Travel Soccer teams around NOVA let's discuss Part II

[Anonymous]

So here's a question, what good does it do a player to be in the DA or ECNL, if she doesn't even get to play?

For example, on the Wash Spirit VA U14 team, they have 24 players listed as FT academy players on their official roster (ussoccerda website), but only 18 of them can be on the roster for each game. That means 6 players stay home every weekend.

The BRYC U14 ECNL team has 21 on the roster, but only brought 18 to their game against McLean this weekend, so 3 stayed home. No idea how many of the 18 actually got meaningful minutes (the DA site lists things like that, so you can see that everyone who made the Spirit game day roster got at least 25 minutes).

FCV is only slightly better, only leaving 2 players off the roster every week.

Does that seem crazy to anyone else, or am I just being "soft"? I mean, I get the idea that players that age shouldn't be coddled, need to learn to compete for starting spots, earn their minutes, and all that. But not playing at all? At 13 years old? What's the point?

I wonder if these clubs were open and honest about the way things would be before accepting player commitments for the season. Did the parents know what they were getting into when they dropped those $5000 checks in the mail?

VDA and MCLN both have about 17 total on their roster. 6 subs is still a lot (especially in the DA, where there's no re-entry), but that seems a lot more reasonable.

[Anonymous]

Spirit Va DA U14 have atleast 4 U14s that play on U15 every game. So very few kids sit out. Just FYI.

[Anonymous]

FCV doesn't list there DPs...Spirit does.

FCV doesn't play their DPs. Spirit does.

As far as development..Spirit greater then FCV

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Just wondering people's thoughts on blowouts in travel soccer. Is it appropriate for the other team to run up the score.

In Rec, the coaches get a lot of grief from the league for blowouts where the score is more than 6 goals apart. But in travel, since it is travel (and top teams) do different rules apply?

They shouldn't, but we have seen many, many complete blowouts in regular season play with not too much attempt to damper them.

When my husband coached, he would have the kids complete a long set of passes before anyone was allowed to shoot---or only use non-dominant foot. Kids were played out of position---goalie at striker, etc.

I've seen it backfire and become more humiliating---like when every kid on the winning side is saying really loudly 'guys we can't score, etc'. OR--kids going right up to opposing goal and then turning around and dribbling back.

At the littlest ages---there should be some type of mercy rule.

IN TOURNAMENT PLAY---completely different standard since goal differential is important. But---tournaments are, for the most part, better matched up teams.

A few things to do:

1. Quit pressing on goal kicks. At U9 and U10, you can't do this any more, anyway, which is good. I saw games get completely out of hand because one team simply didn't have a goalkeeper or defender who could get the ball past the other team's attackers. In my travel soccer experience, the parents understood this problem -- the COACHES did not.

2. Put players in different positions. No need for your star striker to be playing striker when it's 9-1 and he already has his hat trick.

But the PP is right -- don't make it painfully obvious. I once coached a rec game against a coach who was yelling constantly at his team to use their left feet and pass several times. And it wasn't even a blowout. It was just 1-2 goals. Chill, dude.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:So here's a question, what good does it do a player to be in the DA or ECNL, if she doesn't even get to play?

For example, on the Wash Spirit VA U14 team, they have 24 players listed as FT academy players on their official roster (ussoccerda website), but only 18 of them can be on the roster for each game. That means 6 players stay home every weekend.

The BRYC U14 ECNL team has 21 on the roster, but only brought 18 to their game against McLean this weekend, so 3 stayed home. No idea how many of the 18 actually got meaningful minutes (the DA site lists things like that, so you can see that everyone who made the Spirit game day roster got at least 25 minutes).

FCV is only slightly better, only leaving 2 players off the roster every week.

Does that seem crazy to anyone else, or am I just being "soft"? I mean, I get the idea that players that age shouldn't be coddled, need to learn to compete for starting spots, earn their minutes, and all that. But not playing at all? At 13 years old? What's the point?

I wonder if these clubs were open and honest about the way things would be before accepting player commitments for the season. Did the parents know what they were getting into when they dropped those $5000 checks in the mail?

VDA and MCLN both have about 17 total on their roster. 6 subs is still a lot (especially in the DA, where there's no re-entry), but that seems a lot more reasonable.

I think you are ignoring a couple of additional factors that are relevant in roster sizes at least for ECNL -- injuries and high school soccer. Typically there will be 2-3 players on the roster that are not fit to play on any given weekend due to short term or long term injuries.

In addition, at least on ECNL teams, there are typically a few girls who are also playing high school soccer. Many high schools will play 3 games per week in season. So a responsible coach will not play a girl in ECNL games on Saturday and/or Sunday if the girl has already played high school games on Tuesday, Thursday and Friday of that same week.

In other words, the roster may list 21-22 players, but only 17 may actually be fit and appropriate to play on any given weekend.

I do agree however that if your kid goes a whole season never playing much at all on one of these elite teams then it is time to reconsider whether it is the best situation.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Just wondering people's thoughts on blowouts in travel soccer. Is it appropriate for the other team to run up the score.

In Rec, the coaches get a lot of grief from the league for blowouts where the score is more than 6 goals apart. But in travel, since it is travel (and top teams) do different rules apply?

They shouldn't, but we have seen many, many complete blowouts in regular season play with not too much attempt to damper them.

When my husband coached, he would have the kids complete a long set of passes before anyone was allowed to shoot---or only use non-dominant foot. Kids were played out of position---goalie at striker, etc.

I've seen it backfire and become more humiliating---like when every kid on the winning side is saying really loudly 'guys we can't score, etc'. OR--kids going right up to opposing goal and then turning around and dribbling back.

At the littlest ages---there should be some type of mercy rule.

IN TOURNAMENT PLAY---completely different standard since goal differential is important. But---tournaments are, for the most part, better matched up teams.

A few things to do:

1. Quit pressing on goal kicks. At U9 and U10, you can't do this any more, anyway, which is good. I saw games get completely out of hand because one team simply didn't have a goalkeeper or defender who could get the ball past the other team's attackers. In my travel soccer experience, the parents understood this problem -- the COACHES did not.

2. Put players in different positions. No need for your star striker to be playing striker when it's 9-1 and he already has his hat trick.

But the PP is right -- don't make it painfully obvious. I once coached a rec game against a coach who was yelling constantly at his team to use their left feet and pass several times. And it wasn't even a blowout. It was just 1-2 goals. Chill, dude.

This is coddling, it is entirely acceptable that if a team recognizes a weak team, or more so weak defender, that they will press on goal kicks and when GK has the ball to force a defender to lose the ball. What you should do is at practice work passing, moving, support and getting out of the back line. Other than dribbling, all of the drills/games should be focused on possession. This forces the players to always look for options, how to make firm passes, and where to move to support your teammates. I often see when the GK plays out to a RB, CB, LB, the midfielders and a forwards spring up the field as if there was someone chasing them. It leaves the defenders having to make an(impossible at U9-U10) overhead pass or dribble along the touchline or towards the middle to catch up to their teammates. This is how the idea that pressing was not a good idea to allow the kiddos to do. They way you learn to play from the back is by having pressure put on you as a defender, having to release the ball quickly and overlap or 1-2. Allowing players to receive the pass, and then have time to look up and scan and maybe take a few more touches will not build good players. They will in turn lose possession where it counts in the middle of the pitch.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:FCV doesn't list there DPs...Spirit does.

FCV doesn't play their DPs. Spirit does.

As far as development..Spirit greater then FCV

I'm not that familiar with how either club is handling developmental players so I'm hoping you can provide some more support (especially in light of another(?) Spirit parent who was a little loose with the facts).

First, I assume you have to be affiliated with the team to know who's a DP as it doesn't seem to be listed on the DA website. If that's the case, that would explain why you know who's a DP at Spirit but then how do you know who's a DP at FCV, or if they even have any? And do you know if all the Spirit teams have DPs? My assumption would be that FCV doesn't have designated DPs yet but if any of there B team players step up, they might get rostered for some games as a DP.

Second, on the boys side and I thought on the girls side as well, DPs could only play in just a few games a year. Given that the season is only 3 weeks old, how can you say definitively that the DPs at FCV (assuming there are any) won't be allowed to play?

Third, how do your first two statements prove your last statement? Are you suggesting that development is better for Spirit's DP-level players because they'll get to play more? If so, wouldn't that also mean that the regular team players will develop less because they'll be playing less in order to give minutes to the DP players? All in all, it seems a wash. Or is your third statement unrelated to the first two and you're just throwing it out there as a statement of fact because that's where your kid is playing?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:FCV doesn't list there DPs...Spirit does.

FCV doesn't play their DPs. Spirit does.

As far as development..Spirit greater then FCV

I'm not that familiar with how either club is handling developmental players so I'm hoping you can provide some more support (especially in light of another(?) Spirit parent who was a little loose with the facts).

First, I assume you have to be affiliated with the team to know who's a DP as it doesn't seem to be listed on the DA website. If that's the case, that would explain why you know who's a DP at Spirit but then how do you know who's a DP at FCV, or if they even have any? And do you know if all the Spirit teams have DPs? My assumption would be that FCV doesn't have designated DPs yet but if any of there B team players step up, they might get rostered for some games as a DP.

Second, on the boys side and I thought on the girls side as well, DPs could only play in just a few games a year. Given that the season is only 3 weeks old, how can you say definitively that the DPs at FCV (assuming there are any) won't be allowed to play?

Third, how do your first two statements prove your last statement? Are you suggesting that development is better for Spirit's DP-level players because they'll get to play more? If so, wouldn't that also mean that the regular team players will develop less because they'll be playing less in order to give minutes to the DP players? All in all, it seems a wash. Or is your third statement unrelated to the first two and you're just throwing it out there as a statement of fact because that's where your kid is playing?

The ussoccerda website does indicate whether a player is full time or not. Some clubs may not list all of their DPs, but full time academy players are clearly indicated by the "FT" designation on the roster.

DPs can only play in 6 DA games during the year, without moving them to full time status. Once they are FT, US Soccer requires that they get a start in at least 25% of the games (U15 & below I think).

DPs can play for other teams. FT players cannot.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So here's a question, what good does it do a player to be in the DA or ECNL, if she doesn't even get to play?

For example, on the Wash Spirit VA U14 team, they have 24 players listed as FT academy players on their official roster (ussoccerda website), but only 18 of them can be on the roster for each game. That means 6 players stay home every weekend.

The BRYC U14 ECNL team has 21 on the roster, but only brought 18 to their game against McLean this weekend, so 3 stayed home. No idea how many of the 18 actually got meaningful minutes (the DA site lists things like that, so you can see that everyone who made the Spirit game day roster got at least 25 minutes).

FCV is only slightly better, only leaving 2 players off the roster every week.

Does that seem crazy to anyone else, or am I just being "soft"? I mean, I get the idea that players that age shouldn't be coddled, need to learn to compete for starting spots, earn their minutes, and all that. But not playing at all? At 13 years old? What's the point?

I wonder if these clubs were open and honest about the way things would be before accepting player commitments for the season. Did the parents know what they were getting into when they dropped those $5000 checks in the mail?

VDA and MCLN both have about 17 total on their roster. 6 subs is still a lot (especially in the DA, where there's no re-entry), but that seems a lot more reasonable.

I think you are ignoring a couple of additional factors that are relevant in roster sizes at least for ECNL -- injuries and high school soccer. Typically there will be 2-3 players on the roster that are not fit to play on any given weekend due to short term or long term injuries.

In addition, at least on ECNL teams, there are typically a few girls who are also playing high school soccer. Many high schools will play 3 games per week in season. So a responsible coach will not play a girl in ECNL games on Saturday and/or Sunday if the girl has already played high school games on Tuesday, Thursday and Friday of that same week.

In other words, the roster may list 21-22 players, but only 17 may actually be fit and appropriate to play on any given weekend.

I do agree however that if your kid goes a whole season never playing much at all on one of these elite teams then it is time to reconsider whether it is the best situation.

Good points. I hadn't considered the fact that HS soccer is still a factor for some of the ECNL girls.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Just wondering people's thoughts on blowouts in travel soccer. Is it appropriate for the other team to run up the score.

In Rec, the coaches get a lot of grief from the league for blowouts where the score is more than 6 goals apart. But in travel, since it is travel (and top teams) do different rules apply?

They shouldn't, but we have seen many, many complete blowouts in regular season play with not too much attempt to damper them.

When my husband coached, he would have the kids complete a long set of passes before anyone was allowed to shoot---or only use non-dominant foot. Kids were played out of position---goalie at striker, etc.

I've seen it backfire and become more humiliating---like when every kid on the winning side is saying really loudly 'guys we can't score, etc'. OR--kids going right up to opposing goal and then turning around and dribbling back.

At the littlest ages---there should be some type of mercy rule.

IN TOURNAMENT PLAY---completely different standard since goal differential is important. But---tournaments are, for the most part, better matched up teams.

A few things to do:

1. Quit pressing on goal kicks. At U9 and U10, you can't do this any more, anyway, which is good. I saw games get completely out of hand because one team simply didn't have a goalkeeper or defender who could get the ball past the other team's attackers. In my travel soccer experience, the parents understood this problem -- the COACHES did not.

2. Put players in different positions. No need for your star striker to be playing striker when it's 9-1 and he already has his hat trick.

But the PP is right -- don't make it painfully obvious. I once coached a rec game against a coach who was yelling constantly at his team to use their left feet and pass several times. And it wasn't even a blowout. It wa

It is just 1-2 goals. Chill, dude.

That might have been my husband because he was adamant kids would be ambidextrous by 8/9 with their feet. When you can only play with one foot when you are older, you are handicapped. Older kids have to wait and get the ball on their good foot and lose the shot. These aren't games in Kindergarten/first grade Rec they are for learning.

Flash forward to U11/12 and all of his former players can pass and shoot and receive equally as well with their weaker foot. If you miss the window on this and don't START trying that until 12--you'll never have it. He also made sure they were equally using each foot when juggling. With my U14 kid it is now painfully obvious which kids never developed their weaker foot or first touch.

These are not things most travel coaches bother with.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Spirit Va DA U14 have atleast 4 U14s that play on U15 every game. So very few kids sit out. Just FYI.

Thanks. I looked at the U15 game card and can see what you mean. Looks like they push a few players up each week. Will hurt their results but better for development, which is the only thing a pro academy should care about anyway.

Still think their roster is a little too big, but rotating 2-3 girls to be off each weak during a 25 game season is a lot different then 6-7 sitting out every week.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Spirit Va DA U14 have atleast 4 U14s that play on U15 every game. So very few kids sit out. Just FYI.

Thanks. I looked at the U15 game card and can see what you mean. Looks like they push a few players up each week. Will hurt their results but better for development, which is the only thing a pro academy should care about anyway.

Still think their roster is a little too big, but rotating 2-3 girls to be off each weak during a 25 game season is a lot different then 6-7 sitting out every week.

Im pretty sure Only 2 players sit out for the Spirit u14s...which is about the same as FCV. Spirit probably keeps a big roster because they have no "B" team.

I also believe that development is done in the 4 days a week training. A game is not the end all be all in development. So being with the best coaches is better then being on the best team for individual development...my opinion.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:So here's a question, what good does it do a player to be in the DA or ECNL, if she doesn't even get to play?

For example, on the Wash Spirit VA U14 team, they have 24 players listed as FT academy players on their official roster (ussoccerda website), but only 18 of them can be on the roster for each game. That means 6 players stay home every weekend.

The BRYC U14 ECNL team has 21 on the roster, but only brought 18 to their game against McLean this weekend, so 3 stayed home. No idea how many of the 18 actually got meaningful minutes (the DA site lists things like that, so you can see that everyone who made the Spirit game day roster got at least 25 minutes).

FCV is only slightly better, only leaving 2 players off the roster every week.

Does that seem crazy to anyone else, or am I just being "soft"? I mean, I get the idea that players that age shouldn't be coddled, need to learn to compete for starting spots, earn their minutes, and all that. But not playing at all? At 13 years old? What's the point?

I wonder if these clubs were open and honest about the way things would be before accepting player commitments for the season. Did the parents know what they were getting into when they dropped those $5000 checks in the mail?

VDA and MCLN both have about 17 total on their roster. 6 subs is still a lot (especially in the DA, where there's no re-entry), but that seems a lot more reasonable.

The whole US Soccer DA thing is supposed to place more focus on training than games. The substitution rules as well are all out front, so I think most families understand what they're getting into. It's still not fun to sit out, but at least they rotate the players through.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:FCV doesn't list there DPs...Spirit does.

FCV doesn't play their DPs. Spirit does.

As far as development..Spirit greater then FCV

You sound like a disenfranchised FCV parent.

In any event, its kinda premature to make all of these statements since US Soccer does not require clubs to identify DP's until they're ready to play. Not declaring them though, leaves the system open to abuse a bit, since unscrupulous TD's could potentially lock up a number of players by offering them DP spots with no intention to play them.

As for Spirit development being greater... lets see how the Spirit players improve from the start to the end of the season.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:FCV doesn't list there DPs...Spirit does.

FCV doesn't play their DPs. Spirit does.

As far as development..Spirit greater then FCV

You sound like a disenfranchised FCV parent.

In any event, its kinda premature to make all of these statements since US Soccer does not require clubs to identify DP's until they're ready to play. Not declaring them though, leaves the system open to abuse a bit, since unscrupulous TD's could potentially lock up a number of players by offering them DP spots with no intention to play them.

As for Spirit development being greater... lets see how the Spirit players improve from the start to the end of the season.

I think the point regarding "As far as development..Spirit greater then FCV" simply implies regarding to how DPs are being developed at Spirit vs FCV. How regularly are FCV DPs even practicing with the DA team?