heaven. Jesus showed us how to live, and that’s how he “saved” mankind.

I'm unaware of any Christian denomination that says you can have salvation by works alone. I thought it was either by faith alone or by faith and works.

Jesus didn't just give a good example of how to be a good person. You have to accept Jesus as your Lord and Savior (and, according to some but not all Christian denominations, be a good person) to get into heaven. Anyone who says otherwise is just misunderstanding what Christianity says about salvation.

I’m so tired of non-Christians telling us what they think we should believe....

You're upset that I'm suggesting Christianity is, in large part, accepting Jesus Christ as your Lord and Savior? You're upset that I'm pointing out that salvation by works alone isn't a thing?

This is false. The Pope has said even atheists can get into heaven. As far as "salvation," salvation from what?

Only a fraction of Christians follow the pope.

ah, so a schism within the faith? A theological dispute? Not surprising. Still I think the Pope is probably more of an authority on Christianity than you are.

If the Pope made an authoritative statement, then there should be a Biblical and theological basis for it. So, what is it? How do atheists get into Heaven, according to the Pope? What is Heaven, if not communion with Christ, and how could an atheist have it?

Yeah I'll take the actual bible over the pope any day.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

I'm not aware of any Christian denomination that preaches "salvation through works alone." It's either just through faith (aka acceptance of Jesus as your Lord and Savior), or through faith and works.

BTW -- I'm not Christian at all, but I'm just arguing that what you're saying isn't consistent with Christianity. Sure I believe a lot of religious traditions have legitimate ways of accessing the spiritual realm (which I don't believe involves communion with a Judeo-Christian God), but Christianity sure doesn't preach that.

No. That is not true.

It's not true that Christians believe the only way to God is through Jesus? Then what, exactly, do Christians mean when they say "Jesus Christ is our Lord and Savior"?

NP. Plenty of Christians believe in salvation through works. The debate about “works vs. faith” has gone on for centuries, which should tell you that there have always been many Christians who think it’s about works. That’s why some (most?) of the mainline Protestant denominations believe that someone who doesn’t know Jesus but lives a “Christ-like” life can get into heaven. Jesus showed us how to live, and that’s how he “saved” mankind.

I'm unaware of any Christian denomination that says you can have salvation by works alone. I thought it was either by faith alone or by faith and works.

Jesus didn't just give a good example of how to be a good person. You have to accept Jesus as your Lord and Savior (and, according to some but not all Christian denominations, be a good person) to get into heaven. Anyone who says otherwise is just misunderstanding what Christianity says about salvation.

I’m so tired of non-Christians telling us what they think we should believe....

You're upset that I'm suggesting Christianity is, in large part, accepting Jesus Christ as your Lord and Savior? You're upset that I'm pointing out that salvation by works alone isn't a thing?

This is false. The Pope has said even atheists can get into heaven. As far as "salvation," salvation from what?

Only a fraction of Christians follow the pope.

You all are really questioning that salvation is part of your religion? What do you think it means when you say Jesus is your Lord and Savior?

Why are you so resistant to the core tenets of your religion?

Who are you talking to? Savior from what, how?

"Salvation in Christianity, or deliverance, is the saving of the soul from sin and its consequences."

It's the ultimate goal of living, according to Christianity. You have faith in Jesus as your Lord and Savior and--at least according to Catholics--do good, Christian work for your fellow man, and hopefully your soul will be saved and you'll go to heaven.

This is pretty basic stuff. Why are you acting as though I'm talking about something obscure?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salvation_in_Christianity

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I'm not aware of any Christian denomination that preaches "salvation through works alone." It's either just through faith (aka acceptance of Jesus as your Lord and Savior), or through faith and works.

BTW -- I'm not Christian at all, but I'm just arguing that what you're saying isn't consistent with Christianity. Sure I believe a lot of religious traditions have legitimate ways of accessing the spiritual realm (which I don't believe involves communion with a Judeo-Christian God), but Christianity sure doesn't preach that.

No. That is not true.

It's not true that Christians believe the only way to God is through Jesus? Then what, exactly, do Christians mean when they say "Jesus Christ is our Lord and Savior"?

NP. Plenty of Christians believe in salvation through works. The debate about “works vs. faith” has gone on for centuries, which should tell you that there have always been many Christians who think it’s about works. That’s why some (most?) of the mainline Protestant denominations believe that someone who doesn’t know Jesus but lives a “Christ-like” life can get into heaven. Jesus showed us how to live, and that’s how he “saved” mankind.

I'm unaware of any Christian denomination that says you can have salvation by works alone. I thought it was either by faith alone or by faith and works.

Jesus didn't just give a good example of how to be a good person. You have to accept Jesus as your Lord and Savior (and, according to some but not all Christian denominations, be a good person) to get into heaven. Anyone who says otherwise is just misunderstanding what Christianity says about salvation.

I’m so tired of non-Christians telling us what they think we should believe....

You're upset that I'm suggesting Christianity is, in large part, accepting Jesus Christ as your Lord and Savior? You're upset that I'm pointing out that salvation by works alone isn't a thing?

This is false. The Pope has said even atheists can get into heaven. As far as "salvation," salvation from what?

Only a fraction of Christians follow the pope.

ah, so a schism within the faith? A theological dispute? Not surprising. Still I think the Pope is probably more of an authority on Christianity than you are.

If the Pope made an authoritative statement, then there should be a Biblical and theological basis for it. So, what is it? How do atheists get into Heaven, according to the Pope? What is Heaven, if not communion with Christ, and how could an atheist have it?

Yeah I'll take the actual bible over the pope any day.

Except the problem is, if you're Catholic, the Pope's word is supposed to be infallible, so you can't exactly dismiss what he has to say.